Mea Culpa about Islamic Terrorism.

[Kalibhakta]

Ex-Liberal turned apolitcal anarchist here.

What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

I have all these years thought Al-Qaeda was an anti-American reactionary force due to how we destroy their nations and the religious nature was kind of an excuse, like how Communism was an excuse to base men to do base things.

That has not changed. What has changed is I just came to understand the Religion is not a stand in for a non-existent generic demagogic ideology, like Communism or Fascism. It is its own ideology, fueled by our actions but providing its own spark

This has made very clear that ISIS is a (One out of Many) view based on how one could view the Islamic texts as a way of doing things.

I want to make clear that obviously not all Islam is like this, nor this is a majority view.

But it is a view.

...

I don't know how to take this. I have tried to get out of my "Us Vs Them" mindset I had under the Bush years and I don't want to go back. When Obama started behaving like Bush, I realized that the Liberalism I loved is not different from the Conservatism I hated.

Somebody talk to me as a human please. I don't like where my mind is going on this

 

[Tumah]

I think your stated action here is one of the big problems in the world and I think its rooted in political correctness.
There shouldn't be any mindsets. You should be judging each case on its own terms. Not trying to find excuses why something shouldn't be what it clearly seems to be. It doesn't make you a better person. It makes you a person out of touch with reality. And at the end, you will be the one to suffer the most.

I don't mean you specifically. I am referring to people in general that are like this. This is not an attack on you.

 

[Kalibhakta]

Do I want to believe that we are in another war of civilizations? That this is somehow necessary? I believe that all nations are evil because they last on human blood and human enslavement. Tumah, I don't like Zionism, and sometimes that manifests into ugly feelings. I don't like that in me, not at all. I don't want to view view all non-shia/sufi Muslims like this either.

My best friend is a Shia Muslim. I love him and his religion. It isn't about this lovely dovey PC bull that all beliefs are somehow valid. It's about not wanting my heart to be consumed by the same thinking as a liberal that turned me into a nervous wreck.

The saint of my School of Hinduism, Ramakrishna said:

"God-consciousness does not come so long as there are three things in the heart,—shame, hatred and fear."

I don't want to hate anybody.

 

[Bunyip]

Communism began as an idealistic approach to forming societies - just as has capitalist oligarchy, it was nothing to do with an excuse to do base things. It was a genuine attempt at establishing a utopia.

 

[Kalibhakta]

The Bolsheviks took it as an excuse to destroy White Russia. Mao used it as an excuse to destroy 4000 years of Chinese history. Marx never said to commit genocide or purges, but it is what they used as an excuse. The ideology didn't match the actions

 

[Bunyip]

The Bolsheviks took it as an excuse to destroy White Russia. Mao used it as an excuse to destroy 4000 years of Chinese history. Marx never said to commit genocide or purges, but it is what they used as an excuse. The ideology didn't match the actions

Sure, such is ideology.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hmm. So you're feeling disillusioned with politics and the state of the world and not sure what to think or where you fit in? Just making sure I'm reading you right.

As for me, I've taken a hard turn to the right. I tried to be liberal and a leftist but it doesn't match up with reality, imo.

 

[Kalibhakta]

Is it a stupid belief to want to believe that people have faith in terrible things because they are misguided and not actively malevolent? If this is turning people bad and not, say, people being war victims or oppressed and clinging to an ideology where they can vent....if it is just people being turned bad by the ideology and not the other way around I have some serious questioning to do in my life.

 

[Bunyip]

Hmm. So you're feeling disillusioned with politics and the state of the world and not sure what to think or where you fit in? Just making sure I'm reading you right.

As for me, I've taken a hard turn to the right. I tried to be liberal and a leftist but it doesn't match up with reality, imo.

LOL There is an old saying that if you are not a lefty when you are young, you have no soul - and if you are not more to the right when you are older you have no brain. Not that I agree, but it fit your comment so nicely.

 

[Kalibhakta]

Hmm. So you're feeling disillusioned with politics and the state of the world and not sure what to think or where you fit in? Just making sure I'm reading you right.

As for me, I've taken a hard turn to the right. I tried to be liberal and a leftist but it doesn't match up with reality, imo.

