making a buddha

[Mr Cheese]

thoughts?

A Master saw a disciple who was very zealous in meditation. The Master said: “Virtuous one, what is your aim in practicing Zazen (meditation)?”
The disciple said: “My aim is to become a Buddha.”

Then the Master picked up a tile and began to polish it on a stone in front of the hermitage.

The disciple said: “What is the Master doing?”
The Master said: “I am polishing this tile to make it a mirror.”

The disciple said: “How can you make a mirror by polishing a tile?”
The Master replied: “How can you make a Buddha by practic­ing Zazen?"

 

[Willamena]

Realising Buddha.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The disciple ended up asking the very same question the Zen master put forth when he approached the disciple. The last question by the master is perfect transmission.

 

[koan]

One may only become Buddha by knowing the Buddha nature. Just sitting zazen wont do it.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

One may only become Buddha by knowing the Buddha nature. Just sitting zazen wont do it.

I agree, and if you WANT to become a Buddha then you've already failed before you start. You are supposed to want nothing to achieve a state of complete bliss. I'd argue, however, just coming from a Pure Land perspective, not everyone can become a Buddha. The Buddha also said: "Celebrate the birth of the Buddha. One such as the Buddha is not born everywhere." Some people can become Buddhas if they have the mind and personality for it by nature. You can find that Gautama was a very unusual individual, even before he became fully enlightened. The goal of the layperson is not to become a Buddha, it is to become a Bodhisattva. When a person realizes that the ultimate meaning of love and the dharma is to always think of others and help them, they will become a living Bodhisattva, and if their desire is to help others even after death, they will become an immortal Bodhisattva in death.

 

[no-body]

The goal of the layperson is not to become a Buddha, it is to become a Bodhisattva. When a person realizes that the ultimate meaning of love and the dharma is to always think of others and help them, they will become a living Bodhisattva, and if their desire is to help others even after death, they will become an immortal Bodhisattva in death.

I think the point of the parable is that everyone already has Buddha nature, it is just muddied. Zazen won't make you a Buddha (make a mirror) but it will help you think clearer (shine the mirror)

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Realising Buddha.

Yes Williamina, there is nothing new to be discovered in becoming a Buddha, it is just the realization of what already is.

Realization is a matter of becoming conscious of that which is already realized. - Ask the Awakened by Wei Wu Wei...

 

[The Rev]

Enlightenment is realizing that you are already enlightened.
:namaste

 

[wmjbyatt]

One may only become Buddha by knowing the Buddha nature. Just sitting zazen wont do it.

Yes it will. I'm not positive, but I think Dogen says in the Shobogenzo something along the lines of "shikantanza is satori itself" or some such, and it's true. Sitting zazen IS the Buddha nature, and it IS the realization of the Buddha nature, and it IS the thunder-clap of vision into the true nature of the world.

 

[internationalist]

Yes it will. I'm not positive, but I think Dogen says in the Shobogenzo something along the lines of "shikantanza is satori itself" or some such, and it's true. Sitting zazen IS the Buddha nature, and it IS the realization of the Buddha nature, and it IS the thunder-clap of vision into the true nature of the world.

I've come across 'sitting' but what exactly is it? Is it just sitting and thinking about whatever you want? Or, is it about directing your attention toward something?

 

[wmjbyatt]

I've come across 'sitting' but what exactly is it? Is it just sitting and thinking about whatever you want? Or, is it about directing your attention toward something?

It's just sitting. Seriously. That's it. Not sitting and zoning out. Not sitting and starting off into space. Not sitting and doing anything else. Just sitting.

That is what zazen is, that is what shikantanza is.

It can get more complex in talking about it, but in the end it reduces to exactly that. I think a pretty good working definition that avoids TOO much complexity is sitting down with a relaxed, open mind, paying attention to the world in a non-selective and unattached fashion. A lot of teachers teach their students--especially new ones--to do things like pay mindful attention to breathing while sitting zazen in order to discipline the mind into paying attention, and then they teach them to slowly break away from that mindful, focused attention into the generalized attention that is sitting at its purest.

