Mandatory reporting laws vs. Confession

[McBell]

First off, A doctor and a teacher discover abuse. It may be told to them in confidence but for the most part the person is coming for help and to help them it may be necessary to get others involved.

The law requires certain "confessions" to be reported.
Priests should not be excluded from mandatory reporting.

Second there are bad people in every profession and just because you make it illegal to not reveal whats said in the confessional does not mean it will be revealed. Unless you put cameras and speakers in there it is up to the priest.

Again, laws are already in place for this.
If a person makes a mandatory report "confession" and the one receiving said "confession" fails to report it, then they can be charged with accessory.

Third you make the case for child abuse but priest are also told about murders, stealing, beating, cheating and etc. Do you only care about child abuse or do we need a list of what they should disclose and what they shouldn't disclose.

I suspect that the OP is talking about child abuse because of the article, not because they want ONLY child abuse to be reported.

4th Not that many people actually confess child abuse. Not that many people confess at all.

Then it would not be a problem with charging priests as accessories.

 

[Kemosloby]

Confessionals are probably an abomination to God anyway. So let the priests go out and get jobs and the pedophiles rot in prison or burn in hell.

 

[Thanda]

It is one thing to champion for professional help for child abusers. Counselling, mental health assessments, medical things etc. That I can get behind.

But in each and every confession of child abuse, that inherently involves (at some point in time) a child being ****ing abused! I'm sorry my priority is always going to be to protect the child, not anyone who wishes to confess.

This type of special protection is specifically banned in laws in many countries because of the ramifications not reporting to the authorities had on the abused to begin with.
Spiritual absolution is no excuse for essentially protecting child abusers or murderers or rapists or even that otherwise nice guy who parked in a handicapped space once, despite not being handicapped, because they were in a hurry.

Religion should not ever come before the safety of the greater public.

Your rage is useless since without the assurance of confidentiality the perpetrator will likely never confess.

 

[SomeRandom]

Your rage is useless since without the assurance of confidentiality the perpetrator will likely never confess.

Ehh, considering it still happens despite these laws being in place, I don't really think so.

 

[Kemosloby]

Your rage is useless since without the assurance of confidentiality the perpetrator will likely never confess.

So what good does it do to confess under confidentiality?

 

[Thanda]

So what good does it do to confess under confidentiality?

That person might actually change and stop abusing whoever they are currently abusing.

 

[Thanda]

Ehh, considering it still happens despite these laws being in place, I don't really think so.

That is probably because, for now, most priests aren't adhering to the law. I'm also quite sure most who confess are unaware of the law (of mandatory reporting). If a huge amount of people confessing crimes to their priests started getting hauled off to prison, I'm sure the rate of confession would drop sharply.

 

[SomeRandom]

That is probably because, for now, most priests aren't adhering to the law. I'm also quite sure most who confess are unaware of the law (of mandatory reporting). If a huge amount of people confessing crimes to their priests started getting hauled off to prison, I'm sure the rate of confession would drop sharply.

Actually, in Australia at least, it's pretty common knowledge that the church has to report crimes from confessionals. Even non Catholics know that. That track record is shaky sure, which is why they're constantly in trouble with the law and trying to change their image every now and then. Now I don't know any stats with regards to confessionals over the years, but I'm afraid I still have to be on the side that thinks this should be law. The Church don't get to be special, they have to follow the laws just like everyone else. And if they continue to flout it, well it will just continue turning us younguns off the Church, due to their irresponsibility and failure to act in accordance to duty of care. Moral high ground is hard to have when you are perceived to protect child molesters.

 

[Kemosloby]

That person might actually change and stop abusing whoever they are currently abusing.

Maybe, better than nothing i guess. Unless the priests assurances act as an enabler. The bible says you don't need a priest though, Just an earnest prayer. James 5:16

And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail. Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.…

 

[Thanda]

Actually, in Australia at least, it's pretty common knowledge that the church has to report crimes from confessionals. Even non Catholics know that. That track record is shaky sure, which is why they're constantly in trouble with the law and trying to change their image every now and then. Now I don't know any stats with regards to confessionals over the years, but I'm afraid I still have to be on the side that thinks this should be law. The Church don't get to be special, they have to follow the laws just like everyone else. And if they continue to flout it, well it will just continue turning us younguns off the Church, due to their irresponsibility and failure to act in accordance to duty of care. Moral high ground is hard to have when you are perceived to protect child molesters.

My point is simply that if the purpose of the law is to prevent or reduce child molestation then the law is ineffectual since, upon realising they are going to be reported and go to jail if they confess to a priest, most sane people will decide not to confess and carry on their merry way (of abusing). Thus the law more probably has the effect of facilitating the continuation of abuse rather than the ending of it.

But I can see why people like the law of mandatory reporting. It makes to seem like the society is tough on crime even when the law itself is counterproductive.

