Maximum taxation - good or bad?

[nnmartin]

I was thinking more along the lines of 'NNMartin PDR'

 

[YmirGF]

The govt will provide it from the National fund.

but the entitlement schemes will be kept honest and relatively basic.

ie: govt will provide housing, health , jobs and unemployment benefit (if necessary)

the days of having 3 houses ,5 cars and servants will be over for the good of the nation.

Which reduces the populous to mere cogs in the wheels of a well oiled machine. Honest, to whom? And what is "relatively basic", exactly? Tell me, do you have any funds left over to endow the arts, bankroll the exploration of space, fund expensive science projects. I'm hoping that leaving education off the list was a simple oversight, but given your reasoning displayed thus far, I'm not entirely persuaded it is an oversight.

So, I guess it's also a given that all land holdings will be dissolved so that none can have "3 houses, 5 cars..." etc... You do realize that the cross-over from the current situation to the situation you propose would result in a long and bitter civil war, right?

 

[nnmartin]

. Honest, to whom? And what is "relatively basic", exactly?

honest to generally perceived notions of human need.

Citizens will be allowed 1 small flat or room in a communal block as in accordance with their labour value.

A weekly food and transport allowance will be available for all through work or unemployment benefits.

Health care will be free.

any extras needed above this level will have to be gained by extra work, or work deemed to be of a higher quality - up to the maximum allowed.

Tell me, do you have any funds left over to endow the arts, bankroll the exploration of space, fund expensive science projects

Perhaps, though in some instances these kinds of projects may need to be limited.

I'm hoping that leaving education off the list was a simple oversight, but given your reasoning displayed thus far, I'm not entirely persuaded it is an oversight.

Education will be highly valued and would be one of the key functions of the new system.

So, I guess it's also a given that all land holdings will be dissolved so that none can have "3 houses, 5 cars..." etc... You do realize that the cross-over from the current situation to the situation you propose would result in a long and bitter civil war, right?

It is the current situation of capitalist profiteering and corruption that will lead to this war in the first place.

The new system will take effect afterwards when people finally realise that it is needed.

 

[Kathryn]

The govt will provide it from the National fund.

but the entitlement schemes will be kept honest and relatively basic.

ie: govt will provide housing, health , jobs and unemployment benefit (if necessary)

the days of having 3 houses ,5 cars and servants will be over for the good of the nation.

You do realize that the number of households in the US - and the possible taxes from those households - are miniscule in the total scheme of things, right?

And by the way, three houses, five cars and servants mean more people employed and providing for their families.

And finally, but most importantly - if everyone is on the dole, where do you think the money in the "National Fund" will come from?

 

[Revoltingest]

honest to generally perceived notions of human need.
Citizens will be allowed 1 small flat or room in a communal block as in accordance with their labour value.
A weekly food and transport allowance will be available for all through work or unemployment benefits.
Health care will be free.
any extras needed above this level will have to be gained by extra work, or work deemed to be of a higher quality - up to the maximum allowed.
Perhaps, though in some instances these kinds of projects may need to be limited.
Education will be highly valued and would be one of the key functions of the new system.
It is the current situation of capitalist profiteering and corruption that will lead to this war in the first place.
The new system will take effect afterwards when people finally realise that it is needed.

I just figured out what my chosen profession would be in your society.....
Traitor, saboteur, revolutionary, terrorist & guerrilla warrior.
With this moniker, I gotta be!

 

[YmirGF]

I just figured out what my chosen profession would be in your society.....
Traitor, saboteur, revolutionary, terrorist & guerrilla warrior.
With this moniker, I gotta be!

My thoughts, exactly, RevoltingOne. I just loved the line about some "Libertarian freedoms" would have to be curbed. Most likely, owning a gun... so that his government could dictate its terms to a defenseless populous.

 

[Revoltingest]

My thoughts, exactly, RevoltingOne. I just loved the line about some "Libertarian freedoms" would have to be curbed. Most likely, owning a gun... so that his government could dictate its terms to a defenseless populous.

Government knows best, so any deviation from the prescribed utopian norm must be crushed.
It reminds me of when Ned Flanders ruled the world.

 

[nnmartin]

And by the way, three houses, five cars and servants mean more people employed and providing for their families.

