Mao Tse-Tung and Pol Pot killed in the name of atheism

[Kenny]

Except that there is no magic or magical position in Atheism. There is no Atheist Bible. There is no Atheist Creed. There are no Atheist Rules Of Acquisition.

In direct and opposite to all-- no exceptions-- religion, each of which have multiple books that they consider magical, and "above" human created things-- in spite of the fact that none can prove such claims.



Well, here's the thing: We atheists keep hearing from you christians, how superior being a Genuine Christian automatically makes you. We keep hearing from you christians, how superior your bible's rules are, as compared to ... well, anything.

Okay, if that were even a little true? I would fully expect History to be devoid of any Evil Acts, committed by christians. If the bible is All That? I would fully expect all societies or groups, who push the bible as #1, to be superior in every meaningful way, to all other groups.

Is that the case? No? Why not???

In fact-- History does show us a time when the Bible Was the Rule Of Law--- Europe during the Dark Ages, was pretty much Ruled by Christianity As Government. Religion and Government were interchangeable during that time--- one and the same.

Hmmmmmmmm....... it appears that your Magic Bible isn't all that USEFUL as a MORAL GUIDE. Is it?

You really have a problem Bob. You must have had a very bad experience. Also, your position is quite slanted and filled with error. Dark Ages was not where the Bible was the Rule of Law. It was where men ADDED to what was written so it was more of a political recreated Bible (as so many do today) than making the Bible the rule of law.

Where did you get your Theology from?

On the bright side, love is still the answer and Jesus was the literal expression of that love.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

For Marx, the idea that no god exists was as important ant as the idea that a god does exist in certain religions.

It was a key axiom on which his philosophy was built.

Totally agree. But that philosophy is not atheism. All atheists have philosophies and worldviews, and they would need to be consistent with their atheism.

Just that beliefs don't exist in a vacuum and thus often have consequences.

If one believe there are no gods, this might influence one's attitude towards religions and their adherents, question regarding morality, purpose and existence, etc.

True enough, but there is no causation between atheism and Marxism. I understand you're not claiming there is, but you'd be surprised (maybe?) How often they are conflated.

People kill for their beliefs, not lack of them.

 

[Augustus]

People kill for their beliefs, not lack of them.

I've never met an atheist for whom their atheism didn't constitute at least one belief though...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That the government before was corrupt... I agree. That pastors lost their lives killed by Castro? yes. That churches were bulldozed down and other pastors thrown into jail just because they were Christians? Absolutely. Not by my word but by the word of honest pastors that lived and continue to live in that regime.

I remember when our associate pastor went to Cuba. He took notes of what little food was received by the people of Cuba as well as other situations.. When he got back to the States, those pages had been ripped out of his note pad, courtesy of the government.

What you claim, which I have bolded, is false. But then again, that' so common, it's become a meme...

 

[Kenny]

What you claim, which I have bolded, is false. But then again, that' so common, it's become a meme...

My first hand info says different. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You really have a problem Bob.

Only in your esteemed judgment. Hmmmmm...... I'm a happy guy-- you seem to have a problem with me, though. Who's problem is it, again?

You must have had a very bad experience.

Loving' the judgmental attitude from you, here. It's so ... becoming. It's amazing how many Christians are such incredible Mind Readers....

Also, your position is quite slanted and filled with error.

So you say. This must be more of your Esteemed and Perfect Judgment. Ain't that nice?

Dark Ages was not where the Bible was the Rule of Law.

False. There was no other religion permitted in Europe, under Christianity at that time.

If there was an actual god behind any? It certainly did nothing to curtail Christian Leaders from doing what they did. It's as if this god was utterly and completely powerless to stop any of them....

Hmmmmmm...

Where did you get your Theology from?

Reading the WHOLE bible, in direct contrast to .... say..... you.

On the bright side, love is still the answer and Jesus was the literal expression of that love.