 

[Kemosloby]

My point is simply that if the purpose of the law is to prevent or reduce child molestation then the law is ineffectual since, upon realising they are going to be reported and go to jail if they confess to a priest, most sane people will decide not to confess and carry on their merry way (of abusing). Thus the law more probably has the effect of facilitating the continuation of abuse rather than the ending of it.

But I can see why people like the law of mandatory reporting. It makes to seem like the society is tough on crime even when the law itself is counterproductive.

Priests rubber stamping sins may be counterproductive as well.

 

[McBell]

My point is simply that if the purpose of the law is to prevent or reduce child molestation then the law is ineffectual since, upon realising they are going to be reported and go to jail if they confess to a priest, most sane people will decide not to confess and carry on their merry way (of abusing). Thus the law more probably has the effect of facilitating the continuation of abuse rather than the ending of it.

But I can see why people like the law of mandatory reporting. It makes to seem like the society is tough on crime even when the law itself is counterproductive.

I think I missed something here...

Your claim is that mandatory reporting would simply stop people from confessing and not stop abuse?
How much abuse has confessing stopped?

 

[Thanda]

I think I missed something here...

Your claim is that mandatory reporting would simply stop people from confessing and not stop abuse?
How much abuse has confessing stopped?

If wanted more than my opinion you'd have to commission a study on that. Did they commission a study before enacting the mandatory reporting laws?

 

[Thanda]

Priests rubber stamping sins may be counterproductive as well.

Rubber stamping sins? That is an oxymoron if there ever was one.

 

[Kemosloby]

Rubber stamping sins? That is an oxymoron if there ever was one.

Forgiving sins as if they had the authority to forgive sins. rubber stamping them, automatic sin forgiveness

rubber stamp definition
a person or organization that gives automatic approval or authorization to the decisions of others, without proper consideration.

 

[SomeRandom]

My point is simply that if the purpose of the law is to prevent or reduce child molestation then the law is ineffectual since, upon realising they are going to be reported and go to jail if they confess to a priest, most sane people will decide not to confess and carry on their merry way (of abusing). Thus the law more probably has the effect of facilitating the continuation of abuse rather than the ending of it.

But I can see why people like the law of mandatory reporting. It makes to seem like the society is tough on crime even when the law itself is counterproductive.

May be counter productive, but we have had a long history of the Church literally covering up crime and the effect it has had on the victims is just too great for it not to be in place. The Church brought the law onto themselves by doing everything in their power to protect child molesters. I'm willing to find a compromise, but the Church doesn't seem to. (Note I am not speaking of all Catholics or even all Churches.)

 

[Thanda]

May be counter productive, but we have had a long history of the Church literally covering up crime and the effect it has had on the victims is just too great for it not to be in place. The Church brought the law onto themselves by doing everything in their power to protect child molesters. I'm willing to find a compromise, but the Church doesn't seem to. (Note I am not speaking of all Catholics or even all Churches.)

Perhaps. I must here say that failing to protect children by removing access offending priests have to children through their position is not the same as not reporting a crime one hears about through confession. In my church for example (Mormon) if you worked with children and were found to be abusing them you would be immediately relieved of your duties, regardless of the process of repentance you are embarking on. Also even if you even complete the process and are reinstated in the church as a full member you would never again be allowed to work with children in any church calling. Furthermore the church reserves the right to deny admission to anyone who they believe will harm members of the church. If a priest is not convinced a person's repentance for such a serious sin as child abuse they may refuse that individual entrance into the church.

 

[SomeRandom]

Perhaps. I must here say that failing to protect children by removing access offending priests have to children through their position is not the same as not reporting a crime one hears about through confession. In my church for example (Mormon) if you worked with children and were found to be abusing them you would be immediately relieved of your duties, regardless of the process of repentance you are embarking on. Also even if you even complete the process and are reinstated in the church as a full member you would never again be allowed to work with children in any church calling. Furthermore the church reserves the right to deny admission to anyone who they believe will harm members of the church. If a priest is not convinced a person's repentance for such a serious sin as child abuse they may refuse that individual entrance into the church.

Over here we have what's called a "blue card." Essentially if you want to work with youth, the elderly or the disabled in any capacity (ie teacher, youth mentor or aged care) you have to go through a screening process and if you are found to be abusing someone. Well your prospects in those fields ain't exactly great. Not sure if it's the same in Catholic Churches, I do remember them wanting to implement such a thing a while ago though.

 

[McBell]

If wanted more than my opinion you'd have to commission a study on that. Did they commission a study before enacting the mandatory reporting laws?

Ah, so you are merely grasping at straws then?
No worries.

 

[Thanda]

Ah, so you are merely grasping at straws then?
No worries.

I am not grasping at straws. Did you want anecdotal evidence or did you want proper research - and you should be asking yourself why that research wasn't done before mandatory reporting laws were proposed as the solution to the problem.