Man - 'Created in the image of God'

[Katzpur]

We read in John 1:1-5, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.

The above relationship of God and Jesus can be explained also in this way. "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with "Katzpur" and the word was "Katzpur". He was in the beginning with "Katzpur" All things came into being by him." You get the idea. Now you must understand you cannot separate your word from you, it is impossible. So, you are your word, and your word is you, and so is God and Jesus.

Free spirit, you and I could not possibly have a more pronounced difference of opinion. I believe this: "In the beginning was the Word (i.e. Jesus Christ), and the Word was with 'God' ('God' being a title given to the Father), and the Word was 'God' ('God' being a title given also to the Son)."

Without your ability to speak you will have no personage at all, it is the words that we speak that gives us personage.

I don't know how in the world you came up with that, but I don't see any logic in it whatsoever. A newborn baby cannot speak. You are saying that a baby is not a personage. A dying person in a coma cannot speak. You are saying that he is not a personage. I totally disagree.

I'm glad we can discuss our differences and remain civil and respectful of one another, but I hope you realize that neither of us has the slightest chance of changing the other one's mind.

 

[Katzpur]

In post 105 you write, "And because we are in the image of God, I believe that God is a spirit clothed in an immortal body."

Okay, I believe the Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, just like all fathers and sons are. Most Christians I have talked to believe that the resurrected Jesus Christ is a spirit clothed in an immortal body. I believe the same to be true of God the Father. I believe that when Stephen looked up into Heaven and saw the Son sitting on the right hand of His Father, he was looking at two distinct Beings. For starters, he would not have been able to determine that the Son was on the right hand of the Father otherwise.

 

[Daily Devoted]

1. Isaiah 44:6 - There are only two 'persons/figures'. It appears that there is no mention of The Holy Ghost (Who proceedeth from The Father).

I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Do you mean that just because one verse does not mention one of the persons of the Trinity, that He does not exist? Look at other parts of the Bible and The Holy Ghost is mentioned: Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is one of the things that is defined as a mystery. Mystery - something that is veiled in the OT and revealed in the NT. His presence was there, but He was not spoken of explicitly.

2. Jesus Christ told the rich man, "There is no one good but God," when the rich man called Jesus Christ, "good."

I can't say for sure, but this appears to be a translation error. This is the account in the ASV: Matthew 19:16 And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.

3. The Father would have to have existed before He begot The Son.

As they have shared from John 1:1-4 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The Word is Jesus. Jesus' being the only begotten Son of God means that He is the only true Son of God, not that He came into existence at a certain time. God has always been: He created time and is outside time. Jesus is God.

 

[Daily Devoted]

Okay, I believe the Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, just like all fathers and sons are. Most Christians I have talked to believe that the resurrected Jesus Christ is a spirit clothed in an immortal body. I believe the same to be true of God the Father. I believe that when Stephen looked up into Heaven and saw the Son sitting on the right hand of His Father, he was looking at two distinct Beings. For starters, he would not have been able to determine that the Son was on the right hand of the Father otherwise.

Remember what I said before about God being able to reveal himself to men. What I mean by that is that He can open our eyes so that we can see what is spirit. We saw an example of that in the OT when one of the prophets opened the eyes of his servant to see the host of angels surrounding their enemies.

This being said; I am done discussing the Trinity for this reason: the Trinity is something that we will never be able to understand. The Bible has many passages that refer to the three persons in a singular way. I gave the passage from Deuteronomy where it says, "Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." I guess it just comes to your own interpretation. With this said: I will leave this discussion with one more analogy: think of water. Water can exist in three forms (liquid, ice and gas) and yet it still contains the same substance (oxygen and Hydrogen). Thanks for this discussion. I now retire from it.

 

[free spirit]

Free spirit, you and I could not possibly have a more pronounced difference of opinion. I believe this: "In the beginning was the Word (i.e. Jesus Christ), and the Word was with 'God' ('God' being a title given to the Father), and the Word was 'God' ('God' being a title given also to the Son)."

How many have the title of God? I believe that God is one, like you are, that is to say, your body, your soul, your spirit, are one person, yet they are different.

I don't know how in the world you came up with that, but I don't see any logic in it whatsoever. A newborn baby cannot speak. You are saying that a baby is not a personage. A dying person in a coma cannot speak. You are saying that he is not a personage. I totally disagree.

I newborn baby cannot speak a language yet, but his mind has comprehension and in a short time he will interact with his carer. A dying person has formed a history of his personage, and we remenber that.

