Medical versus Mental Health

[Palehorse]

If Jesus was put on the cross again, would he be prescribed oxycotin for the pain or prozac for the mental condition?

 

[Aquitaine]

Why is discussion of mental health issues considered so taboo? "Rude" even?

If someone describes some oddity about a part of their body and one replies with information pertaining to how that certain oddity could be indicative of a particular medical condition as it is often a symptom of such that is usually taken as simply information.

If someone describes an oddity about the way they think or perceive something and one replies with how that certain oddity could be indicative of a particular mental condition as it is often a symptom of such that seems to be taken as "rude" or mean or calling names.

If one has the first scenario they aren't likely to be deemed confrontational or rude, but the second they will be.

Shouldn't mental health be openly discussed more anyway? There is such a stigma attached to it. Like it is an insult or slight to even have it hinted upon that someone could have a mental health issue. People don't respond with such an air of being appalled if you mention that they could have a medical condition that should likely be checked into, but mention just the possibility that someone could have a mental condition and people lose their composure entirely.

Shouldn't mental health be as openly discussed as medical? Wouldn't it increase the chances of treatment and acceptance? The more people are shush shush about it the more it is treated as some dirty little thing to be ashamed of.

People are more comfortable talking about physical health issues than mental ones because (with physical health issues) there aren't a bunch of other people either:
*Claiming their illness is made up/a sign of weakness or,
*Dehumanising them as faulty beings who are of lesser capability and status.

 

[Draka]

*Dehumanising them as faulty beings who are of lesser capability and status.

Which is kind of messed up really, considering it can be much harder to deal with a mental illness than a physical one. Sure, one may have physical limitations or lots of physical rehab to do and all kinds of things attached to their physical illness or injury, but with mental, it's something that is always there, always must be dealt with, in a person's day to day thinking and how they view and handle the world around them and within themselves. A person with a mental illness who is capable and is handling their illness is someone who may be far stronger than most, where it really counts.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not only is there a taboo against talking about it, but America's mental health care system is very broken. It's underfunded and overburdened. A lot of the people who work in mental health services and recovery programs have no idea what they're doing, and many of them aren't even trained to work in the field!

I go to a community clinic and it's a damn mess. It's right next to the YMCA downtown. It's full of homeless people, drug addicts, alcoholics and psychotics. People start freaking out and the staff has to focus on dealing with them and you might have to miss your appointment because the person you've come to see is busy dealing with them. It's horrible. I have severe depression and anxiety, and socially isolate myself. I have panic attacks and I have to be around this mess every time I go there. Last Wednesday, a psychotic woman started talking to me and was all delusional. Then she started getting all aggressive. This is not a good environment for depressive types. I was there to see my psychiatric nurse but couldn't see her because I was 10-15 minutes late and she was busy helping someone who was freaking out. I waited about 2 hours to see if they could fit me in. Nope. Ended up being rescheduled.

Then if you tell them you're suicidal, they send you off to this organization called Netcare Access, which is like the mental health version of the ER. It's like a prison. They even lie to you to make you come. They don't tell you what it's about. If you don't come on your own, they send the cops. I was put in there in February. Guy comes to my door and tells me that I have to come in. I was like "okay". I thought it was for an assessment or something. In hindsight, I should've known something was up because he kind of threatened me by mentioning cops. But I come in and they take all my belongings and put me in a cold, stark room. The place is like a prison. The cops are bringing in psychotic types who are freaking out. The only phone you can use is out there in front of everyone. You can hear the staff making comments about patients and arguing with doctors on the phone. The doctors and even the ambulance crew hate them. One guy there decided it was a good idea to humiliate me infront of everyone when he found out I have bedbugs. I said "boy, you sure do know how to handle depressed people. You sure this is the right line of work for you?".

They don't separate the psychotics from the depressives. They treat everyone the same, like we're all just bonkers and need to be on lockdown. Our complaints are treated with suspicion, because we all must be delusional, right? It's very dehumanizing. The ambulance crew I talked to agreed with me. They know the place is a mess. Going to the ER is better because at least you get your own room that's not freezing cold and there's a TV.

