Meaning or Happiness? Which Would You Pick?

[Sunstone]

If for some reason, you had to make a choice between, on the one hand, being happy in life, or, on the other hand, having a strong sense of meaning and purpose in life, which would you choose? And why would you choose it?

Please assume for the sake of this discussion that there is no "middle way". You can choose one option or the other, but not a mix of both. If you choose being happy, you will live without a strong sense of meaning and purpose in life. If you choose living with a strong sense of meaning and purpose, you will not be very happy.

Also, please assume that your happiness, if you choose it, would be hedonistic -- that is, it would be based on your success at obtaining pleasure and avoiding pain -- and in that sense be self-centered. While your meaning or purpose in life, if you choose it, would to some significant extent involve service to others -- and in that sense be oriented towards other people.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I would choose happiness, because I can make my own meaning, and change it whenever I like.

Hedonistic life seems much more enjoyable and satisfying than fated service, or to put it another way, "Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven".

 

[Sunstone]

I would choose happiness, because I can make my own meaning, and change it whenever I like.

Sounds like you would prefer to have both.

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven".

That's quite an interesting way of looking at it.

 

[Caladan]

If for some reason, you had to make a choice between, on the one hand, being happy in life, or, on the other hand, having a strong sense of meaning and purpose in life, which would you choose? And why would you choose it?

To me, genuine long term happiness cannot come without discipline and long term investment by me. Without following what I believe is my purpose in life or following what I find meaning in I can't have genuine sustainable happiness. I have had plenty of happiness and pleasure in life, including probably what you term here as hedonistic, but that is just part of an exoskeleton of a larger and wider spectrum of a deeper experience and existence. Following my purpose gives me an inner serenity and focus that lasts. In addition I love testing myself and my limits, taking on challenges, making effort in order to obtain satisfying results, etc. That is what I believe to be true 'happiness' in life. In fact I think the search for happiness itself is vain and superficial in itself, I think a true adult takes the pleasures and pains of life as they come. Savor the pleasure and enjoy it as it comes, and on the other hand deal with your struggles.
I think in a way, a healthy human being needs to cultivate the inner predator, the survivor. Just like predators in nature get satisfaction from the hunt, from physical effort, so do we as humans need to find our place in the natural world. If you want your little piece of heaven... fight for it, or at least work and make effort to achieve it.

 

[Sunstone]

To me, genuine long term happiness cannot come without discipline and long term investment by me. Without following what I believe is my purpose in life or following what I find meaning in I can't have genuine sustainable happiness. I have had plenty of happiness and pleasure in life, including probably what you term here as hedonistic, but that is just part of an exoskeleton of a larger and wider spectrum of a deeper experience and existence. Following my purpose gives me an inner serenity and focus that lasts. In addition I love testing myself and my limits, taking on challenges, making effort in order to obtain satisfying results, etc. That is what I believe to be true 'happiness' in life. In fact I think the search for happiness itself is vain and superficial in itself, I think a true adult takes the pleasures and pains of life as they come. Savor the pleasure and enjoy it as it comes, and on the other hand deal with your struggles.
I think in a way, a healthy human being needs to cultivate the inner predator, the survivor. Just like predators in nature get satisfaction from the hunt, from physical effort, so do we as humans need to find our place in the natural world. If you want your little piece of heaven... fight for it, or at least work and make effort to achieve it.

Fascinating! I think you're onto something there. So, is it safe to say that, if you were forced to make a stark choice between a happy life and a life filled with meaning and purpose, you would choose the life with meaning and purpose?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Sounds like you would prefer to have both.

That's quite an interesting way of looking at it.

Not intentionally, but it generally is impossible to not have a purpose in one's life. Every act of volition is based on a purpose you give your actions. It's not "I was placed here by (insert higher power) to bestow good fortune to the innocent and justice to the sinners", but "I'm going to the store because I want milk" still counts.

 

[Caladan]

Fascinating! I think you're onto something there. So, is it safe to say that, if you were forced to make a stark choice between a happy life and a life filled with meaning and purpose, you would choose the life with meaning and purpose?

Yes. It happened over and over again in my life. I think that realistically when we choose self discipline we can reach more solid goals that will generate genuine and long lasting happiness, then if we simply seek pleasure and freedom. To me, real freedom is independence and purpose. Doing what you're supposed to do. Contrary to common belief, one has to work hard to actually be truly free. It's not a natural state unless you are born into unlimited abundance and options.

 

[Secret Chief]

We all have to construct meaning to go on living. The rest is icing.

 

[dgirl1986]

I find it difficult to seperate the two. If I have meaning I am likely to be happy. If I am happy I am likely to have meaning so it wouldnt matter which I picked.

 

[Sunstone]

I find it difficult to seperate the two. If I have meaning I am likely to be happy. If I am happy I am likely to have meaning so it wouldnt matter which I picked.

I'm tempted to ask you to choose between one or the other for the sake of discussion -- picking whichever is more important to you. But I don't want to press you if you feel that's rude.

 

[dgirl1986]

I'm tempted to ask you to choose between one or the other for the sake of discussion -- picking whichever is more important to you. But I don't want to press you if you feel that's rude.

Its not rude. I would rather have meaning than be airheadedly happy lol

 

[Sunstone]

We all have to construct meaning to go on living. The rest is icing.