I'm glad we can discuss our differences and remain civil and respectful of one another, but I hope you realize that neither of us has the slightest chance of changing the other one's mind.

I do not want to change anyone's mind, I can only speak the truth, it is up to God to make you see. Oh yes I respect and love you as my potential sister having the same mind: "the mind of Christ"

 

[free spirit]

Okay, I believe the Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, just like all fathers and sons are. Most Christians I have talked to believe that the resurrected Jesus Christ is a spirit clothed in an immortal body. I believe the same to be true of God the Father. I believe that when Stephen looked up into Heaven and saw the Son sitting on the right hand of His Father, he was looking at two distinct Beings. For starters, he would not have been able to determine that the Son was on the right hand of the Father otherwise.

"And the word become flesh" So, the word acquired a body, I do not know of any other body. If you like to speculate it is up to you, but it has no basis to stand on.

 

[Katzpur]

1. Isaiah 44:6 - There are only two 'persons/figures'. It appears that there is no mention of The Holy Ghost (Who proceedeth from The Father).

Many passages mention only one person (i.e. the Father, the Son, or the Holy Ghost). I don't see the fact that Isaiah 44:6 doesn't mention the Holy Ghost to be particularly significant. The Holy Ghost is definitely referred to elsewhere and appears to have a very significant role as the third member of the Godhead.

2. Jesus Christ told the rich man, "There is no one good but God," when the rich man called Jesus Christ, "good."

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There are hundreds of times in the scriptures where people are said to be "righteous." I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ wouldn't have chosen "bad" men to be His Apostles, so I've got to assume His chosen Twelve were essentially "good" men. I suspect there is more to His comment about no one being good except God than meets the eye.

3. The Father would have to have existed before He begot The Son.

I'm surprised to see that someone agrees with me on that.

 

[Katzpur]

This being said; I am done discussing the Trinity for this reason: the Trinity is something that we will never be able to understand... Thanks for this discussion. I now retire from it.

Sorry to hear that. I've been enjoying talking to you.

 

[Katzpur]

How many have the title of God?

I believe there are three: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

I believe that God is one, like you are, that is to say, your body, your soul, your spirit, are one person, yet they are different.

See, that makes no sense to me. I believe that my body, when infused with spirit, makes me a living soul. I don't see my "soul" as being a third component, but the result of my body and my spirit coming together. And I don't see the same being true with respect to God.

I newborn baby cannot speak a language yet, but his mind has comprehension and in a short time he will interact with his carer. A dying person has formed a history of his personage, and we remenber that.

I see... So they are "personages" despite the fact that they cannot speak. Nice to know. I still don't see what you're driving at with this information.

I do not want to change anyone's mind, I can only speak the truth, it is up to God to make you see.

I could say exactly the same thing, free spirit. Trust me, I am every bit as confident that what I believe is true as you are that what you believe is true.

Oh yes I respect and love you as my potential sister having the same mind: "the mind of Christ"

I am only a potential sister? That's too bad. I believe that we have the same Father in Heaven and that we are all His sons and daughters; we are siblings, not just potentially, but in actuality.

 

[Katzpur]

"And the word become flesh" So, the word acquired a body, I do not know of any other body. If you like to speculate it is up to you, but it has no basis to stand on.

We all speculate, free spirit. You are as guilty of it as the next person. I believe I can argue my position every bit as convincingly as you can argue yours. Is that where you want us to go from here?

 

[free spirit]

I believe there are three: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

The Father cannot be God without the Son, The son cannot be God without the Father, and the holy Ghost would not exist without Father and son.
So let us say we agree to disagree.

See, that makes no sense to me. I believe that my body, when infused with spirit, makes me a living soul. I don't see my "soul" as being a third component, but the result of my body and my spirit coming together. And I don't see the same being true with respect to God.

Yes I agree the soul matures with our living experiences that is what makes you, you.
Jesus also had a human soul.

I see... So they are "personages" despite the fact that they cannot speak. Nice to know. I still don't see what you're driving at with this information.

I hope to make you see that the word is at all times deep within our mind, it is our conscientiouness even if we do not give a voice to it. In other words it is the "I am"

I could say exactly the same thing, free spirit. Trust me, I am every bit as confident that what I believe is true as you are that what you believe is true.

The universal unchangeble truth is a state of holiness: Jesus is truth. He said so.

I am only a potential sister? That's too bad. I believe that we have the same Father in Heaven and that we are all His sons and daughters; we are siblings, not just potentially, but in actuality.

