Maybe Some in The Men's Right Movement Want Violence

[Curious George]

And yet...



Apparently those issues are just whiny separatists complaining about female sexuality and psychology.

Or maybe it's just that they're "derailing" by talking about issues that effect men.

But, I don't she has any problems with a men's rights movement trying to ensure that no presumptions favor either sex in family law. Nor do I think she has a problem with men addressing discipline and educational disparities. Nor does she have a problem with a movement addressing male victims of rape.

However her statement that the Mrm sites she has observed is ... Could be addressed by someone providing a productive Mrm site. Have you read some of the garbage that gets posted? I am not saying that there are not helpful, productive, proactive elements. But, if we were to divide the Mrm into productive and reactionary elements, it seems to me also that reactionary far outweighs productive.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is that all you can throw at us. An out-dated piece of arty satire?

I have seen far worse coming from MRA's and they are not writing satire. And the MRA's are far more prolific than Valerie Solanas, who is a mere footnote in the Feminist movement.

Solanas was also severely mentally ill and tried to kill Andy Warhol.

 

[dust1n]

Solanas was crazy, for sure, willing to murder someone over a screen play. She was also the victim of incest and sexual assault. That book was written almost fifty years ago. I've haven't really ever seen anything comparable to it. I just thought it was funny, in retrospect, of course.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Some of the **** they say reminds me of some of the stuff that the most radical feminists say. Every movement has its extremist nutjobs. Two sides of the same coin.

What I quoted was not from some fringe of the Men's Right Movement, it was from A Voice For Men's website. That is not the fringe, they are at the center of the MRM and they condone violence against women.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the whole movement is about anger. In fact that is the rhetoric coming out from that movement.

If there are things to be angry about, then it would make sense to
join some movement to correct those things. But violence? Nah.

So what is a person suppose to think when one of them writes stuff like this:

"I began predicting that in a culture where the law protected one demographic, but did not govern that group, and where it governed another demographic, without protecting that demographic, a society would adapt. The members of a social caste governed but not protected by law, would begin to seek redress of grievance through other means, such as the use of retributive violence."

The only conclusion I can come to is that definitely some in the MRM want to pursue violence against women.

Without a context it's hard to discern precise meaning.
But violence against government is a strong possibility.

Get a divorce and go through a custody hearing and then see if you still need an answer to that question.

Only men still register for the draft.
Men are a higher proportion in prison in USA.

 

[Revoltingest]

But back to the middle, from what I've seen online...

Most MRA sites that I've visited are separatist by nature, and look for ways to either separate themselves from women, marry more submissive/demure women (quite a few advocate marrying Asian women because they're assumed to be less like the American angry feminist)....

Marry Asian women cuz they're more submissive?
Boy, are they in for a surprise.

Pssst. (whispers)*It's the system that assumes women are the natural caregivers and men are the natural providers. Something feminists have been arguing against for a while.*

No matter what the cause, it makes sense that men's rights advocates would want to change the situation.
It's great that some feminists want the same, but the groups have a different focus. Tis fine for both to exist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

And yet...



Apparently those issues are just whiny separatists complaining about female sexuality and psychology.

Or maybe it's just that they're "derailing" by talking about issues that effect men.

First, I didn't say they were "whiny".

Second, I find very relevant issues in society where I think men get the short end of the stick, and I've consistently argued in favor of social and legislative change for men to be given greater access to child care, father's custody being closer to mother's custody grants (and that includes changing the social paradigm of when mom and dad are married that dad is able to take off work to care for sick children or drive them to soccer practice as much as working moms are given).

Third, I'm addressing the OP directly by how there's been reactionary elements in some MRA sites, and that push to plot vengeance against their ex-wives or ex-girlfriends....or from PUA sites that push for men to get "game" by deliberately blurring the lines of consent to be "a real man."

Finally, I've argued against the SCUM manifesto and the hashtag campaign #killallmen....AND I've spearheaded topics of discussion that speak out against male rape, prison rape, and domestic violence against men. Just to give you a heads up on my MO on gender theory and politics.

Back to the kitchen, you. This is a manly discussion! :149:

I dare you to tell me to make you a sandwich.

Go ahead....I dare you. :angel2:

But, I don't she has any problems with a men's rights movement trying to ensure that no presumptions favor either sex in family law. Nor do I think she has a problem with men addressing discipline and educational disparities. Nor does she have a problem with a movement addressing male victims of rape.

However her statement that the Mrm sites she has observed is ... Could be addressed by someone providing a productive Mrm site. Have you read some of the garbage that gets posted? I am not saying that there are not helpful, productive, proactive elements. But, if we were to divide the Mrm into productive and reactionary elements, it seems to me also that reactionary far outweighs productive.

CG understands me!!

You know, several years ago, a local MRA group specifically asked for me to meet with them as a desire to begin a feminist-masculinist dialogue in the local area (they knew I'm rather active in the area). So I went with their suggestion and read Warren Farrell's "The Myth of Male Power".

I found the book to have a few salient points and I found the group to have some valid grievances. The problem came when the meeting started as them saying to me "you know, feminists **** me off," and then continued from there about how upset they were.