That's interesting. A survivor of a Nazi concentration camp, who was also a psychiatrist, wrote a book about his experience in which he said that he was often enough able to tell who would survive the camp and who wouldn't based on whether they had a strong sense of meaning to their lives. Those who lived merely for happiness didn't survive, while those who lived for meaning survived (assuming they escaped being executed).

 

[Sunstone]

Its not rude. I would rather have meaning than be airheadedly happy lol

Thanks!

 

[Sculelos]

I would much rather choose meaning and purpose because I don't think life is suppose to be all that pleasant.

 

[Penumbra]

I'd pick a sense of meaning.

 

[Sunstone]

I'd pick a sense of meaning.

As would I, if the choice came down to one between meaning and happiness. However, if the choice came down to one between meaning and an especially intense feeling of being alive, I'd pick the latter. Feeling alive in that way might not make you happy, but it makes you want to live. Or at least so I think.

 

[Falvlun]

I'd go happiness. If you aren't happy then I don't see how having a strong sense of meaning would be fulfilling. Sure, it might keep you going in the morning, but sounds a bit plodding.

Though, I don't think that your addendum-- that the happiness would be inherently selfish and the meaningful purpose would be good to others-- is necessarily fair.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Definitely happiness. What good is a sense of purpose if it doesn't make you happy?

 

[Me Myself]

THe disctinction sounds "poetic" more than anything to me.

I am not even very sure I can get into the mind frame.

What good does purpose make if it does not bring some kind of pleasure? If having "meaning" didn't brought you pleasure on some level or avoided you pain on some level, you wouldn't prefer it over "happiness"

I am not sure if it is a semantic thing.

would this be an acceptable rephrasing of your question? :

Do you prefer a life of pleasure coming from immidiate sensorial stimuli (food, sex, nice things to see) that is not based on empathic social pleasure or would you prefer a life full of empathic social pleasure without any other direct souce of pleasure?

If that was, I would prefer to be happy through making others happy than through alcohol sex and food.

If your question actualy is:

Would you prefer to be completely miserable and have no happiness whatsoever in your life but have something you call "meaning" that does not give you any pleasure and does not avoid you pain on any level in no way or would you prefer to be happy by sensorial overload?

I would choose to be happy by sensorial overload. (provided I am not making others suffer in this way (or at least not bringing more suffering than I bring happiness (even if I dont realize/care about giving them happiness) )

And if for some reason I would choose purpose (which wouldnt register unless this purpose was an altruistic one) the "me" in such a life would likely choose happiness over purpose, because provided he does not find any pleasure in this life and is not avoiding any pain, why on Earth would he like to have a purpose?

I mean you like something because it gives you some kind of pleasure or avoid you some kind of pain. That's it.

 

[Me Myself]

If for some reason, you had to make a choice between, on the one hand, being happy in life, or, on the other hand, having a strong sense of meaning and purpose in life, which would you choose? And why would you choose it?

Please assume for the sake of this discussion that there is no "middle way". You can choose one option or the other, but not a mix of both. If you choose being happy, you will live without a strong sense of meaning and purpose in life. If you choose living with a strong sense of meaning and purpose, you will not be very happy.

Also, please assume that your happiness, if you choose it, would be hedonistic -- that is, it would be based on your success at obtaining pleasure and avoiding pain -- and in that sense be self-centered. While your meaning or purpose in life, if you choose it, would to some significant extent involve service to others -- and in that sense be oriented towards other people.

Re reading it I think it sounds to me as if you were asking about two different wys to be happy.

Because in your purpos example you tlk about having "some" happiness but I understand in your meaning example there must be "no" meaning?

How would you be defining "happiness" for this things?

I am very intriged with the question but I feel I lack some importan understanding about it's nature which may be why I am so curious.

I mean, to me "happy" means "I am very satisfied or totally satisfied with my life right now" so it confuses me if you ask me if I would choose to not be very happy and satisfied with life.

The reason I might choose to be unhappy(no middle ground, so for me unhappy= miserable, deeply depressed, suicidal, etc) would be for gain for other people maybe, it would obviously not be a decision made for my sake, why would I choose to be unhappy? it would be made for someone else gaining, not me.

I mean, theorically speaking, I am sure I could find a lot of causes where I could sign in, be more or less miserable but help a lot of people. Maybe I would even be happy, but if I only cared for purpose, why wouldn't I have signed myself off for service for other people?

I find most people that find their "purpose" in service find it so because their purpose makes them happy. It maks them happy to see others happy. Most people that do this wouldnt have chosen their life "purpose" the way they did haven;t they got happiness out of it.

I mean most of the time when people tel me "for me this is the meaning of life"

what I hear is "this is what would make me more satisfied with my life " which to me is "this is what would make me most deeply happy. This is my deepest thirst than needs being quelled"

To me that is happiness, so the distinction sounds like martyrdom to me.

Is that your question? is it about martyrdom said in a different way? Because I believe even most martrs while they may have had great suffering, dd what they did out of true passion and following what they saw as the most fulfilling thing to them, what made them happy in a way so deep any oher superificial way of satisfying themselves wouldn't have managed to make them reach such level of happiness.

Is it about a way martyrdom?