Make a case -- for what you DO NOT believe

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This thread is basically for those who consider themselves "religious believers," of whatever sort. So, while I'm going to post it, and ask the question -- I obviously can't answer it, by my own rule.

A few years ago, I wrote a long (two post) essay on "Why I Am an Atheist." Given the definition of "atheist," that means I took on all of theism, and tried to explain why I did not believe it.

This is going to be easier for you. All I want you -- the theist -- to do is pick a belief that is held by many people (we can include children), but which you do NOT believe, and then make a case for why you don't believe it. Even better -- as atheists are often asked to do -- "prove" that the belief you don't hold is not true.

For sources, you can simply look at RF itself -- at all the various belief systems in place (try under "Discuss Individual Religions." The ones that say Jesus is God, and those that he is not. The one that says Muhammad is the last prophet, and the ones that admit newer prophets (Baha'i, Mormon, etc.) And if you don't choose one of those, go ahead and pick Santa, the Tooth Fairy (or any other species of fairy, elf, pixie, sprite, witch, demon, etc.) that you don't believe. Why, you could even pick the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

But the challenge is this (as the challenge has been made so often to atheists): make your best case for why that which you chose CAN NOT BE TRUE. Try to prove it wrong.

So, to clarify:

1. I cannot answer this thread -- I am not a believer in anything vaguely religious.
2. I am looking for responses from people who sincerely believe any religious precept -- I don't care which -- and can explain why some other religious precept cannot be true.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This is your chance to do real philosophy -- if you give it a real effort, you might find that you enjoy it.

 

[Suave]

This thread is basically for those who consider themselves "religious believers," of whatever sort. So, while I'm going to post it, and ask the question -- I obviously can't answer it, by my own rule.

A few years ago, I wrote a long (two post) essay on "Why I Am an Atheist." Given the definition of "atheist," that means I took on all of theism, and tried to explain why I did not believe it.

This is going to be easier for you. All I want you -- the theist -- to do is pick a belief that is held by many people (we can include children), but which you do NOT believe, and then make a case for why you don't believe it. Even better -- as atheists are often asked to do -- "prove" that the belief you don't hold is not true.

For sources, you can simply look at RF itself -- at all the various belief systems in place (try under "Discuss Individual Religions." The ones that say Jesus is God, and those that he is not. The one that says Muhammad is the last prophet, and the ones that admit newer prophets (Baha'i, Mormon, etc.) And if you don't choose one of those, go ahead and pick Santa, the Tooth Fairy (or any other species of fairy, elf, pixie, sprite, witch, demon, etc.) that you don't believe. Why, you could even pick the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

But the challenge is this (as the challenge has been made so often to atheists): make your best case for why that which you chose CAN NOT BE TRUE. Try to prove it wrong.

So, to clarify:

1. I cannot answer this thread -- I am not a believer in anything vaguely religious.
2. I am looking for responses from people who sincerely believe any religious precept -- I don't care which -- and can explain why some other religious precept cannot be true.

I seriously doubt the widely accepted notion of swimming too soon after eating a large meal causes stomach cramping.. I'm convinced swimming soon after having eaten a large meal does not really cause stomach cramps, because I didn't get any cramps at all upon having completed swimming 20 laps across an Olympic-sized swimming pool within 30 minutes of eating a large breakfast meal consisting of a cheese omelet, two average sized pancakes topped with butter and maple syrup, a large cinnamon roll a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice ,and a cup of coffee.

 

[Stevicus]

And if you don't choose one of those, go ahead and pick Santa, the Tooth Fairy (or any other species of fairy, elf, pixie, sprite, witch, demon, etc.) that you don't believe. Why, you could even pick the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It's close to Halloween, so what about the Great Pumpkin? I'd like to hear someone argue why they don't believe in the Great Pumpkin, as that's the only thing I do believe in.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's close to Halloween, so what about the Great Pumpkin? I'd like to hear someone argue why they don't believe in the Great Pumpkin, as that's the only thing I do believe in.

Linus? Is that you?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I do not believe time spent on social media (or forums) is well spent.

Why? There are a number of better ways to spend time.

Eating chocolate.

Taking a bath.

Putting a puzzle together.

Delivering meals on wheels.

Walking a quiet beach, with spouse. (Without a phone)

Smelling flowers in a garden.

Eating chocolate.

 

[Stevicus]

Linus? Is that you?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I do not believe time spent on social media (or forums) is well spent.

Why? There are a number of better ways to spend time.

Eating chocolate.

Taking a bath.

Putting a puzzle together.

Delivering meals on wheels.

Walking a quiet beach, with spouse. (Without a phone)

Smelling flowers in a garden.

Eating chocolate.

You missed one: eating chocolate.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think its wishful thinking which causes us to think that life evolved on other planets. I think its much more likely that we are on the only planet or one of very few where life has evolved. There is no hard evidence to the contrary -- only statistical wishing. In media there is a lot of speculation about other life in space. we have Star Trek for instance. We have numerous science fiction authors (such as R. Heinlein) suggesting that Earth must be only one of many...and always they use this as an argument that life on Earth is not special. Yes, that is their point. They typically say life on Earth is probably just a mote among motes, yet there is no proof. There is no proof that we are not alone as we seem to be.