I've been insulted by doctors, nurses and my ex-case worker. There's a huge lack of understanding and basic compassion. It makes me distrust mental health professionals and I don't tell them a lot of things I feel and do because I'm afraid they'll just lock me up, when that just makes it worse. I need intensive outpatient therapy. I need social skills training and exposure therapy, not to be locked up in a cold cell-like room. But I haven't been in therapy for over 2 years because referrals seem to get sucked into a void! I'm a human being and it's not my fault I'm sick. It makes you feel like you shouldn't even bother to seek help! Anyone in my position would be suicidal! That's a normal reaction to my situation! I don't deserve to be punished for it!

 

[DawudTalut]

I have manic depression, I also run a semi successful violin repair and sales business, I am not at all ashamed to have a mental illness, in fact I tell almost anyone about it because I want them to be aware that having a mental illness does not stop me from being a successful person, and providing valuable services for my customers.

Peace be you.
But you seems quite normal (much better than many) from your posts!...Just seems little over weight.
Sometimes when people read medical information, they feel they have much from symptoms mentioned there.

Useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional_family

 

[Lyndon]

Manic depressives are quite normal most of the time when they are not cycling in a manic or depressive episode, I'm fortunate that since quiting drugs and alcohol 8 years ago, the manic and derpessive part of my illness are in remission, even though I still need the medicine to sleep. Schizophrenics are less likely to have totally normal periods, often cycling from bad to worse. however there are some exceptions that do quite well, though usually not all the time (on medication)

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I have a mental health problem and its taken a long time to be open about it - even though i work in mental health services myself.

I have encountered many people, most of two particular churches, who told me that I was suffering from mental health problems because I was allowing myself to and I just needed to pray more and 'be well' and then everything would be ok.

I tried talking to someone about mental illness once. They didn't know about me, but they said that it was caused by simply not being motivated to be "happy." And if I trusted in God - then there should be no reason at all to not be ok.

I know similar is said about physical health problems, but I have met so many people who do not believe that MH problems can be the result of changes in brain chemistry etc. "It's not the illness, it's the person.."

An evangelical friend of mine told me that I am likely to have some kind of demonic influence.

I work hard to promote understanding and awareness of mental health problems... but even I feel like there are certain people and places I cannot be open about my own struggles.

And that, fire and brimstone yelling and blustering (these Pentecostal mountain churches get down!) or even the milder forms of guilt tripping blame game is the biggest thing wrong with those that practice my religion, Christianity. It reeks and effects everyone from PhD preachers to saved moms and children. Its comparable in some ways to real world terrorism. It harms MORE people than terrorism. It turns more people away from God than the Devil could do on his best day! It harms those that often can not defend themselves even from passive discussion. The shy, the meek and the loving are often casualties that may never return to God. These people are the favorite lambs of Jesus's flock. I am an ordained minister but don't preach for fear I may harm someones faith or get something wrong. However every now and again someone will talk with me knowing I have a background in psychology and as a minister. I listen to them and you know how it goes our inner selves mingle, its a therapeutic warmth. I usually urge them to see a therapist if they are having serious problems with depression or the major mental illnesses, because I have a hunch that all serious mental illness is mostly biological.

God bless this forum~

 

[YmirGF]

Why is discussion of mental health issues considered so taboo? "Rude" even?

If someone describes some oddity about a part of their body and one replies with information pertaining to how that certain oddity could be indicative of a particular medical condition as it is often a symptom of such that is usually taken as simply information.

If someone describes an oddity about the way they think or perceive something and one replies with how that certain oddity could be indicative of a particular mental condition as it is often a symptom of such that seems to be taken as "rude" or mean or calling names.

If one has the first scenario they aren't likely to be deemed confrontational or rude, but the second they will be.

Shouldn't mental health be openly discussed more anyway? There is such a stigma attached to it. Like it is an insult or slight to even have it hinted upon that someone could have a mental health issue. People don't respond with such an air of being appalled if you mention that they could have a medical condition that should likely be checked into, but mention just the possibility that someone could have a mental condition and people lose their composure entirely.