If there is a Global Jihad to destroy non-Muslims by some amount of people who are not being exploited by people who want to enrich themselves or become petty warlords, that conflicts with the my innate pacifism. Not the soft, wussy "Heck I don't want to die in Vietnam" kind that is so popular, but the kind where you know some guy wants to kill you and you let him because you think that you killing him even in self defense is a sin. I'm not going to act like some Hippy and pretend I have a moral high ground over anybody else. Maybe I am soft or weak or something.

But even if I accept that there is a form of Islam with an undefined amount of people belonging to it that want to destroy the free world...won't that just make me a right wing version of my old liberal self? Capitalism vs Truth, Islamic Terrorism vs Truth. I don't want to hate whole classes of people anymore. It makes me a sick bitter person

 

[Rick O'Shez]

This has made very clear that ISIS is a (One out of Many) view based on how one could view the Islamic texts as a way of doing things.

ISIS looks to me like a fascist state using religious ideology.

 

[Bunyip]

If there is a Global Jihad to destroy non-Muslims by some amount of people who are not being exploited by people who want to enrich themselves or become petty warlords, that conflicts with the my innate pacifism. Not the soft, wussy "Heck I don't want to die in Vietnam" kind that is so popular, but the kind where you know some guy wants to kill you and you let him because you think that you killing him even in self defense is a sin. I'm not going to act like some Hippy and pretend I have a moral high ground over anybody else. Maybe I am soft or weak or something.

But even if I accept that there is a form of Islam with an undefined amount of people belonging to it that want to destroy the free world...won't that just make me a right wing version of my old liberal self? Capitalism vs Truth, Islamic Terrorism vs Truth. I don't want to hate whole classes of people anymore. It makes me a sick bitter person

Well don't hate them then. Why would you feel you have to?

 

[Bunyip]

ISIS looks to me like a fascist state using religious ideology.

Indeed. Well said.

 

[Kalibhakta]

Well don't hate them then. Why would you feel you have to?

It's not that. I'm just really trying to escape the black and white thinking that dominated me at stage at my life, and I fear if I accept that what the link I show says, then I will relapse into a dualistic world view.

I already feel that way about Israel. I am not proud of that.

It's like changing masks but not the Illness that causes me to do this

 

[Bunyip]

It's not that. I'm just really trying to escape the black and white thinking that dominated me at stage at my life, and I fear if I accept that what the link I show says, then I will relapse into a dualistic world view.

I already feel that way about Israel. I am not proud of that.

It's like changing masks but not the Illness that causes me to do this

Underneath the labels, most of us are just people. Moslem, Jew, Christian, atheist - they are just labels. You can hate certain beliefs or ideas without ever hating a person.

 

[Kalibhakta]

This is a strange existential blob of gibberish that came about that I like some schools of Islam, but understand the same school of thought can also produce bad thoughts. This was just a big intellectual version of an overflow error.

I am sorry, and I thank everybody who talked to me

 

[Kirran]

We could hate Hinduism for the widow-burning, for the animal sacrifices, for the massacres of Muslims, for the misogyny and the homophobia. But it wouldn't make sense, as there's far more to it than these terrible examples of what some Hindus say is a part of their faith.

Same for Muslims.

 

[Kalibhakta]

We could hate Hinduism for the widow-burning, for the animal sacrifices, for the massacres of Muslims, for the misogyny and the homophobia. But it wouldn't make sense, as there's far more to it than these terrible examples of what some Hindus say is a part of their faith.

Same for Muslims.

Thank you Kirran. I knew that all along. I guess at it was realization that these people really believe this religiously and are not using it just as a political stand in for, lets say, Communism in East Asia was used for as a crunch for legitimate protest that mutated into the horror that we all know today that horrified me

 

[Bunyip]

Thank you Kirran. I knew that all along. I guess at it was realization that these people really believe this religiously and are not using it just as a political stand in for, lets say, Communism in East Asia was used for as a crunch for legitimate protest that mutated into the horror that we all know today that horrified me

Sure, but you have to remember that governments reflect the worst of us, the average Jo/Joanne in all of those abhorrent states were still decent people. As Julius Caesar said - government is the natural enemy of mankind.

 

[Kalibhakta]

Sure, but you have to remember that governments reflect the worst of us, the average Jo/Joanne in all of those abhorrent states were still decent people. As Julius Caesar said - government is the natural enemy of mankind.

I suppose you are right. Thank you for humoring me at that dark moment.