Malay Muslims upset over Christian use of "Allah" to refer to god

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yahoo!

I'm confused about something. I've been in a lot of religious debates over the years, both online and IRL. And something I've heard plenty of times from Muslims is that Christians and Jews, especially in lands where Arabic is a common language, use Allah to refer to god, and use that as an argument that all three worship the same god. But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

 

[Sees]

Should be able to use whatever label they want.

Same as your experience, most Muslims I've seen online or real world are adamant about Allah = God, not a name just for the Islamic deity.

 

[Shiranui117]

Either they want us Christians to become Muslims, or they want to wipe us from the face of the earth. The nutters like that should make up their minds Are we "People of the Book" to be loved and respected, or are we to be exterminated like filthy cockroaches unworthy of even being called human? Thank God there are a lot more sane Muslims out there.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is an egregious ruling. At the same time I can fully understand anger at having the the term appropriated - especially having it appropriated by trinitarians.

 

[Caladan]

It is an egregious ruling. At the same time I can fully understand anger at having the the term appropriated - especially having it appropriated by trinitarians.

I hope you are joking. It is a clear case of Muslim appropriation since Christians have used the term to refer to the monotheistic God hundreds of years before Muslims.
Allah is a generic word for a god, the fact that Muslims have anthropomorphized it into the same personal name-term as the Allah of South Arabian paganism is a grave violation of Tawheed.
Telling Christians they cannot call on a God, in a word for 'God' which is not even an exclusive name but an Arabic term is more polytheistic than the possibility of trinitarianism.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I hope you are joking. It is a clear case of Muslim appropriation since Christians have used the term to refer to the monotheistic God hundreds of years before Muslims.
Allah is a generic word for a god, the fact that Muslims have anthropomorphized it into the same personal name-term as the Allah of South Arabian paganism is a grave violation of Tawheed.
Telling Christians they cannot call on a God, in a word for 'God' which is not even an exclusive name but an Arabic term is more polytheistic than the possibility of trinitarianism.

I agree. It would be the same as English speaking Christians getting mad at another religion for using the word 'god' for their deity.

 

[Caladan]

I agree. It would be the same as English speaking Christians getting mad at another religion for using the word 'god' for their deity.

Precisely.

No lamb for the lazy wolf.
No battle's won in bed.

spot on

Thanks Space holdings. But just to clarify, this is my signature text... not part of my post.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I hope you are joking.

The word Allah is, indeed, a generic term. The issue for me (and I do not know the answer) is whether or not the Church recently began employing and/or emphasizing the term or had been using for some time, i.e., whether or not there has been a recent change in how they were presenting/marketing themselves.

 

[crossfire]

In Malaysia, Islam is the state religion, and all ethnic Malay are considered to be Muslim. However, Malaysia also guarantees freedom of religion. Consequentially, religious affiliation tends to run down ethnic lines.

I'm thinking that this is actually an ethno-political issue, not a religious one. (They must think he's trying to convert the technically Muslim Malay ethnic group.)

 

[crossfire]

In Malaysia, Islam is the state religion, and all ethnic Malay are considered to be Muslim. However, Malaysia also guarantees freedom of religion. Consequentially, religious affiliation tends to run down ethnic lines.

I'm thinking that this is actually an ethno-political issue, not a religious one. (They must think he's trying to convert the technically Muslim Malay ethnic group.)

Oh, interesting side note: When I was recently looking for translations of the Buddhist Ambattha Sutta, which deals with rejecting ethnic prejudice, I found that a lot of the links on the web were for translations in English and Malay (which I thought odd at the time.) Now I can understand why.

 

[nazz]

Yahoo!

I'm confused about something. I've been in a lot of religious debates over the years, both online and IRL. And something I've heard plenty of times from Muslims is that Christians and Jews, especially in lands where Arabic is a common language, use Allah to refer to god, and use that as an argument that all three worship the same god. But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

I think their objection is probably to connecting Allah with a trinitarian deity. I think Jews would feel the same way about talking about HaShem as being a three-in-one God.