Except when he wasn't.... that whole "hate your mother, hate your father, and follow me" along with the "I have come with a sword" and other places where he wasn't.

Oh, and let's not forget the "lesson of the fig tree" of whom Jesus cursed for no other reason than the poor thing was barren... in the winter....

... Oh! And that one time, where Jesus took whips and chains and ruined several nice Capitalistic Businesses. Apparently Jesus had a problem with Capitalism....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

My first hand info says different. But we can agree to disagree.

"information" of which you are the sole proprietor? Well, ain't that a peach?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I've never met an atheist for whom their atheism didn't constitute at least one belief though...

Me. Nice to meet you.

 

[Kenny]

Only in your esteemed judgment. Hmmmmm...... I'm a happy guy-- you seem to have a problem with me, though. Who's problem is it, again?


Loving' the judgmental attitude from you, here. It's so ... becoming. It's amazing how many Christians are such incredible Mind Readers....



So you say. This must be more of your Esteemed and Perfect Judgment. Ain't that nice?


False. There was no other religion permitted in Europe, under Christianity at that time.

If there was an actual god behind any? It certainly did nothing to curtail Christian Leaders from doing what they did. It's as if this god was utterly and completely powerless to stop any of them....

Hmmmmmm...



Reading the WHOLE bible, in direct contrast to .... say..... you.


Except when he wasn't.... that whole "hate your mother, hate your father, and follow me" along with the "I have come with a sword" and other places where he wasn't.

Oh, and let's not forget the "lesson of the fig tree" of whom Jesus cursed for no other reason than the poor thing was barren... in the winter....

... Oh! And that one time, where Jesus took whips and chains and ruined several nice Capitalistic Businesses. Apparently Jesus had a problem with Capitalism....

If you say so.

 

[Kenny]

"information" of which you are the sole proprietor? Well, ain't that a peach?

Not at all... you can go there and talk to the older pastors too.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If you say so.

No judgmental rebuttal? No attempt to belittle the messenger? wait.... nope, you got that one covered.

 

[Kenny]

No judgmental rebuttal? No attempt to belittle the messenger? wait.... nope, you got that one covered.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Not at all... you can go there and talk to the older pastors too.

I absolutely doubt you-- they were NOT killed JUST BECAUSE they were Christians.

That is your claim. For starters, how on EARTH could the government TELL? A mind-reading ray?

Or?

Was it because of what they DID-- because of their BEHAVIOR? And THAT was what got them killed?

Making dishonest claims as you have done, doesn't help your case.

I have no doubt the TRUTH is, they were killed because of what they DID or REFUSED to do.

Cuba's government being one of repression, and life was dirt cheap-- and very expendable.

But it's long, long, loooong way between "just because they were christians" (false) and "because they were christians, they did X or they refused to do Y" (possible)

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Wow. You are one passive-aggressive serial abuser....

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I've never met an atheist for whom their atheism didn't constitute at least one belief though...

You think people kill for atheism?
That seems as strange as saying people kill for theism.

And if the two are true, what are we left with? That people kill?

 

[ronki23]

Wrong brand. Duuuhhhh..... <sheesh.....>

Or is it that they refused to bow to his Rules, and rebelled, and were killed for their rebellion?

Hmmmmmm....



Correct. You NEVER hear a terrorist battle cry: "DO NOT BELIEVE OR DIE".

But. All too often, we DO hear, "Death to Infidels" or "God is great" or "We don't want your kind around here in God's Country" and very similar slogans.


You got an example? No? Interesting....



Actually.....! No, nevermind... you wouldn't believe me anyway...



Perhaps. Yet, there are atrocities committed in the name of these groups... or on behalf of their gods....

Sure! They were direct competition with his POWER base. I've no doubt their leaders advocated rebellion against their regimes.

It was not because either of these were atheists (in fact, they were not really, but nevermindthat).

