Making my return.

[StarryNightshade]

Hello everyone, StarryNightshade here.

I had made this exact post in the "Virtual Ashram" sticky thread, but was informed that it would work better as it's own thread in the general DIR. Therefore, that is what I'm doing.

It's been a while since I've posted in this particular DIR. The reason being that I thought I no longer was a Hindu. I thought that what I believed didn't fit into Hindu dharma. Since I didn't identify with any traditional school, was never really one for excess ritual, and I even began to doubt if I even believed in God.

However, after months of searching, I feel the call back into the Sanatana Dharma. In fact, I wonder if I ever even left.

So what's different with me?

Firstly, I no longer consider Shiva to be the supreme God. I still hold him (and Ganesha) close to my heart and mind, but I don't necessarily believe them to be their own separate, conscious entities. However, I do believe that Brahman exists and is the foundation of all that we can know & observe. I also believe that the concept of Brahman can be known throughout other religions. Whether it is the Tao from Taoism or the Logos from Christianity. I think I'm a bit of a Universalist.

Secondly, while I still have Bhakti in general, I think that Karma Marga is what best describes my practice. Living in the moment, cultivating compassion, and good works help generate mindfulness. I guess that's where the Zen influence comes from.

Thirdly, I'm not Dvaitan, but I don't know if I really identify completely as a Advaitan either. Is there a concept that meets the two in the middle?

Finally, while the Vedas are the foundation of Hinduism, I find that the more I read the Upanishads, the more I understand myself and my perception of reality. I also remain agnostic to the concepts of reincarnation and an afterlife. I also believe in naturalistic cause and effect.

Well, I suppose that's it for now. See you around the DIR. :yes:

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Welcome back bro :3

 

[Breathe]

Thirdly, I'm not Dvaitan, but I don't know if I really identify completely as a Advaitan either. Is there a concept that meets the two in the middle?

What do you know about Dvaitadvaita, Vishistadvaita, and Acintya Bhedabheda?

 

[Vinayaka]

The only problem I have is with the universalism. Let me explain. First there is universalism, and then there is radical universalism. Within Hinduism we have a universalist school, namely the Smarta sampradaya. It combines Vaishnavism, Saivism, and Shaktism into a group, stating, 'it really doesn't matter' and I agree to that at a deeper level.

However, when it is extended to other religions outside of Hinduism, we run into conflicting beliefs, and they are aplenty. I'm okay with the Tao personally, as there are enough similarities. I'm not sure if Taoists would agree.

As far as Abrahamic faiths go, perhaps in a few very small and rarely practiced mystical sects, something like Brahman could be found. Maybe, just maybe, in Sufism, or in monastic traditions within Eastern Orthodoxy, something similar could be found. But that's a maybe. Saying it's there on the surface is one thing. (projection of one's belief onto others) A deeper look may well reveal substantial differences. We'd have to get the respective pontiffs or acharyas together and let them decide. I don't thin philosophical questions like that can be answered by laymen like us.

The original Smarta belief got extended along the way somewhere. I think it does a disservice to the other faiths when we project something onto them that doesn't exist. It's like telling them they're actually Hindus. Bit of an insult, if you ask me.

Now this isn't to say I hate anyone. It's just a matter of recognising the difference between a cat and a dog, and doing the study to support that.

So there are philosophical ideas that I believe are outside of Hinduism. Atheism, radical universalism, etc. I think discussions that include such ideas don't belong in the Hindu DIR, but in comparative, or same faith debates.

 

[StarryNightshade]

What do you know about Dvaitadvaita, Vishistadvaita, and Acintya Bhedabheda?

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Dvaitadavita similar to Panentheism? If so, that could be similar to what I believe.

However, Visthisadvaita (Advita with uniqueness) would probably be the closest to what I believe. Brahman (an infinite reality) with unique, representative characteristics (the Devas, Devis).

As for Acintya Bhedabheda, isn't that really only associated with Gaudiya?

 

[StarryNightshade]

As far as Abrahamic faiths go, perhaps in a few very small and rarely practiced mystical sects, something like Brahman could be found. Maybe, just maybe, in Sufism, or in monastic traditions within Eastern Orthodoxy, something similar could be found. But that's a maybe. Saying it's there on the surface is one thing. (projection of one's belief onto others) A deeper look may well reveal substantial differences. We'd have to get the respective pontiffs or acharyas together and let them decide. I don't thin philosophical questions like that can be answered by laymen like us.

When I mentioned Logos, I did have the Mystical aspects of Eastern Orthodoxy in mind. In fact, I find the idea of Brahman and their idea of Logos to be so similar that, if I were a Christian, I would probably be Eastern Orthodox.