Shouldn't mental health be as openly discussed as medical? Wouldn't it increase the chances of treatment and acceptance? The more people are shush shush about it the more it is treated as some dirty little thing to be ashamed of.

As I dumped on the folks in BadChat last night, I'm dealing with a sister with distinct mental health issues right now. It is so very difficult to deal with because she senses nothing is wrong and yet I am almost literally dumbfounded by every decision she makes. It's like her capacity to think things through - in even the most elementary way - is gone. Her behavior is simply reactive, but at the same time, she is an intelligent person which makes it especially hard to deal with. How to describe? It's like she was woven this incredibly thick web of deception all around her psyche and now nothing gets in or gets out. This left me with he unhappy task of demanding that she set up a three-way appointment between herself, her doctor and me. I simply cannot trust a single word she tells me as she is incapable of any kind of meaningful follow through.

As I told the folks last night, one thing I am going to push hard for at the meeting is that my sister be forced to undergo a full psychiatric assessment to determine competency. The downside to that is I'm not sure what I will do if they determine that she is mentally competent. Then what? What worries me is that she is smart enough to know when she is in a corner and has to perform well for the testing period.

A bit of background. Her first husband was a drunken high school jock. I didn't like him, but he wasn't too horrible. Her 2nd husband beat the living daylights out of her, although now that I think of it she never really has said how she got away from him.... (I'll have to carefully investigate that) ... Her 3rd husband was a real piece of work and in essence, mentally raped her. I don't know how else to put it. Yes, she still thinks he is in line for Sainthood and yet everyone I have spoken to about him agrees he was a controlling, manipulative psycho. They say love is blind, but in this case its not only blind but in pretty deep denial.

The only reason I even mention all the above is because now I am in the awkward position of being "the bad guy" for bringing her shortcomings to her attention. In more lucid moments, she does sort of warm up to the idea that she might have some problems. She is also being treated for a litany of physical ailments and is on morphine for chronic pain and anti-depressants for her depression and god knows what else. On top of this she sleeps for about 12-14 hours a day. I won't even go into the absolute disaster zone she left her last home in. It was like something out of a bizarre horror movie. I've never seen anything even remotely like it in the home of the most laid back bachelor who never cleaned up.

Frustrated in paradise.... ... as I say, if she skates through the eval, if the doctor say no to the eval... I'm not sure what I can do aside from catapulting her off the property and out of my life.

Any questions or advice would be greatly appreciated. In all honesty, I am fairly adept at amateur level psychology and have managed and trained staff over the years, but this is way past my pay grade to deal with. @Windwalker @Draka @1137 @Sunstone

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

My mom got early onset dimeinita, and I was her sole caretaker after my sister broke down and she went to a nursing home. For two years I took care of Mom at home and watched her slide into insanity went from the most loving gentle and caring person to a suspicious accusing 90 pound ghost. If I had it to do over again I would have set her up in a nursing home. I don't trust those places but I would have been better off to go see her daily even though I was and am fully disabled for now due to the metal plates and pins migrating and breaking in my legs, back, and arm. I don't care if I had lost the house and everything else because the mental and physical toll was so great. My advice to you is try to find someone that specializes in hording. Then as you are already doing get her diagnosed. Then develop a plan for health care. Both of you will be way better off than you trying to shoulder that kind of load. Good luck and God bless you and your sister ~

 

[1137]

As I dumped on the folks in BadChat last night, I'm dealing with a sister with distinct mental health issues right now. It is so very difficult to deal with because she senses nothing is wrong and yet I am almost literally dumbfounded by every decision she makes. It's like her capacity to think things through - in even the most elementary way - is gone. Her behavior is simply reactive, but at the same time, she is an intelligent person which makes it especially hard to deal with. How to describe? It's like she was woven this incredibly thick web of deception all around her psyche and now nothing gets in or gets out. This left me with he unhappy task of demanding that she set up a three-way appointment between herself, her doctor and me. I simply cannot trust a single word she tells me as she is incapable of any kind of meaningful follow through.

