Mao Tse-Tung and Pol Pot killed in the name of atheism

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would you say skepticism is incompatible with theism as such? I don't see skeptical views as a barrier to theism, rather I see that as a misperception.

Because gods aren’t a logical inference from evidence. To accept that a god exists involves some sort of unjustified leap in the chain of reason that violates skeptical principles.

I get that there are theists who say they’re skeptics, but in my experience, when you scratch the surface of why they believe, you invariably wind up finding some decidedly unskeptical things.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"While generic atheism on its own, like generic theism, doesn't really do much.."
"This says very little about atheism in general,"

“It is not wrong to say that there have been many killings motivated, in part, by atheism.”

 

[Jumi]

Because gods aren’t a logical inference from evidence.

Are you saying a skeptic logically infers everything from evidence? They must be a rarer existence than previously thought.

To accept that a god exists involves some sort of unjustified leap in the chain of reason that violates skeptical principles.

You certainly believe so.

I get that there are theists who say they’re skeptics, but in my experience, when you scratch the surface of why they believe, you invariably wind up finding some decidedly unskeptical things.

So they're not true skeptics, failing to agree with you on one thing.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you saying a skeptic logically infers everything from evidence? They must be a rarer existence than previously thought.

Everything that involves claims about the nature of reality, yes. When we employ reasoning to come to a conclusion, that reasoning should be sound and rooted in the evidence.

No human being is ever going to achieve this goal all of the time, but skepticism involves an earnest attempt at self-reflection to eliminate errors in our reasoning, and when we find these errors, eliminate them. A skeptic doesn’t enshrine these errors as their core beliefs.

You certainly believe so.


So they're not true skeptics, failing to agree with you on one thing.

They’re not skeptics at all, having rejected the idea that skeptical principles should be applied in all areas of their lives.

 

[Augustus]

“It is not wrong to say that there have been many killings motivated, in part, by atheism.”

Emphasis on 'in part', i.e when forming part of a broader worldview.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Emphasis on 'in part', i.e when forming part of a broader worldview.

So by “motivated in part by,” you meant “not actually motivated by?”

You could have saved some confusion by saying that in the first place.

 

[ronki23]

Which atheist scriptures tell them to murder, rape and enslave in name of atheism?

Atheism doesn't have scriptures. But Mao and Pol Pot still killed many Buddhists (and Muslims) and destroyed temples and religious architecture

 

[ronki23]

Let us not forget that atheist China is at war with Buddhist Tibet and Muslim East Turkestan. I'd like to have some light shed on this as I heard that the Chinese actually give concessions to Tibetans and Uighurs

 

[Augustus]

So by “motivated in part by,” you meant “not actually motivated by?”

No, I mean motivated in part.

Believing that no gods exist can obviously be an important part of a broader worldview.

 

[Jumi]

Everything that involves claims about the nature of reality, yes. When we employ reasoning to come to a conclusion, that reasoning should be sound and rooted in the evidence.

I find no disagreement in that statement.

No human being is ever going to achieve this goal all of the time, but skepticism involves an earnest attempt at self-reflection to eliminate errors in our reasoning, and when we find these errors, eliminate them. A skeptic doesn’t enshrine these errors as their core beliefs.

The problem seems to be that you have a rather limited and limiting view of theism and have made it a core belief.

They’re not skeptics at all, having rejected the idea that skeptical principles should be applied in all areas of their lives.

Really? How do you apply them to your own anecdotal evidence of finding some beliefs in theists that run counter to skepticism? Or do you perhaps claim to have proof?

 

[Jumi]

Atheism doesn't have scriptures. But Mao and Pol Pot still killed many Buddhists (and Muslims) and destroyed temples and religious architecture

So you require that theists have scriptures that explicitly call for some killing for the theists to be responsible, but the atheists you're willing to place blame on squarely without any such calling for it. Seems like a rather strong bias against them.

 

[ChristineM]

If religion is so bad, then no religion is worse as Mao killed to purge China of religion and we saw 20-70 million die under Mao's regime, the most people who died under one person's rule. Granted most deaths were starvation but 14.5 to 18.7 deaths were landowners plus up to 2 million counterrevolutionaries. The majority of Chinese art and architecture was destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. I hate Mao

Pol Pot was even worse; he killed people just because they were Buddhist or Muslim but he also killed professionals (including people who worse glasses), Viets and Chinese. A quarter of Cambodia's population was killed off.

