Manifestations of God

[Vinayaka]

Could the same question be asked of you to provide some basis for your claim that the Hindu belief in one God is not "the most common" in the East? And, as was pointed out, there's a difference between what people in villages might believe compared to a consensus of pandits.

Indeed it could. I get my information from Hindus and how they practice mostly. In temples you see many Gods, and I've been to over a hundred of those. But to do some sort of survey on how individuals perceive it would be quite impossible. The monotheism in Hinduism isn't exclusive monotheism. But i will confess I don't know for sure. Just open to possibilities, and I often question where information is gotten from in anything involving my faith. If anything, we're mostly henothists, which is a sort of qualified monotheism.

 

[sun rise]

Indeed it could. I get my information from Hindus and how they practice mostly. In temples you see many Gods, and I've been to over a hundred of those. But to do some sort of survey on how individuals perceive it would be quite impossible. The monotheism in Hinduism isn't exclusive monotheism. But i will confess I don't know for sure. Just open to possibilities, and I often question where information is gotten from in anything involving my faith. If anything, we're mostly henothists, which is a sort of qualified monotheism.

Those are interesting points. Seeing a temple is one thing but understanding the depth of someone's belief is another thing.

I'm reminded of the attitude Catholics have toward saints. I believe they pray that a saint will intercede for them but are very clear to not confuse a saint with God. It would be easy for someone to visit Saint Peter's in Rome and make the wrong assumption about the images of the Saints one finds there. But I have to wonder if all Catholics know the teaching of the church on the proper attitude toward saints. Maybe most do but I don't know.

So I think you're right to want to understand what the real beliefs of the people are. The Hindus I have known in India mostly focus on Rama and Krishna, who are considered to be Avatars, God in human form. But I don't know enough about how the majority of Hindus believe to draw clear conclusions.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm reminded of the attitude Catholics have toward saints. I believe they pray that a saint will intercede for them but are very clear to not confuse a saint with God. It would be easy for someone to visit Saint Peter's in Rome and make the wrong assumption about the images of the Saints one finds there. But I have to wonder if all Catholics know the teaching of the church on the proper attitude toward saints. Maybe most do but I don't know.

Another comparison I've heard is that the secondary Gods of Hinduism (when there is a supreme God with secondary Gods) are similar to the archangels of Catholicism. But who really knows when we're trying to find similarities. It would take some kind of special mystic to figure it out for sure. "I think ..." doesn't really cut it.

 

[Maya3]

Everything is God's manifestation.
The question is, was Jesus a man who became Self Realized?

Maya

 

[metis]

Modern humans have existed for about 200,000 years.

There's evidence that civilization goes back a lot longer than we usually think, but those civilizations have been lost to the historical record. According to findings, there evidence of civilizations or settled cities going back at least over 12,000 years ago. There's other things we're still not sure about, such as the Sphinx. So who knows what went on tens of thousands of years ago. There's a huge gap in what we know about human history because we didn't write it down or whatever writings didn't survive.

Yes. And we know that at least some Neanderthals had "religion" in that there's a pattern of burials whereas the bodies were laying in the same direction (feet facing east), surrounded by stones and sometimes bear skulls, and also with food and weapons buried with them.

BTW, in my introductory anthropology course, I covered the ancient site of Jarmo, and the progression of it and neighboring communities to eventually become the Sumerian civilization, and then eventually the Babylonian empire. And it's very interesting how the religion changed as time went on, adjusting to changes in both the environment and how their culture adjusted to that differing environment.

 

[metis]

Just where are you getting your information from? Yes, Advaita Vedanta is the most common Hindu system in the west, but it isn't in the east. You've read something in an encyclopedia?

In the OP, I mentioned that a friend of mine studied Hinduism both here in the States and for a summer in India, whereas he took classes on Hinduism in Delhi and then traveled to various locations throughout India studying it. It was he who mentioned that pattern to me. However, remember that this is a general rule of thumb and not an absolute one that would cover all sects.

BTW, not too long after he got back from his study, the movie "Gandhi" came out, so he made numerous presentations in the Detroit area, mostly to church groups, and I often went with him.

 

[metis]

Everything is God's manifestation.
The question is, was Jesus a man who became Self Realized?

Maya

I don't see why not.

BTW, it's great to see you again, Maya, and you should maybe post more here because I always enjoy what you have to say.

 

[Vinayaka]

In the OP, I mentioned that a friend of mine studied Hinduism both here in the States and for a summer in India, whereas he took classes on Hinduism in Delhi and then traveled to various locations throughout India studying it.

Thanks for the explanation. Can you recall where all he went?

 

[metis]

Thanks for the explanation. Can you recall where all he went?

Mostly Delhi, Calcutta, Mumbai (then "Bombay"), Agra, Amritsar, and Kashmir, plus some small villages. He tried to go back several years later to cover more the south but couldn't get the funding from the university.

BTW, in Calcutta he caught amoebic dysentery (forgot that ice was frozen water), he lost over 30 pounds and had to go on antibiotics when he got back. His description of what dysentery was like I won't get into here. Let's just say that he said that he couldn't get more than about 10 foot from a toilet, and twice he didn't make it.


BTW, my rabbi has spent some considerable time visiting the Jewish community in Kerala Province.