So far as dealing with the fact that the vast majority of us simply don't know how to hold a relaxed, open, and empty mind is concerned, the usual advice I hear is to relax into your thoughts. Let them think fluidly. Don't force it towards emptiness, don't do a lot of the things (like focusing on an internal point of light and such) that other forms of meditation ask, just let it flow, and eventually it will settle into calm emptiness of its own accord.

 

[internationalist]

It's just sitting. Seriously. That's it. Not sitting and zoning out. Not sitting and starting off into space. Not sitting and doing anything else. Just sitting.

That is what zazen is, that is what shikantanza is.

It can get more complex in talking about it, but in the end it reduces to exactly that. I think a pretty good working definition that avoids TOO much complexity is sitting down with a relaxed, open mind, paying attention to the world in a non-selective and unattached fashion. A lot of teachers teach their students--especially new ones--to do things like pay mindful attention to breathing while sitting zazen in order to discipline the mind into paying attention, and then they teach them to slowly break away from that mindful, focused attention into the generalized attention that is sitting at its purest.

So far as dealing with the fact that the vast majority of us simply don't know how to hold a relaxed, open, and empty mind is concerned, the usual advice I hear is to relax into your thoughts. Let them think fluidly. Don't force it towards emptiness, don't do a lot of the things (like focusing on an internal point of light and such) that other forms of meditation ask, just let it flow, and eventually it will settle into calm emptiness of its own accord.

But the tendency of the mind is to think, right? - so if we sit down and do nothing, we're automatically going to think of something - people, things, events, anything. I am a little confused about this.

 

[koan]

Shikantaza itself is not Zazen. It is a form of Zazen. Also if your not into Sotoshu, then Shikantaza may not be for you.

 

[wmjbyatt]

Shikantaza itself is not Zazen. It is a form of Zazen.

If this is the case, I'd very much like a reference to material on the matter. Everything I can find on the matter equates Shikantanza to Zazen, and my personal study of the koans and various teisho--which has admittedly not been as intense as that of, say, a strong Rinzai disciple--says the same.

So far as I'm aware, the word "zazen" MEANS "sitting meditation," and "shikantanza" means the same. Admittedly, I'm relatively certain that most of the commentators that I've seen using the words interchangeably have been Soto priests.

Also if your not into Sotoshu, then Shikantaza may not be for you.

This is true. I went on a period for a while where I focused much more on koan study than my sitting. However, this does not change the fact that shikantanza is satori. Koan study is also satori, and sutra study is satori, and kinhin is satori. Hell, a damn good cup of tea is satori.

No matter how you structure it, though, my point holds: zazen--whether you mean explicitly "sitting meditation" or the general practice and study of Zen Buddhism--is satori, kensho, enlightenment, whatever. You don't make a Buddha. Only a dog's Buddha-nature makes a Buddha.

 

[koan]

Yes and no. You are right about Zazen meaning, "Sitting Meditation". However sitting doing Koan retrospection, is not Shikantaza. ergo, Shikantaza is a form of Zazen. Because Sotoshu consider sitting meditation with Shinkantaza, they don't consider other forms of sitting.

 

[wmjbyatt]

That makes sense, and is consistent with Dogen's insistence that shikantanza is zazen. And I suppose the Rinzai masters recognize shikantanza as a form of zazen, and that explains why my teisho collections use shikantanza so liberally.

Thank you for the education, koan.

 

[The Rev]

But the tendency of the mind is to think, right? - so if we sit down and do nothing, we're automatically going to think of something - people, things, events, anything. I am a little confused about this.

It's more like a habit of the mind. You can be aware without thinking, without attaching to arising thoughts. But it takes practice, and that is what meditation is for.
:namaste