Materialism has officially become dangerous in my eyes.

[Polymath257]

Define your terms and deduce your claim.

Pretty much anything that can be studied by physics is material. The certainly includes energy, momentum, torque, spin, force, etc.

More specifically, anything that interacts with anything material i(and hence that can be measured) s material.

 

[Polymath257]

Are you good with this definition:

2.the philosophical theory that regards matter and its motions as constituting the universe, and all phenomena, including those of mind, as due to material agencies.​

the definition of materialism

?

Yes, and I include both fermions and bosons in the classification 'matter'. So, for example, light is the motion of photons, which are bosons.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, and I include both fermions and bosons in the classification 'matter'. So, for example, light is the motion of photons, which are bosons.

What of the bozo particle?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The subjective symptoms are from physical stimuli, though.

It can be a bit more complicated than that. Something that is nothing more than a concept, such as a religious belief, can very much so effect symptoms someone presents with. With it, our brains can play tricks on us, even "making up" the physical stimuli you thought you took in. Or even with healing, regardless of what someone has, even if it's just something minor that needs antibiotics to heal, and this aspect is healed, there is a chance the person will report not feeling well if they believe there is something amiss from their treatment (this is especially documented where Western medicine is being integrated with traditional practices around the world, again something that medical anthropology brings to the spot light).

 

[Polymath257]

What of the bozo particle?

They are essential components of moronium, the densest known substance, which is quite common in forums such as these.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are essential components of moronium, the densest known substance, which is quite common in forums such as these.

Moronium....isn't that in the same group as Idium.....the purilide group, right?

 

[Polymath257]

Moronium....isn't that in the same group as Idium & purilium?

Indeed. All much more common than expected and incredibly dense. Unfortunately, they can be very reactive, even volatile, under conditions of light pressure.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I think the danger of dogmatic materialists is their desire to limit inquiry, interest and investigation into many paranormal/crypto/alien areas.

They will say there is nothing in those things that have shown themselves worthy yet. This is the danger of dogmatism in my opinion. Critical consideration secretly gets replaced by defense of a worldview. Fortunately though, a sizeable minority continue on with these subjects despite the ridicule.

I do believe there are dogmatic materialists that knee-jerk attack contrary evidence and they are a danger but only in slowing the speed of knowledge progression.

And what contrary evidence do you have? Keep in mind that the key aspect of evidence is that it be evident, meaning detectable, meaning physical. If you know something because you detected it, then you're using the same materialism that you decry here.

Thanks for everything you brave souls willing to believe just about anything without justification have contributed to the human condition. Paranormal and alien studies have enriched my life immensely, as has the belief by others in gods and astrology. I don't know what crypto refers to here, but let's assume reptilians and Bigfoot (cryptozoics).

You people have sped the progression of knowledge despite those pesky scientists with their short-sighted materialism that gave you just about every idea that prolonged your life, made it healthier, made it safer, made it more comfortable, and allowed you to search the world's intellectual and entertainment resources in seconds.

But from the day dreamers, we have all these sterile ideas that do none of those things.

 

[Indagator]

I'm not going to defend materialism but if energy could defeat materialsm wouldn't it have died out with thermodynamics?

Materialism is a very dishonest position. No matte what we will find in the future they will claim it is physical. If Odin would rise up from Valhalla, and spirits of orcs would be running around i am sure materialist would still claim that they are somehow material.

 

[George-ananda]

And what contrary evidence do you have?

Piles of anecdotal and experimental evidence.

Keep in mind that the key aspect of evidence is that it be evident, meaning detectable, meaning physical. If you know something because you detected it, then you're using the same materialism that you decry here.

I include reasoned analysis of human (paranormal) evidence and the teachings of those who I have come to believe possess gifted insight into the supernormal in what I use to form my understanding of reality. This has led me to believe in many things that can not be directly detected physically.

Thanks for everything you brave souls willing to believe just about anything without justification have contributed to the human condition. Paranormal and alien studies have enriched my life immensely, as has the belief by others in gods and astrology. I don't know what crypto refers to here, but let's assume reptilians and Bigfoot (cryptozoics).