As I told the folks last night, one thing I am going to push hard for at the meeting is that my sister be forced to undergo a full psychiatric assessment to determine competency. The downside to that is I'm not sure what I will do if they determine that she is mentally competent. Then what? What worries me is that she is smart enough to know when she is in a corner and has to perform well for the testing period.

A bit of background. Her first husband was a drunken high school jock. I didn't like him, but he wasn't too horrible. Her 2nd husband beat the living daylights out of her, although now that I think of it she never really has said how she got away from him.... (I'll have to carefully investigate that) ... Her 3rd husband was a real piece of work and in essence, mentally raped her. I don't know how else to put it. Yes, she still thinks he is in line for Sainthood and yet everyone I have spoken to about him agrees he was a controlling, manipulative psycho. They say love is blind, but in this case its not only blind but in pretty deep denial.

The only reason I even mention all the above is because now I am in the awkward position of being "the bad guy" for bringing her shortcomings to her attention. In more lucid moments, she does sort of warm up to the idea that she might have some problems. She is also being treated for a litany of physical ailments and is on morphine for chronic pain and anti-depressants for her depression and god knows what else. On top of this she sleeps for about 12-14 hours a day. I won't even go into the absolute disaster zone she left her last home in. It was like something out of a bizarre horror movie. I've never seen anything even remotely like it in the home of the most laid back bachelor who never cleaned up.

Frustrated in paradise.... ... as I say, if she skates through the eval, if the doctor say no to the eval... I'm not sure what I can do aside from catapulting her off the property and out of my life.

Any questions or advice would be greatly appreciated. In all honesty, I am fairly adept at amateur level psychology and have managed and trained staff over the years, but this is way past my pay grade to deal with. @Windwalker @Draka @1137 @Sunstone

In short for now, the psych evaluation is a good idea. Perhaps if you could convince her to see and individual counselor first it would be easier for her, and the counselor could then decide on the psychological evaluation. The key to the situation is empathy. Go out of your way to be empathetic, though of course be harsh if Shes making an honestly terrible decision. You don't want to sound judgemental or condescending even through her interpretation. And I don't intend to make that seem easy. The morphine has to go, there are no benefits to be had from mixing pain medicine and mental health issues outside of short term use like for surgery. I guarantee things get a little better after sobriety. I don't know what exactly her pain is,could you elaborate?

 

[YmirGF]

In short for now, the psych evaluation is a good idea. Perhaps if you could convince her to see and individual counselor first it would be easier for her, and the counselor could then decide on the psychological evaluation. The key to the situation is empathy. Go out of your way to be empathetic, though of course be harsh if Shes making an honestly terrible decision. You don't want to sound judgemental or condescending even through her interpretation. And I don't intend to make that seem easy. The morphine has to go, there are no benefits to be had from mixing pain medicine and mental health issues outside of short term use like for surgery. I guarantee things get a little better after sobriety. I don't know what exactly her pain is,could you elaborate?

Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome ... and depression... I just noticed that each of those has overlapping symptoms... hmmmm... But, that is why I need to hear it from her doctor. My eldest sister is a RN in Washington State and she is not keen on the morphine either simply because 40 years ago our sister was a heroin addict for about 3 years.

To be honest, empathy is breaking through my frustration. It's hard to stay mad at someone who is incapable of reasonable reactions. I also prefer laughing over getting bent out of shape every other moment.

 

[1137]

Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome ... and depression... I just noticed that each of those has overlapping symptoms... hmmmm... But, that is why I need to hear it from her doctor. My eldest sister is a RN in Washington State and she is not keen on the morphine either simply because 40 years ago our sister was a heroin addict for about 3 years.

To be honest, empathy is breaking through my frustration. It's hard to stay mad at someone who is incapable of reasonable reactions. I also prefer laughing over getting bent out of shape every other moment.

