Mathematical Proof of God?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don’t know if you noticed it, but humanity is sinking more and more into chaos and anarchy with the UN unable to quench the hostilities arising everywhere from China to Russia, Ukraine, Syria and Burma. These are not religious conflicts.

I don't have the pessimism you have. On the whole, I think things are getting better over time.

Of course, this doesn't help you and your religion: to put some urgency into your sales pitch, you need a "doom and gloom" scenario for what will happen if people don't convert to your religion.

Baha’u’llah suggested humanity reconstruct a social order based on justice because only a just order can end these wars. This is why it is so important for humanity to unite so they can unitedly crush the oppressor and establish peace. So long as we are divided into ‘us and thems’ dictators play us off against one another but if we were all only on the side (one humanity family) of humanity we could solve these problems.

You talk about "crushing an oppressor" as if this isn't just another example of the "us against them" attitude you're condemning.

You're still pushing factionalism; you're just doing it hypocritically.

Setting aside the differences among humanity involves secularism, not more religion. Religion creates division; unity through religion is a contradiction in terms, doomed to failure.

 

[shunyadragon]

have no significant health problems other than being 76.

And yes, as I've said, i am concerned for your health, because of your vindictive, sarcastic and childish use of name calling. These are symptoms of health problems

Age it telling.[/QUOTE]

Added your stereotyping age issues is an added problem. I have long-standing employment in health employment during the pandemic up until the present including work with Duke Hospital without any health problems whatsoever.

 

[ChristineM]

Age it telling.

Added your stereotyping age issues is an added problem. I have long-standing employment in health employment during the pandemic up until the present including work with Duke Hospital without any health problems whatsoever.[/QUOTE]

Still sulking?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't have the pessimism you have. On the whole, I think things are getting better over time.

Of course, this doesn't help you and your religion: to put some urgency into your sales pitch, you need a "doom and gloom" scenario for what will happen if people don't convert to your religion.


You talk about "crushing an oppressor" as if this isn't just another example of the "us against them" attitude you're condemning.

You're still pushing factionalism; you're just doing it hypocritically.

Setting aside the differences among humanity involves secularism, not more religion. Religion creates division; unity through religion is a contradiction in terms, doomed to failure.

You’re still missing the point. The oneness of humanity is a widening of inclusiveness embracing everyone and setting aside factions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You’re still missing the point. The oneness of humanity is a widening of inclusiveness embracing everyone and setting aside factions.

No, you're missing the point: a religion is a faction. The act of creating a religion is an act against unity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, you're missing the point: a religion is a faction. The act of creating a religion is an act against unity.

I can see your point but not all religion is against unity however I agree that any religion which does cause hatred it is better to be without it.

If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious act,” said ‘Abdu’l-Bahá. “Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion.”

 

[shunyadragon]

Added your stereotyping age issues is an added problem. I have long-standing employment in health employment during the pandemic up until the present including work with Duke Hospital without any health problems whatsoever.

Still sulking?[/QUOTE]

With your background, you should be well aware of the problem with your bitter sarcastic name-calling posts.
No sulking at all, your unfortunate negative personal attacks continue, I guess you are not stopping your negative off-topic posts after saying for the fourth or fifth time you stated you are not going to continue,

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can see your point but not all religion is against unity however I agree that any religion which does cause hatred it is better to be without it.

If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious act,” said ‘Abdu’l-Bahá. “Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion.”

Yes, all religion is against unity.

A kind and peaceful faction is still a faction.

 

[joelr]

Since the discoveries of the incredible fine tuning of the universe and the proposal of the big bang theory and indications that the universe may have had a beginning the proposal of the universes intelligent design or purposeful creation has been a credible question. A question that materialists detest and even refuse to give credence to.


I wonder why the consideration of intelligent design is so abhorrent to so many people? Here is some quotes from interesting scientists about God…or intelligent design…

“Those who say that the study of science makes a man an atheist, must be rather silly people.” Max Born

I am not an atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. Albert Einstein

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense. Carl Sagan

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” Werner Heisenberg

It isn't always abhorrent it just doesn't have evidence. There are also scientists who consider intelligent design to not be supported by any evidence. Sean Carroll has a few lectures on the reasons:

Dr. Mersini-Houghton says that the chances of a Big Bang happening by chance are 1 / 10^{10^123}, which is infinitely impossible. What selected this initial condition? From the Duke research blog

Why is that infinitely impossible? That number isn't any percentage of infinity? We don't know the initial conditions so that number means nothing.
Did the conditions which the big bang arose take place in a dimension of time? We don't know but maybe a pre-cursor to our spacetime sat around for 10^ {10^23} years? Or far longer, so it's still "we don't know". By saying this you are forcing the issue to lean towards intelligent design.

If something couldn’t be created by chance what is left? It would have to be intelligently directed processes or some kind of natural inevitability. Current cosmological efforts including Dr. Houghton’s are attempting to find/prove and describe that inevitable natural process which I believe is important and should be done. But not at the expense of refusing to acknowledge an alternatively evidenced hypothesis.

Except it could be created by chance. Quantum mechanics allows this given enough time.

You are in essence correct. The concept of multiple universes has arisen in more than one theory of the origin and observation of our universe.

The “hypothesis” - since it is an interpretation of an existent theory - of what I believe popularized the modern term “multiverse” was presented by Hugh Everett in the 50’s. Known as the “many worlds interpretation” of Quantum Mechanics. And is the one I had in mind.

.

Hugh called it Relativistic State if I remember and a physicist wrote a piece on it in a science magazine in the 70's and called it many worlds.