The paranormal and spiritual knowledge I have gained has made my life immensely better. These things are my most valued possessions. As for other things, I am interested in learning about everything whether or not I see a practical use for the knowledge.

You people have sped the progression of knowledge despite those pesky scientists with their short-sighted materialism that gave you just about every idea that prolonged your life, made it healthier, made it safer, made it more comfortable, and allowed you to search the world's intellectual and entertainment resources in seconds

But from the day dreamers, we have all these sterile ideas that do none of those things.

I also support science and all its benefits to mankind. But I believe the hard core materialists are living with blinders on.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

My assumptions are that a world exists external to the self and that our senses are capable of informing us about it.

Mine as well, but one day, I realized that the question doesn't need an answer.

If you knew for a fact that your conscious experience was not of what it appeared to be - information about a world that exists objectively outside of and independent from our minds - what would you do differently? You could know for a fact that you were only a vat in a brain subjected to some elaborate hoax, but that wouldn't change the rules of apparent causes and their effects for you. You already know that sticking your hand in what you used to think was fire out there will result in pain. Now you know that you will experience that same pain because of an illusion.

Once you know the rules for matching your will with expected outcomes, what difference does it make why they pertain?

 

[Polymath257]

Materialism is a very dishonest position. No matte what we will find in the future they will claim it is physical. If Odin would rise up from Valhalla, and spirits of orcs would be running around i am sure materialist would still claim that they are somehow material.

So what do you see as the difference between material and non-material?

Is light material? If not, is it physical?

Is there a difference between material and physical?

 

[The magical volleyball]

Why is belief in an immaterial world necessary for life living in a material world?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Materialism is a very dishonest position. No matte what we will find in the future they will claim it is physical. If Odin would rise up from Valhalla, and spirits of orcs would be running around i am sure materialist would still claim that they are somehow material.

There are already people here who identify as materialists who believe ghosts, spirits at al are real but a not well known kind of material substance.

 

[Indagator]

So what do you see as the difference between material and non-material?

At the moment I dont have a coherent definition for "non-material" that i would be satisfied with. But non-material=supernatural... i guess.

Is light material? If not, is it physical?
Is there a difference between material and physical?

I am sure there are differences, but i use them interchangeably.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Materialism is a very dishonest position. No matte what we will find in the future they will claim it is physical. If Odin would rise up from Valhalla, and spirits of orcs would be running around i am sure materialist would still claim that they are somehow material.

I'm not one of them, by the by. I think it would be very dishonest to say I believe in ghosts and spirits if I had to insert it into whatever gap of understanding of the natural world I could find. As Edis called it, metaphysical skullduggery.

But that doesn't change that things you call supernatural are just a bigger part of natural to many people.

 

[Indagator]

I'm not one of them, by the by. I think it would be very dishonest to say I believe in ghosts and spirits if I had to insert it into whatever gap of understanding of the natural world I could find. As Edis called it, metaphysical skullduggery.

But that doesn't change that things you call supernatural are just a bigger part of natural to many people.

If we are talking about idealistic atheists, then all i can say is i find them very illogical. I am not even sure how to approach them (their ideas)... Materialist that believes in ghosts are even weirder, their views are internally incoherent that's for sure.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

If we are talking about idealistic atheists, then all i can say is i find them very illogical. I am not even sure how to approach them (their ideas)... Materialist that believes in ghosts are even weirder, their views are internally incoherent that's for sure.

I don't think it's that weird. Its not that far an offshoot from the 'sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic' idea. They believe ghosts exist, but as a natural, material part of the universe that's just not yet well understood. I don't believe it's evidenced, but I wouldn't call it incoherent.

 

[sayak83]

Indeed. All much more common than expected and incredibly dense. Unfortunately, they can be very reactive, even volatile, under conditions of light pressure.

The worst is of course fundamentium . Not only is it reactive, being the heaviest of the group, it's also highly radioactive. Needs to be approached with extreme caution.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The worst is of course fundamentium . Not only is it reactive, being the heaviest of the group, it's also highly radioactive. Needs to be approached with extreme caution.

It also only glows in the dark.