 

[Vinayaka]

Mostly Delhi, Calcutta, Mumbai (then "Bombay"), Agra, Amritsar, and Kashmir, plus some small villages. He tried to go back several years later to cover more the south but couldn't get the funding from the university.

BTW, in Calcutta he caught amoebic dysentery (forgot that ice was frozen water), he lost over 30 pounds and had to go on antibiotics when he got back. His description of what dysentery was like I won't get into here. Let's just say that he said that he couldn't get more than about 10 foot from a toilet, and twice he didn't make it.


BTW, my rabbi has spent some considerable time visiting the Jewish community in Kerala Province.

I'm mostly just familiar with Tamil Nadu personally. Yes, we can get incredibly sick there. We didn't get full out dysentery, but we did get sick.

There is substantial north/south difference, as you're probably aware. There is also substantial differences between the scholarship of westerners versus the Indian scholarship, as with most anything when looked at from an insider or outsider POV.

 

[metis]

I'm mostly just familiar with Tamil Nadu personally. Yes, we can get incredibly sick there. We didn't get full out dysentery, but we did get sick.

There is substantial north/south difference, as you're probably aware. There is also substantial differences between the scholarship of westerners versus the Indian scholarship, as with most anything when looked at from an insider or outsider POV.

I believe we talked about this before and agreed, namely that "Hinduism" is extremely difficult to even define since there's so much variability.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe we talked about this before and agreed, namely that "Hinduism" is extremely difficult to even define since there's so much variability.

Most likely. I have a pathetic memory.

 

[metis]

Most likely. I have a pathetic memory.

Who are you?

 

[roger1440]

A good friend of mine studied Hinduism in India quite a few years back, and on one day his study group visited a home of a Hindu family that his tour guide knew. As they sat down drinking tea, my friend walked around the house and saw something that really caught his eye: a picture of Jesus on the wall. Also on some other walls and tables were statues of Shiva, Vishnu, etc.

The owner of the house noticed my friend looking at the picture with what must have been a puzzled look, and he asked my friend if he had any questions. My friend asked why they had a picture of Jesus if their household was Hindu, and the man responded back that his family believes that Jesus was one of the manifestations of God.

So, here's my question: is it possible, iyo, that God may have had possibly many manifestations to different peoples in different parts of the world?

God will manifest himself in the hearts of those who do his will. This manifestation will appear as actions. To the best of my knowledge this is in agreement with both Judaism and Christianity.

 

[metis]

God will manifest himself in the hearts of those who do his will. This manifestation will appear as actions. To the best of my knowledge this is in agreement with both Judaism and Christianity.

I agree that this is a possibility, but might it also be "The Gods will manifest themselves in the hearts of those who do their will."...

The single best piece of advice that fits into what you say above was from Gandhi roughly about 30 years ago, and which had the most profound effect on my life in ways that I never could have imagined, and it was this: since God doesn't typically speak to us in words per se, if you have a strong feeling you should do something, first judge and make certain that it's moral, and if it is, do it-- don't make excuses not to. So many times I took that advice with no idea where this was supposedly leading me towards, only to have some of them become life-changing.

My mother died about 20 years ago, and about 10 years after I started taking Gandhi's advice one of the last things she said to me that I still vividly remember was "You sure do get around". If she could only see what happened over the next 20 years, she would realize that what she said was an understatement-- or maybe she did see me.

shalom

 

[paarsurrey]

A good friend of mine studied Hinduism in India quite a few years back, and on one day his study group visited a home of a Hindu family that his tour guide knew. As they sat down drinking tea, my friend walked around the house and saw something that really caught his eye: a picture of Jesus on the wall. Also on some other walls and tables were statues of Shiva, Vishnu, etc.

The owner of the house noticed my friend looking at the picture with what must have been a puzzled look, and he asked my friend if he had any questions. My friend asked why they had a picture of Jesus if their household was Hindu, and the man responded back that his family believes that Jesus was one of the manifestations of God.

So, here's my question: is it possible, iyo, that God may have had possibly many manifestations to different peoples in different parts of the world?

Prophets of G-d are "in the image of G-d" perfectly; to the extent a human could inculcate His attributes; hence all prophets/messengers of G-d like Krishna, Buddha,Zoroaster,Moses, Jesus, Muhammad are manifestation of G-d, in this sense. G-d manifested through them and revealed His message to them; that is another form of His manifestation.

Those who consider Jesus and or Krishna as the supreme-god have not correctly understood this concept; they need to correct it, please.

Regards

 

[metis]

Prophets of G-d are "in the image of G-d" perfectly; to the extent a human could inculcate His attributes; hence all prophets/messengers of G-d like Krishna, Buddha,Zoroaster,Moses, Jesus, Muhammad are manifestation of G-d, in this sense. G-d manifested through them and revealed His message to them; that is another form of His manifestation.

Those who consider Jesus and or Krishna as the supreme-god have not correctly understood this concept; they need to correct it, please.

Regards

Beliefs are not intrinsically statements of fact.

 

[idea]

So, here's my question: is it possible, iyo, that God may have had possibly many manifestations to different peoples in different parts of the world?

Yes, we believe that Jesus manifested himself to many different people - that is the basis of the Book of Mormon, another testament from another manifestation.

 

[metis]

Yes, we believe that Jesus manifested himself to many different people - that is the basis of the Book of Mormon, another testament from another manifestation.

Thanks for adding this to the discussion.