Well...I think they are wrong and they wish that life on Earth was only a mote among motes. In fact what Science shows is that it is relatively hard to determine how biogenesis has arisen in our own solar system. If its hard to figure that out in a solar system teaming with life then what makes people think it is so obvious that life would evolve on other planets? Where is their confidence? Nowhere but in wishful thinking!

This is a special planet in a special solar system in a special galaxy in a special piece of the universe. We have not found life anywhere else in our solar system nor signs of evolved life anywhere yet. We've been looking with our telescopes, now, for over 40 years. Nothing.

 

[idea]

I am spiritual but not affiliated. I believe we are all connected, mixing together after we die, being pulled from the mixture at birth.

I do not believe we are separate beings, separate groups, separate beliefs. I believe we are all one.

 

[Aštra’el]

-I do not believe in “good” or “evil” people. All this reveals is how the person saying it feels about someone else’s actions/ beliefs/ lifestyle. I do not perceive myself as a good person, and I do not perceive myself as an evil person.

-I do not believe in “social and ethical responsibility”. I place the lives of myself, my family, and my friends above all others, but the rest I am for the most part indifferent to. There are exceptions.

-I do not believe in “right” or “wrong” behavior. There is lawful and unlawful behavior. This does not make it right or wrong. There is behavior that opens doors and builds bridges, and there is behavior that closes doors and burns bridges. This also does not make it right or wrong. There is behavior that acts in harmony with one’s immediate or long-term interests, and there is behavior that goes against one’s immediate or long-term interests. Again, not right or wrong.

When it comes to human behavior... “right” and “wrong” are simple, reductive words that lack clarity and context. Too often they are wielded by people who seek to control or influence the way I think and behave.

-I do not believe in equality. We each have our own strengths and weaknesses, whether developed, gifted, inherited, or ripped away from another. Being treated equally under the law is great, but that is something else entirely. No two humans are equal... and I will not pretend that we are.

-I do not believe in displaying unconditional love. I know people who naturally display this characteristic with no effort at all, and it can be a great strength... and a great weakness. I find it admirable when genuine, but it goes against my nature to display it myself.

- I do not believe in being happy. I pursue strength, progress, victory... and peace. Happiness can be comforting and euphoric... but it can also be stagnating and distracting. It opens up exploitable vulnerabilities, consumes time often better spent elsewhere, and can lead to some of the worst pain imaginable. I am most at peace when I feel nothing.

I would not say achieving my goals makes me “happy”, but that it gives me a sense of pride, a sense of purpose, and prevents me from ever feeling any regret at all.

The same can be said regarding the people I love. The people I care about do not induce in me a state of happiness... but that is on me and not them, and I truly value the warmth and illumination their fire brings to the darkness around me. They are bright lights in the night.

But the night is eternal, and the fires around me are fading. So I make myself burn brighter.

 

[We Never Know]

This thread is basically for those who consider themselves "religious believers," of whatever sort. So, while I'm going to post it, and ask the question -- I obviously can't answer it, by my own rule.

A few years ago, I wrote a long (two post) essay on "Why I Am an Atheist." Given the definition of "atheist," that means I took on all of theism, and tried to explain why I did not believe it.

This is going to be easier for you. All I want you -- the theist -- to do is pick a belief that is held by many people (we can include children), but which you do NOT believe, and then make a case for why you don't believe it. Even better -- as atheists are often asked to do -- "prove" that the belief you don't hold is not true.

For sources, you can simply look at RF itself -- at all the various belief systems in place (try under "Discuss Individual Religions." The ones that say Jesus is God, and those that he is not. The one that says Muhammad is the last prophet, and the ones that admit newer prophets (Baha'i, Mormon, etc.) And if you don't choose one of those, go ahead and pick Santa, the Tooth Fairy (or any other species of fairy, elf, pixie, sprite, witch, demon, etc.) that you don't believe. Why, you could even pick the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

But the challenge is this (as the challenge has been made so often to atheists): make your best case for why that which you chose CAN NOT BE TRUE. Try to prove it wrong.

So, to clarify:

1. I cannot answer this thread -- I am not a believer in anything vaguely religious.
2. I am looking for responses from people who sincerely believe any religious precept -- I don't care which -- and can explain why some other religious precept cannot be true.

Things I believe i'm good at....

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I was really hoping that a Christian might explain why she does not believe that God sent Mohammed to announce that Jesus was not really the Son of God, nor Gor neither -- or that a Muslim might explain the opposite. With sound justification, of course.

 

[sayak83]

This thread is basically for those who consider themselves "religious believers," of whatever sort. So, while I'm going to post it, and ask the question -- I obviously can't answer it, by my own rule.

A few years ago, I wrote a long (two post) essay on "Why I Am an Atheist." Given the definition of "atheist," that means I took on all of theism, and tried to explain why I did not believe it.