2 unoccupied houses, and 3 or 4 cars not being used regularly are examples of wasted resources.

and the servants are only encouraging laziness in their masters.

so the progressive system that I am proposing will make better uses of these two types of commodity (labour and material goods)

Work will still be done of course, but in nationalised industries which support the whole of society rather than just the moneyed sections.

And finally, but most importantly - if everyone is on the dole, where do you think the money in the "National Fund" will come from?

They won't be on the dole , but working in any number of national schemes.

The dole will only be for those who cannot work for a genuine reason.

 

[nnmartin]

I just figured out what my chosen profession would be in your society.....
Traitor, saboteur, revolutionary, terrorist & guerrilla warrior.
With this moniker, I gotta be!

A position for you could easily be found in the Army.

Here, your combative leanings could be re-focused in a way that would help the nation, and then you would be a very valuable member of the new society.

 

[Revoltingest]

I position for you could easily be found in the Army.
Here, your combative leanings could be re-focused in a way that would help the nation, and then you would be a very valuable member of the new society.

Gimme the weapons & enjoy the show!

 

[Kathryn]

Speaking of taxes - today my husband and I get to go mail a huge check to the IRS. That's right, Virginia - some people don't get a tax refund. Some people actually have to send MORE to the IRS in April.

 

[swamplizard]

Speaking of taxes - today my husband and I get to go mail a huge check to the IRS. That's right, Virginia - some people don't get a tax refund. Some people actually have to send MORE to the IRS in April.

Self-employed Kathryn?

 

[YmirGF]

Speaking of taxes - today my husband and I get to go mail a huge check to the IRS. That's right, Virginia - some people don't get a tax refund. Some people actually have to send MORE to the IRS in April.

My last boss felt that you should never expect a refund and that you should always be cutting a check at tax time. His point was that you should be enjoying your money, not using the government as a piggy bank.

 

[swamplizard]

My last boss felt that you should never expect a refund and that you should always be cutting a check at tax time. His point was that you should be enjoying your money, not using the government as a piggy bank.

Hi YmirGF,

He is correct, providing that you do not incur underpayment penalites and interest. In short, the more you have to send in without paying said extras, the more potential you have had for earning additional income on the government's funds.

best,
swampy

 

[Revoltingest]

Speaking of taxes - today my husband and I get to go mail a huge check to the IRS. That's right, Virginia - some people don't get a tax refund. Some people actually have to send MORE to the IRS in April.

But it all goes to such good causes.....
GSA Made Up ‘******* Award’ to Justify Dinners : Roll Call News
Middle School Student Suspended For Hugging Teacher « CBS Charlotte


OK, the 2nd link was gratuitous.

 

[Revoltingest]

My last boss felt that you should never expect a refund and that you should always be cutting a check at tax time. His point was that you should be enjoying your money, not using the government as a piggy bank.

Since there are costly penalties for underpayment if you didn't receive a refund for the
prior year, I shoot to alternate refund & payment years. Sometimes it even works.

 

[YmirGF]

Hi YmirGF,

He is correct, providing that you do not incur underpayment penalites and interest. In short, the more you have to send in without paying said extras, the more potential you have had for earning additional income on the government's funds.

best,
swampy

Understood. I should have included that, but felt that it was simply a given for anyone with an IQ over 49.

 

[Kathryn]

Self-employed Kathryn?

Yes. And I'm not complaining - we are blessed to be able to work hard and make a good living, and I don't mind some of my tax dollars going to help those who are less fortunate than we are - in addition to what we give to charitable causes.

 

[Erebus]

The main problem I see with a "tax the rich" mentality is that it can only really be accomplished through tax brackets. The problem with tax brackets is that they tend to screw the people who just earn enough to warrant higher tax.

In England we have VAT (Value added tax) which I think could be a good idea if it was properly implemented. Theoretically luxury items warrant a tax and so the more luxuries you buy the more tax you pay. The problem with this is partly that it depends on consumerism which isn't great during recession and secondly what is considered "luxury" seems to be totally arbitrary. Sanitary towels have VAT for crying out loud.

Now I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to tax and economics, but I honestly don't think it's possible to have taxes that are completely fair on everybody.

 

[Revoltingest]

Here is some more encouragement for paying those taxes.....
Shovel Ready in San Fran: $205,075 to

$200K+ to transplant a common shrub.....geeze, what do they smoke in SF?