Man - 'Created in the image of God'

[Thief]

Perhaps you are unaware that in it's original form, the Bible had no chapters. This is simply a bad chapter break placed by men later, not by the authors.

And you are supposing to know more than the people who made the correction?

 

[james2ko]

I agree with Katzpur to the degree that the word "day" in the Bible is often used to represent an indefinite period of time. In fact the Hebrew word, Yom, translated day is occasionally translated "time". But in every case where the numerals first, second, third, etc. occur, the word day is obviously and clearly referring to a natural 24 hr day as we know it.

Scripture speaks of a day of vengeance, the day of adversity, the day of temptation, meaning a time or season. Yet when it speaks of the 14th day of the month (Lev 23), the 7 days of Unleavened Bread or the 50 days until Pentecost, the word "day" can only mean a 24 hr period.

If you carefully read Genesis 1:3-5, 14-19 with special attention on the words evening and morning, night and day, darkness and light. All have continued since creation. Note that the sun was appointed "to divide the light from the darkness"---to divide day from night. Does sundown divide anything but literal days? No place in scripture does God imply that He took anything but a natural week of ordinary days to bring life and order to the earth.

The two theories of a young and old earth can actually co-exist. Explanation here: post #146

Creation days were not 1,000 years long or extended periods of time: see biblical proof here
post #149

 

[Thief]

The bible interprets itself. In Gen 1:26 states, God made the beast after "their" own kind. But He made man in "Our" [plural form of God]image and according to our likeness." The Hebrew word for image is "tselem" it is used 16 times in the OT. A casual glance at other scriptures utilizing this word gives us a sense God created us according to His physical outline, form and shape. Notice how the word image is used:

1Sa 6:5 Therefore you shall make images [tselem]of your tumors and images [tselem]of your rats that ravage the land, and you shall give glory to the God of Israel; perhaps He will lighten His hand from you, from your gods, and from your land.​

The Hebrew word for "likeness" is "demooth" defined as: resemblance concretely modeled, shape, fashion, similitude. It occurs 25 times in 22 verses. Here again we get a sense of the word "likeness" [demooth] describing the physical resemblance of the altar, Notice:

2 Kings 16:10, And king Ahaz went to Damascus to meet Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and saw an altar that was at Damascus: and king Ahaz sent to Urijah the priest the fashion [demooth] of the altar, and the pattern of it, according to all the workmanship thereof.​

The bible is clear about the spiritual shape and form of God. He has our form and shape but composed of Spirit!

I'm not all together opposed to a God that "looks" like us.
It could sooth that 'first impression' you will have... when you meet Him.

But it's not likely.

My take is spiritual.
For Him to be the Almighty includes...
bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.

These terms are not necessarily physical.
And not likely human in form.

 

[james2ko]

I'm not all together opposed to a God that "looks" like us. It could sooth that 'first impression' you will have... when you meet Him. But it's not likely. My take is spiritual. These terms are not necessarily physical. And not likely human in form.

Let's allow the bible to interpret itself. In John 14:7, Jesus states, "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." Then in vs 8 Philip asked, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied". Notice Philip did not ask how can we know the Father. This statement was made towards the end of Jesus' ministry. Jesus had already made known to Philip and the rest of His disciples the Father's spiritual qualities now Phillip wanted Jesus to show him the Father's physical qualities.

Scholars concur, (see Clarke, Gill, Henry's commentary on this verse) Philip was making the same request Moses made in Ex 33:18. They both wanted physical, literal manifestations of God. And what was Jesus' answer to Philip's request?

"Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father! So why are you asking Me to show Him to you?" (John 14:9 NLT)

In essence, Jesus told Philip God looks just like us!

For Him to be the Almighty includes...bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.

I would have to amicably disagree. These are all manifestations of our own human vanity and cannot have any part of God's image or likeness.

 

[Thief]

Let's allow the bible to interpret itself. In John 14:7, Jesus states, "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." Then in vs 8 Philip asked, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied". Notice Philip did not ask how can we know the Father. This statement was made towards the end of Jesus' ministry. Jesus had already made known to Philip and the rest of His disciples the Father's spiritual qualities now Phillip wanted Jesus to show him the Father's physical qualities.

Scholars concur, (see Clarke, Gill, Henry's commentary on this verse) Philip was making the same request Moses made in Ex 33:18. They both wanted physical, literal manifestations of God. And what was Jesus' answer to Philip's request?

"Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father! So why are you asking Me to show Him to you?" (John 14:9 NLT)

In essence, Jesus told Philip God looks just like us!

This conclusion flies in the very face of the quotations you used!!!!!

I would have to amicably disagree. These are all manifestations of our own human vanity and cannot have any part of God's image or likeness.

The so called 'manifestations' are accurate.
If the Almighty should lack any one of these...He would not be....
the Almighty.

 

[james2ko]

The so called 'manifestations' are accurate.
If the Almighty should lack any one of these...He would not be....
the Almighty.

Says who?

This conclusion flies in the very face of the quotations you used!!!!!

I'm not the smartest pin in the cushion, please explain.

 

[Thief]

Says who?

Anyone who understands...'superlatives'.

I'm not the smartest pin in the cushion, please explain.

Look another man in the face and see...God?

Philosophically correct.
Physically no.

Several religions would have you believe God and Man are as one.
Separation is an illusion.

But the manner by which you deal with your fellowman reveals who you are.

That the Carpenter would say.....'you have seen Him, that you have seen Me...'
is not a statement of physical appearance.

For that matter....I happen to resemble Jesus of Nazareth.
Many strangers have told me so......"You look like Him!"