This is going to be easier for you. All I want you -- the theist -- to do is pick a belief that is held by many people (we can include children), but which you do NOT believe, and then make a case for why you don't believe it. Even better -- as atheists are often asked to do -- "prove" that the belief you don't hold is not true.

For sources, you can simply look at RF itself -- at all the various belief systems in place (try under "Discuss Individual Religions." The ones that say Jesus is God, and those that he is not. The one that says Muhammad is the last prophet, and the ones that admit newer prophets (Baha'i, Mormon, etc.) And if you don't choose one of those, go ahead and pick Santa, the Tooth Fairy (or any other species of fairy, elf, pixie, sprite, witch, demon, etc.) that you don't believe. Why, you could even pick the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

But the challenge is this (as the challenge has been made so often to atheists): make your best case for why that which you chose CAN NOT BE TRUE. Try to prove it wrong.

So, to clarify:

1. I cannot answer this thread -- I am not a believer in anything vaguely religious.
2. I am looking for responses from people who sincerely believe any religious precept -- I don't care which -- and can explain why some other religious precept cannot be true.

I do not believe in eternal hell based in the idea that it is immoral and "God" has to be moral by definition. Here is my case

1) Evil acts are evil in that they increase the amount of avoidable painful/suffering experiences of sentient beings.
2) The number of experiential moments that a mortal human or animal has on this earth is finite. The intensity of suffering experienced in each such momment is also finite (as beyond a point the experiencer will faint or die)
3) So the number of suffering experiences a being can feel in his/her life has a maximum upper limit.
4) Thus, number of suffering experiential moments that a mortal evil being can deliver to other mortal beings around him/her is also finite.
5) The total number of beings he/she can affect through evil acts throughout his finite life is also finite.
6) Hence the total amount of suffering and evil mortal can generate in a given life is finite.
7) Thus even in the primitive "eye for eye" concept of retributive justice, this evil person can only be justly delivered punishment that causes him to suffer the exact equal amount to which he has made others to suffer.
8) This amount is necessarily finite. Hence the punishment duration also has to be finite for it to be just.

Just made it in another thread related to Pascal's wager....

 

[Trailblazer]

This thread is basically for those who consider themselves "religious believers," of whatever sort. So, while I'm going to post it, and ask the question -- I obviously can't answer it, by my own rule.

A few years ago, I wrote a long (two post) essay on "Why I Am an Atheist." Given the definition of "atheist," that means I took on all of theism, and tried to explain why I did not believe it.

This is going to be easier for you. All I want you -- the theist -- to do is pick a belief that is held by many people (we can include children), but which you do NOT believe, and then make a case for why you don't believe it. Even better -- as atheists are often asked to do -- "prove" that the belief you don't hold is not true.

For sources, you can simply look at RF itself -- at all the various belief systems in place (try under "Discuss Individual Religions." The ones that say Jesus is God, and those that he is not. The one that says Muhammad is the last prophet, and the ones that admit newer prophets (Baha'i, Mormon, etc.) And if you don't choose one of those, go ahead and pick Santa, the Tooth Fairy (or any other species of fairy, elf, pixie, sprite, witch, demon, etc.) that you don't believe. Why, you could even pick the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

But the challenge is this (as the challenge has been made so often to atheists): make your best case for why that which you chose CAN NOT BE TRUE. Try to prove it wrong.

So, to clarify:

1. I cannot answer this thread -- I am not a believer in anything vaguely religious.
2. I am looking for responses from people who sincerely believe any religious precept -- I don't care which -- and can explain why some other religious precept cannot be true.

I do not believe in Christian doctrines such as original sin, that we are saved by grace alone, that Jesus is God, that Jesus rose from the dead, that Jesus is the only way to the Father, that all the other religions except Christianity are false, that the same Jesus is going to return to earth, and I do not believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell.. There is more but those are the main ones.

I do not believe that atheists are going to hell just because they do not believe in God. I believe that hell is reserved for people who commit evil deeds and has very little to do with beliefs or non-beliefs.

I do not believe that God is loving all the time as many Abrahamic believers believe.

I cannot prove what I don't believe, not anymore than I can prove what I do believe, because religious beliefs are not subject to proofs.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I do not believe in Christian doctrines such as original sin, that we are saved by grace alone, that Jesus is God, that Jesus rose from the dead, that Jesus is the only way to the Father, that all the other religions except Christianity are false, that the same Jesus is going to return to earth, and I do not believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell.. There is more but those are the main ones.

I do not believe that atheists are going to hell just because they do not believe in God. I believe that hell is reserved for people who commit evil deeds and has very little to do with beliefs or non-beliefs.

I do not believe that God is loving all the time as many Abrahamic believers believe.

I cannot prove what I don't believe, not anymore than I can prove what I do believe, because religious beliefs are not subject to proofs.

Great post! You don't have all the answers -- but you're honest about what you think. Thank you.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

You missed one: eating chocolate.

Darn
And that’s one of my favorites
I must be getting old