Yeah, opiates are the worst thing for chronic pain, probably worse in the end than learning to suffer through it. With depression in play it's going to be even worse. Ignoring that it is quite possible that you're sister needs a different anti depressant, the morphine will do more harm than the antidepressant will do good.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

The level of chronic pain would indicate whether or not to use hi power short acting opiates. Those that have under-treated chronic pain are the most likely to self medicate with a bullet. Hmm what would be worse writhing in pain for years or decades or being addicted to the pain meds that give relief? Only a non biased MD can make that decision and it should be an option.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hmm what would be worse writhing in pain for years or decades or being addicted to the pain meds that give relief?

The pain is by far waaaay better than the addiction. The problem with the pain meds (opiates) is they give relief, but as tolerance builds the user needs need more to get relief, and the tolerance builds some more, and eventually the pills don't even give relief but the user is left with a horrible addiction.

 

[Lyndon]

A lot of anti depressants can push one into mania or psychosis.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

A lot of anti depressants can push one into mania or psychosis.

I didn't know that. Is it a common occurrence?

 

[Lyndon]

I didn't know that. Is it a common occurrence?

There's always a risk certain anti depressants (like prozac) can push a person with tendencies into a manic episode, its happened to me in the past. Usually its the anti depressants that reduce the amount you sleep.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I didn't know that. Is it a common occurrence?

It can happen, but generally speaking no. Kind of on the same level with many OTC or common prescription meds may come with dire side effects, but the chances are so low that it's negligible and we certainly take greater risks in our common every day living.

 

[Lyndon]

It can happen, but generally speaking no. Kind of on the same level with many OTC or common prescription meds may come with dire side effects, but the chances are so low that it's negligible and we certainly take greater risks in our common every day living.

Actually pushing patients into mania is a common enough scenario that many anti depressants are just not prescribed by doctors to patients that have manic tendencies.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Why is discussion of mental health issues considered so taboo? "Rude" even?

If someone describes some oddity about a part of their body and one replies with information pertaining to how that certain oddity could be indicative of a particular medical condition as it is often a symptom of such that is usually taken as simply information.

If someone describes an oddity about the way they think or perceive something and one replies with how that certain oddity could be indicative of a particular mental condition as it is often a symptom of such that seems to be taken as "rude" or mean or calling names.

If one has the first scenario they aren't likely to be deemed confrontational or rude, but the second they will be.

Shouldn't mental health be openly discussed more anyway? There is such a stigma attached to it. Like it is an insult or slight to even have it hinted upon that someone could have a mental health issue. People don't respond with such an air of being appalled if you mention that they could have a medical condition that should likely be checked into, but mention just the possibility that someone could have a mental condition and people lose their composure entirely.

Shouldn't mental health be as openly discussed as medical? Wouldn't it increase the chances of treatment and acceptance? The more people are shush shush about it the more it is treated as some dirty little thing to be ashamed of.

Most of most minds are driven by subconscious impulses.
That the very question of mind provokes the typical 'rude' response shows to what extent this is true.

We exist in a mostly post-military society. It was only through extreme conditioning of the sub-conscious that people were (are)
driven to line up in row upon row of cannon-fodder and slaughter one another for centuries. These processes are ingrained from infancy
through-out youth and into adulthood. The most vicious part of the cycle is the school-system which enforces people
into their regimented 'classes' through all manner of subconscious threats. The uniform of dress, the cropping of hair, the noose-around the neck (tie),
the suit (of armor) are all the residue of centuries of conflict. Nowadays most people march out into the automobile-centered society becoming
fodder for machines, with 1.5 million killed yearly without much eye-lid batting.

The car is essentially a military tank. People do not need several tons of iron around them to get from A to B. But it is subconsciously a defense-mechanism.
The motor-car requires such focus of attention that it has a dampening effect on the psyche. One is trained into the short-attention span
of an animal fighting for survival on a daily basis. Grinding of 'dumb' animals into the ground and the repression of natural empathy is the order of the day.

People often talk of hypothetical "machines taking over the world" in sci-fi scenarios.
And most see themselves as the hero fighting the evil machines in these musings.
But in reality, its already here.
And most people are the fodder that have not the courage to oppose them.

They suffocate the spirit with their banality.