[/quote]
Please do not be angry with me, the scripture says that there are false brethren, or illegitimate children of God. But if we had the same mind, the mind of Christ we would be siblings through the love of God. Yes you are close to me because of your faith, but not a sister yet, but there is hope.

The original question was "we were made in the image of God" We all must consider that sin made us drift away from that image. We know that God is holy, the question should be. how holy in spirit and body are we?

 

[Midnight Pete]

I am not holy.

I am not holy at all.

 

[free spirit]

I am not holy.

I am not holy at all.

Don't fill bad we all have sinned, because we were sold in bondage to sin. But Jesus came to forgive the sins of the world, and to make holy whomsoever will receive him. He will lead the repentant soul all the way to holiness because he is stronger than temptation, all he asks is your cooperation. John 1:-12, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

 

[Midnight Pete]

Don't fill bad we all have sinned, because we were sold in bondage to sin. But Jesus came to forgive the sins of the world, and to make holy whomsoever will receive him. He will lead the repentant soul all the way to holiness because he is stronger than temptation, all he asks is your cooperation. John 1:-12, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

No, it is a liberating admission to say I am not holy!

I do not feel bad about it. IMO a Christian should not project his own holiness but rather the holiness of Christ.

 

[Katzpur]

Please do not be angry with me, the scripture says that there are false brethren, or illegitimate children of God. But if we had the same mind, the mind of Christ we would be siblings through the love of God. Yes you are close to me because of your faith, but not a sister yet, but there is hope.

I'm not angry, just amused by your condescending attitude and your suggestion that I am an illegitimate child of God while you are the real thing.

 

[Daily Devoted]

The original question was "we were made in the image of God" We all must consider that sin made us drift away from that image. We know that God is holy, the question should be. how holy in spirit and body are we?

There is holy and then there is not holy. There are no degrees of holy. On this earth we will never be holy. As the other guy said, our lives should point to Christ's holiness.

 

[Daily Devoted]

Don't fill bad we all have sinned, because we were sold in bondage to sin. But Jesus came to forgive the sins of the world, and to make holy whomsoever will receive him. He will lead the repentant soul all the way to holiness because he is stronger than temptation, all he asks is your cooperation. John 1:-12, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

Before we are saved, we are dead in our sins. Once we trust Christ as our Saviour, we become dead to our sins. In other words we are no longer under the power of sin. Through Christ we have the power to beat sin. This does not mean that we will be perfect, but we do have the ability to beat sin. There are three parts of the Christian life: Justification: when we are saved we have Christ's righteousness imputed onto our "account"", and when God looks on us He sees the righteousness of Christ, Sanctification: we are set apart from the world in a gradual process of becoming more and more like Christ, although we will never reach perfection in this life, and Glorification: this happens when Christ returns and we receive our glorified bodies. This is when we become holy (sinless).

The point I really wanted to make here is that we are not in bondage to sin after we are bought with the blood of Christ.

 

[Thief]

Did I miss it?...did anyone describe what the image of God is?

Does that include a physical body...of any kind?
Obedience to His own decree of physical law?


God does not sleep...so I've heard....how about you?
A day in His life is like unto a thousand years.
Your sense of time is like His?

Anyone waiting for a photo?...a fingerprint?

Expecting to see some old guy with a beard.....when you 'get there'?

What reflection are you?...really

 

[Daily Devoted]

Did I miss it?...did anyone describe what the image of God is?

Does that include a physical body...of any kind?
Obedience to His own decree of physical law?


God does not sleep...so I've heard....how about you?
A day in His life is like unto a thousand years.
Your sense of time is like His?

What reflection are you?...really

As I stated previously, God is spirit. He does not have a physical body. He can still reveal Himself to us though. God's physical laws are not for Himself, because He does not exist in the physical. As far as our sense of time, God is outside time. Time is another one of His creations.

When the Bible says we are made in His image, it means that man and God share immaterial qualities such as intellect, will and emotions.

 

[free spirit]

No, it is a liberating admission to say I am not holy!

A confession of the problem will lead to the solving of the problem.

I do not feel bad about it. IMO a Christian should not project his own holiness but rather the holiness of Christ

.
We can only be holy through the grace of Christ. nevertheless when we have obtein that holiness, we will be holy as he is holy. 1John 3:2-3, "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall resemble Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." All Christians should have the hope of been holy, it will make you do the right thing at all times.