And, yes, if one looks deep enough into the individual beliefs and practices, then they would find major differences. However, I'm not talking about practices. Just the idea of an infinite, absolute reality. Which, at least in mind opinion, Brahman, Logos, and the Tao are simply different names for essentially the same being.

However, I can also understand your point of view. Universalism can be overdone to the point that any particular path could potentially lose it's identity.

 

[Vinayaka]

Which, at least in mind opinion, Brahman, Logos, and the Tao are simply different names for essentially the same being.

I don't consider myself as having enough mystical insight to make such a determination. Therefore I go with .. "maybe, maybe not'. Besides, since I'm Hindu, and Hinduism satisfies my every need, there is no need for me to explore this.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste StarryNightshade

Sometimes I am not shy about making recommendations.

So in this case I am going to sort of make a leap if you will and do so. I admit I could be totally wrong, but while it looks like you are leaning towards a mayavadi bend with a twist of zen mixed into upanishadic carpet ride if you will, I want to recommend for you something entirely different but something tells me there is a slight chance it may work out marvelously for you.... Have you tried Shaktism?

I think Shakta and the Great Mother might be your forte. Check out with Mother Goddess and give it a try!

Is there a Devi Temple near you? Think of everything as The Mother.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Jainarayan]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Dvaitadavita similar to Panentheism? If so, that could be similar to what I believe.

However, Visthisadvaita (Advita with uniqueness) would probably be the closest to what I believe. Brahman (an infinite reality) with unique, representative characteristics (the Devas, Devis).

As for Acintya Bhedabheda, isn't that really only associated with Gaudiya?

I'm partial to vishishtadvaita, advaita w/ qualifications. As Wiki phrases it, all diversity subsuming to one reality. There is unquestionably diversity, but it is all one. I think achintya bhedabheda is Gaudiya's version of, and an answer to vishishtadvaita. That is, being the same yet different is inconceivable to the human mind. I am happy you are finding your way. You know I was a bit lost too, but some things resolve themselves.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Within Hinduism we have a universalist school, namely the Smarta sampradaya. It combines Vaishnavism, Saivism, and Shaktism into a group, stating, 'it really doesn't matter' and I agree to that at a deeper level.

However, when it is extended to other religions outside of Hinduism, we run into conflicting beliefs, and they are aplenty.

As far as Abrahamic faiths go, .. like that can be answered by laymen like us.

So there are philosophical ideas that I believe are outside of Hinduism. Atheism, radical universalism, etc. I think discussions that include such ideas don't belong in the Hindu DIR, but in comparative, or same faith debates.

Smarta is worship of various Hindu Gods and Goddesses. It does not say 'it does not matter'. Why should it be extended outside Hinduism? Hindus have nothing to do with Abrahamic religions. If there are ideas outside Hinduism, then let those outside people busy themselves with them. Atheism and universalism (of the Brahman variety) is well-within Hinduism. What the atheists from other religions do should not be the concern of Hindus. Beliefs of all Hindus do not have the same view and this position is accepted in Hinduism.

 

[Vinayaka]

Smarta is worship of various Hindu Gods and Goddesses. It does not say 'it does not matter'. Why should it be extended outside Hinduism?

I think you may have misunderstood. My point was that Smartas say it does not matter whether it is Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesha, Shakti, Surya, or Murugan. In other words, you have a choice of these 6. Saivites, on the other hand, don't view it as a choice.

I said that it should not be extended outside Hinduism. Unfortunately some modern teachers have, hence we have radical universalism.

 

[Poeticus]

First there is universalism, and then there is radical universalism. Within Hinduism we have a universalist school, namely the Smarta sampradaya. It combines Vaishnavism, Saivism, and Shaktism into a group, stating, 'it really doesn't matter' and I agree to that at a deeper level. However, when it is extended to other religions outside of Hinduism, we run into conflicting beliefs, and they are aplenty. I'm okay with the Tao personally, as there are enough similarities. I'm not sure if Taoists would agree.

 

[Sb1995]

The only problem I have is with the universalism. Let me explain. First there is universalism, and then there is radical universalism. Within Hinduism we have a universalist school, namely the Smarta sampradaya. It combines Vaishnavism, Saivism, and Shaktism into a group, stating, 'it really doesn't matter' and I agree to that at a deeper level.

However, when it is extended to other religions outside of Hinduism, we run into conflicting beliefs, and they are aplenty. I'm okay with the Tao personally, as there are enough similarities. I'm not sure if Taoists would agree.