Neither was it because the Big Book Of Atheism demanded they kill believers-- wait-- there is no such book. Ooops! (but there are countless theistic books which do demand the death of heretics and non-believers)

This isn't that difficult to understand, unless you are intent on painting a false picture...

False. Repeating the exact same lie does not, in fact, make it any more true.

Neither Mao nor Pot's violent actions represent Atheism in any way. They didn't even claim that it did. Just because someone happens to not believe in God or has hatred for organized religion doesn't magically put blame on atheism when they act like idiots. You are being dishonest about this. There are murderers who are religious. There are murderers who are not. They aren't doing anything "in the name of Atheism". Nice try though.

So you're implying they're not proper atheists and if they were proper atheists they wouldn't have killes millions of people?

You both have confirmation biases against religion:

Hindu scriptures don't say to murder and rape Muslims (Gujarat 2002) or Sikhs (Delhi 1984)

Buddhist scriptures don't say to murder and rape Hindus (Sri Lanka) or Muslims (Burma)

Mao and Pol Pot told their men to destroy religious art and architecture (Cultural Revolution) and to kill Buddhists and Muslims (Cambodia). That's anti-theism

Even today China is oppressing Tibetan Buddhists and Uighur Muslims

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

So you're implying they're not proper atheists and if they were proper atheists they wouldn't have killes millions of people?

No. There is no such thing as a "proper atheist", or even "improper atheist".

You either believe in god-stuff (theist) or you do not (atheist).

Both Mao and Pot believed in god-stuff (theist).

So there you go!

You both have confirmation biases against religion:

I just LOVE how you are now a Magical Mind Reader and you know what's in my head.

Ain't that cute?

Hindu scriptures don't say to murder and rape Muslims (Gujarat 2002) or Sikhs (Delhi 1984)

Buddhist scriptures don't say to murder and rape Hindus (Sri Lanka) or Muslims (Burma)

Yet.... BOTH those groups have managed to kill each other, and other groups they think are NOT in their own tribes.....!

Interesting, is it not?

Mao and Pol Pot told their men to destroy religious art and architecture (Cultural Revolution) and to kill Buddhists and Muslims (Cambodia). That's anti-theism

So? They did not want any competition for their POWER. And you can be a THEIST and also be ANTI-THEIST-- you are simply against any god(s) NOT in your club!

Look how many Genuine Christians™ in the USA, are very hateful against all of Islam-- no matter how moderate or even liberal the version of Islam may be, some Christians are against it-- they are Anti-Theism (with respect to Islam).

Even today China is oppressing Tibetan Buddhists and Uighur Muslims

Indeed. Anyone who refuses to comply with the State's POWER, is subject to censure.

 

[Cacotopia]

I think theists like to confuse belief and opinion especially when an atheist uses the term that they Believe something is this or that. While theists tend to accept the first definition, many if not all atheists are using the second.


believe
bɪˈliːv/
verb

1. 1.
   accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.
   "the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"
   synonyms: be convinced by, trust, have confidence in, consider honest, consider truthful More
2. 2.
   hold (something) as an opinion; think.
   "I believe we've already met"
   synonyms: think, be of the opinion that, think it likely that, have an idea that, imagine, feel, have a feeling, hold, maintain, suspect, suppose, assume, presume, conjecture, surmise, postulate that, theorize that, conclude, come to the conclusion that, deduce

 

[Augustus]

You think people kill for atheism?

No, I was noting that atheism represents belief.

Beliefs may influence other beliefs. For most violent antitheists, their atheism was an important foundation for their anti-theism.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No, I was noting that atheism represents belief.

Beliefs may influence other beliefs. For most violent antitheists, their atheism was an important foundation for their anti-theism.

Yup. For most non-violent atheists the same could be said.
Atheism and whatever beliefs they hold need to be compatible, unless they're completely blind to cognitive dissonance.
But it's the end beliefs that inform action. Not something as meaningless as theism/atheism.