All of these ideas are arguing for a deity (or not). None of these concepts suggest Zeus, Krishna, Yahweh or any other theistic God from a story is real. Those are syncretic creations made by people. But they have strongly impacted ideas about deism as well. A creative force that is undivisible and the base of reality doesn't need to be conscious in the way stories make Gods into thinking beings.

 

[rational experiences]

What about the true example.

Earth as a planet evolved it's own body and heavens

No human is involved so nor is human maths that you human calculate.

A sun. Is exact named a God as it owns a body a human says is a sun...and a God. Also not maths.

That sun attacked earth also not maths.

The example says not maths over and over again.

The human egotist using maths is the only incorrect position.

 

[ChristineM]

Still sulking?

With your background, you should be well aware of the problem with your bitter sarcastic name-calling posts.
No sulking at all, your unfortunate negative personal attacks continue, I guess you are not stopping your negative off-topic posts after saying for the fourth or fifth time you stated you are not going to continue,

Sorry bud, you are the one insulting and name calling. Shall we call i n the staff to check it out.

Their advice will probably be to put each other on ignore, an action i suggest right at the beginning of your extended rant

 

[joelr]

I don't think I brought in the math...I travel pretty light.
So, what doesn't have a value to assign to it? Well, that which is undefined of course. Which is what? Lol

1 divided by 0 being infinity isn't correct. It's undefined. So the answer to 1 divided by 0 doesn't have a value/number. So the number is not defined.

 

[joelr]

I don't see the relevance of this.

The relevance is Yahweh is a myth like all deities. The theology often associated with Yahweh that Aquinas came up with are concepts Plato came up with for something else (not a theistic deity). This is one small evidence of syncretism in the religion.

I'm not sure what you mean by made up? Seems the concept is a logical progression of the consequences of inflating familiar concepts.

Made up in the sense that Islam can take all those ideas and say Allah is all of them. Hindus can say Brahman or Vishnu contains all these qualities.
Taking a deity from mythology and importing older metaphysical concepts and saying "look my God is all these things" is made up. It's real in concept but probably not actually real.

Do you consider the entirety of philosophic thought "made up"? Consider that even in science we "make up" models to mimic reality. Yet we are not creating reality in doing so. Or are we?

Philosophy is methods to think about reality. We don't all agree on which philosophy is useful but they are all possible ways to think on reality.
Science is making models of the physical world and testing and confirming if they are true or false.
Deities are things in stories.

Neither does quantum mechanics according to the scientists that study it.

Yes but Quantum mechanics is the most accurately tested theory in all science. Especially Quantum Electrodynamics.
Deities have zero evidence. The concept of a base substance that cannot be divided as the base of reality is from Islamic theology.
It's supposed to be the most basic and simple thing. But it's purely hypothetical. Adding consciousness technically detracts from that theology but also is just another layer of hypothetical fiction.

What are you saying....humans started with the conception of an undefined deity and then worked to define it as the basis of reality? So humans started with an unrealistic conception and worked to make it realistic?

No, information from the first known deity comes from the first known author Enheduanna. Her writings on Inana are similar to Yahweh thousands of years later. https://babylonian-collection.yale....Dijk (1968) - Exaltation of Inanna_YNER 3.pdf

But the Greeks moved metaphysics forward quite a bit. Aquinas and other theologians used that to update Christian theology. It's a mix of ideas.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sorry bud, you are the one insulting and name calling. Shall we call i n the staff to check it out.

Their advice will probably be to put each other on ignore, an action i suggest right at the beginning of your extended rant

Number six? of insulting posts stating you an ending post.

 

[ChristineM]

Number six? of insulting posts stating you an ending post.

Would you care to count the number of posts in which you have been insulting and/or abusive?

 

[shunyadragon]

The Baha'i faith is just one more small religious faction in a broad spectrum of religious factions. Its existence increases division; this works against world unity.

The problem of fallible humans failing in the quest for unity does not reflect negatively on the principles of the Baha'i Faith. which do reflect a slow evolving changing world from a tribal religious world to a greater sense of the need for a more unified consensus This is not a magic bullet that changes the world overnight.

I am a Baha'i, but also more of a 'Universalist' believer in the future diversity of allowing the acceptance of all beliefs including atheists and agnostics, but not necessarily all embracing the same faith. There are the seeds of this new world that exist today, but even though also the tribal violent world of ignorance persists, but I am optimistic for the long-term future of humanity.

 

[shunyadragon]

Would you care to count the number of posts in which you have been insulting and/or abusive?

NONE.

Number seven. This is getting obsessive, and like a broken record repetitive.

 

[ChristineM]

NONE.

Number seven. This is getting obsessive, and like a broken record repetitive.

None?

I count 11 before giving up. And you are repeating what i said 5 days ago.

It really must be bad for you to be shown you are wrong, so bad you waffle, abuse and insult for days to hide it. As i said,i worry for your health, there is no abuse there just genuine concern but i think you refuse to accept it.

 

[shunyadragon]

None?
View attachment 65466

I count 11 before giving up. And you are repeating what i said 5 days ago.

It really must be bad for you to be shown you are wrong, so bad you waffle, abuse and insult for days to hide it. As i said,i worry for your health, there is no abuse there just genuine concern but i think you refuse to accept it.

Number eleven, This is getting obsessive, and like a broken record repetitive.

Repeating is the only recourse for obsessive posting behavior with only air ball posts without substance on your part..

 

[ChristineM]

Number eleven, This is getting obsessive, and like a broken record repetitive.

Repeating is the only recourse for obsessive posting behavior with only air ball posts without substance on your part..

#12 before loosing count