So what?

 

[Daily Devoted]

LOL! In its original form, the Bible wasn't a Bible. It was a collection of writings assembled over thousands of years.

What's your point? I was talking about after they were placed into one manuscript. It was originally without chapters and verses.

 

[Daily Devoted]

And you are supposing to know more than the people who made the correction?

I don't know more than they did, but they were not perfect. You don't have to know more to find mistakes. There are many places where the chapter and verse divisions are in a bad place. I am not the only one who says this. There are many very educated and studied people who do.

 

[Daily Devoted]

I guess I see see it differently, Devoted. I definitely do not believe that the earth and all life on it happened by chance or randomly. I believe God was at the controls every minute of every hour since the beginning. I have no problem whatsoever believing that the earth has been around for a very long time and it has never crossed my mind to let that belief lessen my faith in God.

Just what exactly do you believe as far as the origin of the earth? Do you believe theistic evolution, the day age theory or the Gap theory? Or is it something else?

 

[Thief]

I don't know more than they did, but they were not perfect. You don't have to know more to find mistakes. There are many places where the chapter and verse divisions are in a bad place. I am not the only one who says this. There are many very educated and studied people who do.

Then how can it be?...we disagree?

I didn't change the words of Genesis when I read it.
It works for me as is.

I readily accept the disorder of creation listed in Chapter One.
It reads as one step before the next....
and the sequence is written incorrectly.
That never bothered me.
I figured it out.

It's people that insist upon the sequence as written....
they are stopping short of better understanding.

 

[Daily Devoted]

Then how can it be?...we disagree?

I didn't change the words of Genesis when I read it.
It works for me as is.

I readily accept the disorder of creation listed in Chapter One.
It reads as one step before the next....
and the sequence is written incorrectly.
That never bothered me.
I figured it out.

It's people that insist upon the sequence as written....
they are stopping short of better understanding.

If you question one portion of Scripture, what is to stop you from questioning the other parts? The Bible has to be taken as wholly true or wholly false. It comes down to faith.

 

[Thief]

If you question one portion of Scripture, what is to stop you from questioning the other parts? The Bible has to be taken as wholly true or wholly false. It comes down to faith.

This much is not even close to clear thinking.

And faith that hasn't been well honed....

Angels with dull swords?

And of course there bits and pieces of scripture that are missing.
The bible never has been...'whole'.

 

[james2ko]

Look another man in the face and see...God?

Philosophically correct. Physically no. Several religions would have you believe God and Man are as one. Separation is an illusion.But the manner by which you deal with your fellowman reveals who you are.That the Carpenter would say.....'you have seen Him, that you have seen Me...'is not a statement of physical appearance.

For that matter....I happen to resemble Jesus of Nazareth. Many strangers have told me so......"You look like Him!" So what?

Personal opinions are wonderful. But it has to stand up to scriptural scrutiny. I'm afraid yours falls short. Unless, of course, you have some contextual references to solidify your interpretation.

 

[Thief]

Personal opinions are wonderful. But it has to stand up to scriptural scrutiny. I'm afraid yours falls short. Unless, of course, you have some contextual references to solidify your interpretation.

Personal opinions are critical.

As you stand up from your dust....
are you not expecting angels...with sword in hand?

And are you not assuming error....when it is obvious....I know better.

 

[james2ko]

Personal opinions are critical.

As you stand up from your dust....are you not expecting angels...with sword in hand?

And are you not assuming error....when it is obvious....I know better.

Are you implying that your personal opinion is paramount to scripture?

 

[Thief]

Are you implying that your personal opinion is paramount to scripture?

As you said before....errors can be found.

Are you assuming corrections cannot be made?

 

[james2ko]

As you said before....errors can be found.

I did? when???

Are you assuming corrections cannot be made?

No they cannot. Scripture, in its original languages, are nearly 100% accurate. We're getting off topic...Man created in the image of God...remember. Bottom line---If you are going to refute someone's scripture, please try also backing up your rebuttals with relevant scriptures.

 

[Daily Devoted]

This much is not even close to clear thinking.

And faith that hasn't been well honed....

Angels with dull swords?

And of course there bits and pieces of scripture that are missing.
The bible never has been...'whole'.

Scripture interprets Scripture. When one portion of the Bible is called false, all other parts of the Bible that are built on that part or that refer to that part must then also be false.

It is your opinion that there are bits and pieces missing. I believe that the canon of Scripture is complete.

 

[free spirit]

I never said not to repent. As to the passage you listed, let me say that you have to interpret Scripture with Scripture. In the same book it says this: 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

You do not understand the difference between the act of sinning and the state of sin.
The act of sinning is when I do something not appropiate to the life in Christ. The state of sin is in my flesh I cannot get rid of it.
As you know Jesus was made sin, but never sinned. that is to say that Jesus was made flesh but never obeyed its lusts. The flesh and sin is one and the same. So if we say we have no sin (or the lusts of the flesh) the truth is not in us.

Keep in mind too, the book of 1 John was written to believers. When he says, "No one who abides in Him sins," it is explained with this: although we believe and are longer bound to sin, we do not always abide in Christ. Believers can sin, and sever their fellowship with Christ. When we abide in Christ, we don't sin; when we are not abiding in Christ, we sin.

You cannot go in and out from abideing in Christ, if that is the case I would be a double minded man, or a baby in Christ.
A mature and serious Christian would take hold of this: 1Peter 1:14-16, "As obedient children, do not be comformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, 'You shall be Holy for I am Holy'"