Mankind's Inherent Value

[dybmh]

None should become extinct. Everyone and everything has its purpose and has its place.

 

[Watchmen]

What about womankind and nonbinary kind?

(yes, I'm going to be that person - I have a major pet peeve about referencing the human species as "mankind" - this ain't the 20th century and prior)

Words have meaning and “mankind” is commonly defined as referring to the collective human race, which would of course include women and nonbinary. I would choose your battles more wisely as being “that person” may actually be counterproductive.

 

[Watchmen]

Imagine a scale of inherent value. Directly in the middle of this scale is all of mankind

------ Higher

------ Mankind

------ Lower

Where do you place life outside of mankind on this scale? Do you place all other life on this planet above mankind in importance, does it have the same importance to you, or is everything else less important to you than mankind?

With your answer in mind I want you to answer another question for me. Let's say you were forced to make a decision; you have to either push a button that would wipe out all other life on earth and save mankind only, or push the other button that would wipe out mankind and spare all other life on the planet. In this hypothetical scenario, if one chooses to save mankind then man would be able to persist and thrive without other life existing just fine. What do you choose and why?

If you wipe out all other life, you wipe out mankind. So I’m not really sure how your hypothetical works.

 

[dybmh]

Because it sure sounds like your position when I read what you wrote...

See above post#61. The "sounds" you're hearing are imaginary.

I think you overvalue a big brain and an opposable thumb

Nope.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The problem more often comes from people having a skewed idea of what "fit" means in an evolutionary context about species survival. Typically liking it to "the strong survive". Which is grossly incorrect.

No it's true the strong always survives.

But it depends on what the definition of strong is.

Strong body

Strong mind

Strong resolve

Can be one or all.

 

[dybmh]

If you wipe out all other life, you wipe out mankind. So I’m not really sure how your hypothetical works.

Maybe it's a trap? So the anti-humanists can pile on anyone who disagrees with them?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

See above post#61. The "sounds" you're hearing are imaginary.



Nope.

View attachment 92965

which is not one of the choices of the OP, and I would tend to agree with you on that NONE should become extinct. But then you were talking about our superiority to sea otters and the like...

Okay, I misunderstood you. I apologize, and I'll try to not do that again.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Hmmmm.

If indeed neither choice is acceptable, and none should be made extinct, the question arises of how many species are acceptable for humans to drive to extinction in order that humanity may continue to exist and exploit the Earth?

 

[Soandso]

I can do what an otter does.... and more. Including and not limited to typing this reply to you. Not just an otter.... but I can swim like a fish.

You know, I wish I could swim. Humans are actually really efficient swimmers naturally, but I just never had the time!

I guess my point though is that sure being able to exploit our surroundings is useful, and it can even be advantageous in the game of survival of the fittest, but what good is such ability if we can't control it? With great power comes great responsibility, and so far we've shown that our only thoughts are on doing whatever the hell we want; that doesn't really make us any more advanced or even special than any other animals as far as I can tell in spite of our fancy toys

The human capability for collecting wisdom and transmitting it is unparalleled in the known universe. Do you agree? Is there anything more important and valuable than that?

Yes, life itself. Collective wisdom is a nice tool to have access to for sure! That said, we were doing just fine without it before the invention of writing and probably before human beings (or whatever they evolved from) had the ability to speak at all

Great example. Recording the history of the event is preventive. No other being on the planet can that. Only we humans.

Ehhhh... Theoretically, but in reality not so much. History may not repeat itself exactly, but it certainly rhymes in spite of our collective knowledge