 

[thau]

Yahoo!

I'm confused about something. I've been in a lot of religious debates over the years, both online and IRL. And something I've heard plenty of times from Muslims is that Christians and Jews, especially in lands where Arabic is a common language, use Allah to refer to god, and use that as an argument that all three worship the same god. But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

Might be easier if you ask them to make up a list of things we do or say that does not upset them and we will stick to that.

 

[beenie]

I think their objection is probably to connecting Allah with a trinitarian deity. I think Jews would feel the same way about talking about HaShem as being a three-in-one God.

This is indeed the issue for THESE Muslims. Most, if not all Muslims I know do not have a problem with Christians using the word "Allah".

Seems like another example of "some" not speaking for "all".

 

[Man of Faith]

They are not the same God. Converted Muslims tell us that.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Truly a tempest in a teapot!

In fact, God has MANY names and titles in the various languages and cultures, and they are all equally acceptable!

Just a few of these names are: God, Boje, Jehovah, Dieu, Wankantanka, El, Jumala, Gott, Yahweh, Dios, Brahman, Elohim, Allah, Isten, Bog, Yazdan, Adonai, Parvadegar, and Huda.

ANY of these are just fine!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Man of Faith]

Truly a tempest in a teapot!

In fact, God has MANY names and titles in the various languages and cultures, and they are all equally acceptable!

Just a few of these names are: God, Boje, Jehovah, Dieu, Wankantanka, El, Jumala, Gott, Yahweh, Dios, Brahman, Elohim, Allah, Isten, Bog, Yazdan, Adonai, Parvadegar, and Huda.

ANY of these are just fine!

Peace,

Bruce

God may have many names and Allah may have many names and Allah may be a name for God, but that doesn't mean that the God of Christianity and the God of Islam are the same God. It is illogical for them to be the same God. It is illogical for someone to have a son and not have a son at the same time. It is illogical for someone to be knowable and to not be knowable at the same time. It is illogical for a God to tell one person that you get to Heaven by works and then tell someone else you get there by faith alone.

 

[LuisDantas]

They are not the same God. Converted Muslims tell us that.

Out of curiosity, how would they know?

 

[Man of Faith]

Out of curiosity, how would they know?

The God of Christianity is a personal God and once you know him, you can tell him from others. Just like I can tell my Mother from any other woman. Let's say there are two women with the same name, how do you know they aren't the same person, because of their personalities.

 

[LuisDantas]

Fair enough.

On the hand, it is my understanding that not all Christians are trinitarians, nor is trinatarianism necessarily a remarkably serious divergence among the diversity of interpretations of God found in the Abrahamic Faiths.

It shouldn't be that difficult to say that one finds the form of belief of others misguided, at the very worst. Even if both faiths happen to use the same word for God while giving it significantly different meanings, which happens pretty much all the time anyway.

 

[Bismillah]

But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

Allah is found within Arabic Bibles when referencing God.

Most likely the priest was condemned because these aren't native Arabic speakers. The Christians in Malaysia are most those of Chinese descent (with a minority of the Chinese being Christian) and those of Tamil Indian descent (with a minority again being Christian).

The anger this caused is most likely because in both these communities they do not use Allah to describe God. Instead Christians use it when evangelizing to Muslims so as to convince them that they worship the same God. There is no reason for Christians to use the word Allah none of the communities are Arabic speaking, in fact the only community that does use the word Allah is the Muslim Malay ethnicity. It's a deliberate choice by the priest to do that and it angered the fuqaha of Malaysia because it was proselytizing and intentionally deceptive.

Out of curiosity, how would they know?

The Christians I have spoken with say that Allah is similar to the "father" in Christianity. Allah is not like anything similar to Jesus Christ however in that Allah states in the Qur'an

God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being.

He begets not, and neither is He begotten

and there is nothing that could be compared with Him.