Do atheists and antitheists justify the killings of theists under Mao and Pol Pot?

@Aupmanyav @viole

Pol pot was a Theravada Buddhist who spent 8 years at a catholic school, he based his regime on class struggle. Are you saying his rejection of religion was not influenced by his upbringing?

Mao was similarly raised a Buddhist and rejected his faith in favour of nationalism for his country.

Hitler was was raised Catholic and remained catholic throughout his life, he ruled over a predominantly Protestant country, his forces were predominantly Protestant, his troops were blessed by Catholic priests prior to each engagement and their motto was "got mit uns" = god with us.

Do Christians justify the Holocaust carried out by Hitler?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, apparently, when an atheist regime goes killing, it doesn't matter why or what ideologies are guiding them, they kill in the name of atheism regardless.

 

[Cacotopia]

Usually atheists claim that atheists have never committed horrific crimes against humanity like religious people have. And that life would be peaceful for everyone if only everyone converted to atheism.

Oh please the whole race of humanity is a horror show of one atrocity after another, and people dare to call them civilized. All the behavior we deem as savage still occurs to this very day. Yes some atheists kill hordes of people, but they didn't do it in the name of "nothing" politics or maybe they were just your run of the mill psychos. We aren't some group, a label yes. And I do feel bad every time some a hole goes somewhere and shoots a bunch of people or blows themselves up or whatever, just another bad apple in the rotten basket of humanity.

But no too much self interest keeps us from identifying the bad once and lancing the cancer out of humanity, we need to be humane. There are some kinds of broken that can't be fixed.

 

[Cacotopia]

Those were a whole bunch of different Wars and many generations of time...

Communist China, was a single regime, that killed up to 80 million people in half a century

The killed 6 million in 2 months in Rwanda....

what exactly is your point?

 

[ronki23]

Pol pot was a Theravada Buddhist who spent 8 years at a catholic school, he based his regime on class struggle. Are you saying his rejection of religion was not influenced by his upbringing?

Mao was similarly raised a Buddhist and rejected his faith in favour of nationalism for his country.

Hitler was was raised Catholic and remained catholic throughout his life, he ruled over a predominantly Protestant country, his forces were predominantly Protestant, his troops were blessed by Catholic priests prior to each engagement and their motto was "got mit uns" = god with us.

Do Christians justify the Holocaust carried out by Hitler?

If Mao and Pol Pot were raised in Buddhist upbringing but later rejected those teachings, do atheists justify them killing Buddhists because "atheism is better" and "religion is cancer"?

 

[Jumi]

If Mao and Pol Pot were raised in Buddhist upbringing but later rejected those teachings, do atheists justify them killing Buddhists because "atheism is better" and "religion is cancer"?

I've never seen an atheist justify killing people for the reasons you thought of. Never came to my mind back when I was an atheist that I'd want to kill people for their beliefs. Now that I'm theist, it doesn't occur to me either. Do you believe "atheism is cancer" and do you justify when they were killed by theists?

 

[QuestioningMind]

If religion is so bad, then no religion is worse as Mao killed to purge China of religion and we saw 20-70 million die under Mao's regime, the most people who died under one person's rule. Granted most deaths were starvation but 14.5 to 18.7 deaths were landowners plus up to 2 million counterrevolutionaries. The majority of Chinese art and architecture was destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. I hate Mao

Pol Pot was even worse; he killed people just because they were Buddhist or Muslim but he also killed professionals (including people who worse glasses), Viets and Chinese. A quarter of Cambodia's population was killed off.

Do atheists and antitheists justify the killings of theists under Mao and Pol Pot?

@Aupmanyav @viole

Wrong... they killed in the name of communism, which insists that people worship the state. They simply didn't want to have to compete with religions. Claiming that they killed in the name of atheism is just sad and pathetic.

 

[QuestioningMind]

If Mao and Pol Pot were raised in Buddhist upbringing but later rejected those teachings, do atheists justify them killing Buddhists because "atheism is better" and "religion is cancer"?

I've never heard a single atheist make such a justification. Have you?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Again... pray tell... why did they kill people of faith and drill into children "There is no God"? In the name of Atheism or in the name of Communism? Or do they go hand in hand?

Because they wanted people to worship the state, not some deity. Just look at N Korea. They turned their supreme leader of the state into a god. An example where communism and atheism do NOT go hand in hand.