• 2024 Nuclear incident at Khabarovsk, Russia
• 2022-2023 Monticello Nuclear Generating Plant leak
• 2019 Radiation release during explosion and fire at Russian nuclear missile test site
• 2017 Airborne radioactivity increase in Europe in autumn 2017
• 2011 Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster
• 2001 Instituto Oncologico Nacional radiotherapy accident
• 2000 Samut Prakan radiation accident, Thailand.[3]
• 1999 and 1997 Tokaimura nuclear accidents
• 1996 San Juan de Dios radiotherapy accident
• 1994 Theft of radioactive material in Tammiku, Estonia.[4]
• 1993 Tomsk-7 accident at the Reprocessing Complex in Seversk, Russia, when a tank exploded while being cleaned with nitric acid. The explosion released a cloud of radioactive gas (INES level 4).[5]
• 1990 Clinic of Zaragoza radiotherapy accident
• 1987 Goiânia accident
• 1986 Chernobyl disaster and Effects of the Chernobyl disaster
• 1985 Explosion during refuelling of the K-431 (formerly K-31) submarine
• 1982 Lost radiation source in Baku, Azerbaijan, USSR.[6]
• 1980 Houston radiotherapy accident.[6][7]
• 1979 Church Rock uranium mill spill
• 1979 Three Mile Island accident and Three Mile Island accident health effects
• 1974-1976 Columbus radiotherapy accident.[6][7]
• 1969 Lucens reactor
• 1968 Thule B-52 crash
• 1966 Palomares B-52 crash
• 1964 SNAP 9a satellite releases plutonium over the planet earth, an estimated 6300GBq or 2100 person-Sv of radiation was released.
• 1962 Thor missile launch failures during nuclear weapons testing at Johnston Atoll under Operation Fishbowl
• 1961 SL-1 nuclear meltdown
• 1961 K-19 nuclear accident
• 1959 SRE partial nuclear meltdown at Santa Susana Field Laboratory
• 1958 Mailuu-Suu tailings dam failure
• 1957 Kyshtym disaster
• 1957 Windscale fire
• 1957 Operation Plumbbob
• 1954 Totskoye nuclear exercise
• 1950 Desert Rock exercises
• Bikini Atoll
• Hanford Site
• Rocky Flats Plant, see also radioactive contamination from the Rocky Flats Plant
• Techa River
• Pollution of Lake Karachay
• 1945 and 1946 Demon core
• 1942 Leipzig L-IV experiment accident

 

[dybmh]

Okay, I misunderstood you. I apologize, and I'll try to not do that again.

Thank you. Very much. Accepted and forgotten.

( when I read: "You value big brains and opposable thumbs more than ... " That sounds awfully close to: "You value big boobs and a sweet *** more than ... " Naturally I'd be insulted. )

 

[Soandso]

If you wipe out all other life, you wipe out mankind. So I’m not really sure how your hypothetical works.

No worries! Ignore the fact that humankind needs other life to exist. Which is more valuable to you: humankind or all other life?

 

[dybmh]

we were doing just fine without [written history]

In the age prior to deodorant??? We were NOT fine. That's blasphemy. ~kidding~

I'll reply more in depth tomorrow.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Thank you. Very much. Accepted and forgotten.

( when I read: "You value big brains and opposable thumbs more than ... " That sounds awfully close to: "You value big boobs and a sweet *** more than ... " Naturally I'd be insulted. )

Understood...hope to avoid!

 

[Soandso]

... I forgot to vote.... ~runs away to the ballot box~ BYE!

I appreciate your honesty! Thanks

 

[dybmh]

I appreciate your honesty! Thanks

regarding collected wisdom and primitive culture pre written history...

Have you learned about the San people of Africa? How about primitive hunting and stalking, specifically "persistence hunting"? There are no others who did what they were doing, past present, or future. At a certain point, human population. requires a human mind. The increased population is a vital evolved survival trait. And our lack of fur is the reason persistence hunting works.

 

[Soandso]

regarding collected wisdom and primitive culture pre written history...

Have you learned about the San people of Africa? How about primitive hunting and stalking, specifically "persistence hunting"? There are no others who did what they were doing, past present, or future. At a certain point, human population. requires a human mind. The increased population is a vital evolved survival trait. And our lack of fur is the reason persistence hunting works.

I am aware, yes! Humans aren't the only animals that do persistence hunting, though

Persistence hunting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Wolves,[14][15] dingoes,[16] and painted dogs are known for running large prey down over long distances. All three species will inflict bites in order to further weaken the animal over the course of the hunt. Canids will also pant when hot. This has the double effect of cooling the animal via the evaporation of saliva while also increasing the amount of oxygen absorbed by the lungs.

While humans do it different than say, wolves, the concept is still fairly similar. Injure the animal, follow the blood trail/sign, then finish off the animal. Instead of spears they bite. Instead of sweating they pant. Instead of recognizing blood trails and footprints they utilize scent trails. There's more than one way to skin a cat!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

 

[Watchmen]

No worries! Ignore the fact that humankind needs other life to exist. Which is more valuable to you: humankind or all other life?

either/or fallacy

 

[PureX]

Hmmm... What makes self awareness inherently more valuable than not being able to be self aware in the grand scheme of things? Single celled organisms seems to be surviving just fine without self awareness

But there is no possibility of valuation without awareness. An unaware universe has no value at all.

To me it seems that humanity places far more importance on intelligence than it might just warrant.

What does intelligence have to do with it?

 

[Soandso]

either/or fallacy

?... There's no argument I'm trying to construct. I'm simply interested in which you find more valuable and then to possible discuss your reasoning with you if I find your reasoning extra interesting. If you don't want to answer or discuss your preferences that's cool too