As far as Abrahamic faiths go, perhaps in a few very small and rarely practiced mystical sects, something like Brahman could be found. Maybe, just maybe, in Sufism, or in monastic traditions within Eastern Orthodoxy, something similar could be found. But that's a maybe. Saying it's there on the surface is one thing. (projection of one's belief onto others) A deeper look may well reveal substantial differences. We'd have to get the respective pontiffs or acharyas together and let them decide. I don't thin philosophical questions like that can be answered by laymen like us.

The original Smarta belief got extended along the way somewhere. I think it does a disservice to the other faiths when we project something onto them that doesn't exist. It's like telling them they're actually Hindus. Bit of an insult, if you ask me.

Now this isn't to say I hate anyone. It's just a matter of recognising the difference between a cat and a dog, and doing the study to support that.

So there are philosophical ideas that I believe are outside of Hinduism. Atheism, radical universalism, etc. I think discussions that include such ideas don't belong in the Hindu DIR, but in comparative, or same faith debates.

Jai Shri Ram.:clap:clap:clap

 

[StarryNightshade]

Besides, since I'm Hindu, and Hinduism satisfies my every need, there is no need for me to explore this.

Understandable.

Since my personal spirituality is not as heavy on devotion as others, I take a more intellectual perspective to my path. It works well for me, just like yours works well for you.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Namaste StarryNightshade

Sometimes I am not shy about making recommendations.

So in this case I am going to sort of make a leap if you will and do so. I admit I could be totally wrong, but while it looks like you are leaning towards a mayavadi bend with a twist of zen mixed into upanishadic carpet ride if you will, I want to recommend for you something entirely different but something tells me there is a slight chance it may work out marvelously for you.... Have you tried Shaktism?

I think Shakta and the Great Mother might be your forte. Check out with Mother Goddess and give it a try!

Is there a Devi Temple near you? Think of everything as The Mother.

Om Namah Sivaya

Hmm...I have considered Shaktism once, but I guess I never gave it much thought. It could be something to consider.

Out of curiosity, what is it about me that makes you think that Mahadevi would be a good match? No real reason, just wondering.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste SNS

Shaktism allows for your Bhakti in general (I STILL believe you got that as part of your good natural sentiment, look for it), and also meet in the middle between Dvaita and Advaita with the Mother as both the Brahman and the Energy of all things including your world where you act out your Karma Yoga! If you believe in naturalistic cause and effect, look to Her which is the Shakti of all nature, naturalism, and in Her different Manifestations you find both Cause and Effect.

Look at Devi. Also try to borrow Her eyes. Why not try? But know that Devi in Her manifestations are different colors of experience. The one you saw in the previous reply, She really wants to take hold of Her devotees, very "protective" She will not want to share you very much, but you will find many "surprises". Think of each Devi as your Mother. It is yours to go here and there, but you may find something for you There.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[atanu]

Understandable.

Since my personal spirituality is not as heavy on devotion as others, I take a more intellectual perspective to my path. It works well for me, just like yours works well for you.

Yes. Hinduism supports a very wide variety of personal choices, as long as the basic tenets are not intentionally violated.

If the above is what characterises you more, I think, the Yoga (not mere Hatha yoga) road may be best suited for you. Access to a Patanjali Yoga based school, led by a genuine Hindu teacher (and not by a christian turned Hindu teacher) will be ideal. Yoga and Zen do have a lot in common, and actually focus on the common thread running through all phenomenom.

Alternatively, in absence of a good teacher, you may just practise conscious karma yoga, throughout the day, and mantra japa at specific times. Mantra japa is an excellent tool.

Best wishes.

 

[Poeticus]

Access to a Patanjali Yoga based school, led by a genuine Hindu teacher (and not by a christian turned Hindu teacher) will be ideal.

Wouldn't someone who's just plain
ol' Hindu, regardless of what his/her
religious background was before, be
just plain ol' Hindu?​

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste SN,

It would be presumptuous of me to say this or that would be best;
but as a Shakta, I cannot feel badly or desire to argue with ShivaFan's replies

Devi can challenge one to find Her within that which is described by some others
as mundane or illusory- as was said before, it is not where one looks, but how that
is key.

Best wishes for the ongoing journey,

JAI MATA DI

 

[Aupmanyav]

Out of curiosity, what is it about me that makes you think that Mahadevi would be a good match? No real reason, just wondering.

You have 'Adi Shakti' (Primordial power) in Tamilnadu. What is that which Hinduism does not have?
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=a...v&sa=X&ei=NoNPU4P2CYaCrAeoiYHADg&ved=0CCgQsAQ

Please note male and female gurus in the search are unnecessary additions. Sikhism mentions 'Adi Shakti".

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/172449-post7.html
http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/adi-shakti-woman-and-infinity.