I mean, I don't mind being a soundboard. But I thought it was going to be a dialogue, or an opportunity to begin an action plan. Instead, it was turning into a list of complaints they had about feminism. I injected some humor into the meeting, and then found my way out. I was disappointed that we didn't discuss more from the book. I wish I would have known I was going in to meet with them to do nothing but listen to their frustrations. It turned into an unproductive meeting for us all.

I don't think they should be silenced. At all. But I'd like to meet, though, to plan, and to see how we can put our heads together to create awareness and start petitioning and contacting our city councilmembers and school boards and law enforcement agencies and state senators over where there is gender inequality.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Marry Asian women cuz they're more submissive?
Boy, are they in for a surprise.

I know, right? LOL

No matter what the cause, it makes sense that men's rights advocates would want to change the situation.
It's great that some feminists want the same, but the groups have a different focus.

Absolutely. And I totally support their efforts to create change in law enforcement procedures for domestic violence to include men, to organize and start battered men shelters, and to create change in the huge disparity of boys being put on ritalin for ADHD far more often than girls (thereby creating a drugged out generation of boys).

Show me a petition that looks for effective change to keep men from being abused physically, sexually, and barred from their kids just for being men, and I'll sign it without injecting a feminist plug in there.

 

[Revoltingest]

You know, several years ago, a local MRA group specifically asked for me to meet with them as a desire to begin a feminist-masculinist dialogue in the local area (they knew I'm rather active in the area). So I went with their suggestion and read Warren Farrell's "The Myth of Male Power".

I found the book to have a few salient points and I found the group to have some valid grievances. The problem came when the meeting started as them saying to me "you know, feminists **** me off," and then continued from there about how upset they were.

I'm not surprised. It reminds me of trying to discuss feminism with feminists...some of them can be a little difficult.
(Note that I used "some".) Good reason though they may have, it's more about what they need to say than what I say.
Sides which shouldn't be in opposition can certainly seem like they are.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm not surprised. It reminds me of trying to discuss feminism with feminists...some of them can be a little difficult.
(Note that I used "some".) Good reason though they may have, it's more about what they need to say than what I say.
Sides which shouldn't be in opposition can certainly seem like they are.

Sure I can see that.

 

[Penumbra]

The problem of custody discrimination is an actual problem for men, imo.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure I can see that.

I often have conversations IRL with true believers of one sort of another (eg, creationists,
"progressives", Dems, Pubs). Things can work out well, but the big question is how long it
takes to get past the scripts (you know...what they expect to hear, & what they've heard
from someone else) they bring to the discussion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Warning: explicit language in the link.

On the extreme end of the spectrum:

To be fair, that site has a place for people to rant about guys, too. So a woman can go on there and post something equally nasty about men. In fact, the replies to that post are just as nasty and stupid. It's just a flaming trollathon. Lol.

 

[psychoslice]

I think if women were the strongest sex, they would be more dangerous than men.

 

[Bunyip]

'The Men's rights Movement', an organisation for sexually and socially incompetant men whose sense of personal entitlement leads them to feel outraged by the fact that they did not naturally gravitate to the top of the social pyramid just because they have a penis.

 

[Revoltingest]

'The Men's rights Movement', an organisation for sexually and socially incompetant men whose sense of personal entitlement leads them to feel outraged by the fact that they did not naturally gravitate to the top of the social pyramid just because they have a penis.

What does my social incompetence have to do with wanting equal treatment
under the law, eg, military draft, status in civil court, status in criminal court?
Yeah, we're entitled to that.
Oh, you neurotypicals...always dis'n people you don't understand.

 

[Bunyip]

What does my social incompetence have to do with wanting equal treatment
under the law, eg, military draft, status in civil court, status in criminal court?

Awwwwwww. You poor poor thing. Have the nasty girls been picking on you?

You are equal under law, there is no military draft, you are equal in civil court and in criminal court.

There has been no draft for decades.

 

[Revoltingest]

Awwwwwww. You poor poor thing. Have the nasty girls been picking on you?

Hey, is that a dingo steal'n yer baybee?

You are equal under law, there is no military draft, you are equal in civil court and in criminal court.
There has been no draft for decades.

Perhaps you don't know Ameristanian history & law.
I was subject to the draft, & was due to be sent to Viet Nam but for Nixon cancelling it just in
the nick of time. But males still must register for it, & females are exempt. You might not believe
this was or is a problem, but then it wouldn't be for you (a ferriner).

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Awwwwwww. You poor poor thing. Have the nasty girls been picking on you?

You are equal under law, there is no military draft, you are equal in civil court and in criminal court.

There has been no draft for decades.

There is no draft going on right now but it is still only males over in the US who have to register for Selective Service. Which is not fair at all.

 

[Penumbra]

I think the number of areas where men face a lot of injustice is a lot smaller than the number of areas where women face a lot of injustice. In other words, I believe male privilege overall is very real, as expressed politically, socially, financially, etc. But, for some of those areas, I do believe men have some legitimate injustices and I support them in those areas.

-Men should have equal say in child custody. I feel strongly about this because it happened to me: my father lost custody of four-year-old-me to my mother who was significantly less qualified to have custody of me.

-Both men and women should be able to be drafted, if there's going to be such a thing as a draft. (Generally I'd argue strongly against a draft 99% of the time.)

-Men should not get more prison time for the same crimes as women.