Meditation Sickness

[crossfire]

This particular thread is a spin-off from this thread:

How do you convert a Buddhist from all of thire magic?

How do you convert a Buddhist from all of thire magic?:)Any good websites or books?:)

www.religiousforums.com

I will attach both a pdf version and a plain text version of a 45 page pdf document called "Meditation Sickness" that @dybmh posted on that thread.

It's a good read, worthy of discussion, including your own experiences and about things you have read regarding it.

I'm hoping this will start a productive discussion. All religions and non-religions alike are welcome.

 

[sun rise]

The "Meditation sickness" article seems very reasonable to me. Anyone who starts meditation should stop if something negative starts happening just like drug side-effects can cause someone to stop the drug. And different forms of meditation are better for different people. One side fits all does not cut it as far as I can see.

 

[dybmh]

I'll need to read it again. But there are 4 factors which each on their own increase the likelyhood of trouble. These, I think, should be part of a screening process for new meditators. Not that anyone should automatically be excluded, but just that these indivduals may need some additional guidance or monitoring from their instructor.

1) previous trauma
2) drug-use
3) previous history of mental illness
4) a desire to learn these practices on their own without a community or instructor

 

[crossfire]

I have a few personal experiences with meditation side effects I can share once everyone who is interested has a chance to read the article.

 

[crossfire]

OK, I'll start with one side effect from meditation. Someone told me to meditate on "absolute space," which instead of the intended meaning of "infinite space," I took to mean "non-relativistic space." (Try wrapping your brain around that one!)

The first time I tried, I started getting intense heat generating in my body, which I kept going through, but then it became intense cold, accompanied by intense shivering, which wouldn't even go away with a hot shower.

A couple of weeks later, I tried it again, with the same result.

Then I tried switching between two different meditative techniques, which kept the cold shivering from occurring, but set up a different vibration between the two techniques that wasn't conducive to "non-relativistic space." Next time, I used 4 different perspective variations and was able to get some very compact information that took me years to figure out. So yeah, the technique of switching between meditative techniques as mentioned in the article does have its usefulness.

 

[dybmh]

OK, I'll start with one side effect from meditation. Someone told me to meditate on "absolute space," which instead of the intended meaning of "infinite space," I took to mean "non-relativistic space." (Try wrapping your brain around that one!)

The first time I tried, I started getting intense heat generating in my body, which I kept going through, but then it became intense cold, accompanied by intense shivering, which wouldn't even go away with a hot shower.

A couple of weeks later, I tried it again, with the same result.

Then I tried switching between two different meditative techniques, which kept the cold shivering from occurring, but set up a different vibration between the two techniques that wasn't conducive to "non-relativistic space." Next time, I used 4 different perspective variations and was able to get some very compact information that took me years to figure out. So yeah, the technique of switching between meditative techniques as mentioned in the article does have its usefulness.

That was it, that was all they told you? "absolute space", no other directions?

And pushing through it? Did someone tell you to do that? Or was that your own idea, just keep going?

No one was with you helping you?

 

[sun rise]

That was it, that was all they told you? "absolute space", no other directions?

And pushing through it? Did someone tell you to do that? Or was that your own idea, just keep going?

No one was with you helping you?

What you asked @dybmh.

I think I posted this on RF before and it was not meditation but it was guided imagery in a class situation. I volunteered and the instructor said to close my eyes, see the image of a house and explore it. The house is a symbol of the self. Everything was fine until I entered the basement. The way out closed; a hole opened in the wall and I *knew* the only way out was to go insane. Somehow I formed a protective bubble and floating to the surface. The instructor took time to find out if I was ok (I thought so), gave me his card and told me to call him if I found I was not ok. I wasn't ok, basically very very shook up for a couple of days. I did not call but the knowledge I could was what I needed.

Some meditations involve imagery and I know from experience exactly how dangerous imagery can be. I'm not surprised that "absolute space" caused those effects. What I had learned from a cursory study of Zen Meditation had become real in guided imagery rather than meditation on a form or thought

"Makyō are the phenomena–visions, hallucinations, fantasies, revelations, illusory sensations–which one practicing zazen is apt to experience at a particular stage in his sitting."

 

[crossfire]

That was it, that was all they told you? "absolute space", no other directions?

And pushing through it? Did someone tell you to do that? Or was that your own idea, just keep going?

No one was with you helping you?

Nope, no one was helping me.

#1 & #4 of the screening list you posted would apply to me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Someone told me to meditate on "absolute space," which instead of the intended meaning of "infinite space," I took to mean "non-relativistic space." (Try wrapping your brain around that one!)

No one should try that. It is woo. Meditation is to bring calmness to mind and just breathing regularly sitting in a calm environment is enough. One should not particularly think about anything. And meditation (Dhyana) need not be done without any purpose. Do it only if you have a focus, a question in mind. The calm mind will provide you the best answer. Meditation will not enable anyone to levitate. Nothing like intense heat or intense cold will happen.

 

[crossfire]

Another nasty side effect I attribute to meditation was a lovely case of shingles I got after a qliphoth meditation. I also had some depression and some allergy-like symptoms associated with other qliphoth workings. Needless to say, I was firmly convinced that the Book of Job was a metaphor of working the qliphoth for quite a while. (I still have my suspicions.)
Yes, I did have instruction for this.

 

[crossfire]

No one should try that. It is woo. Meditation is to bring calmness to mind and just breathing regularly sitting in a calm environment is enough. One should not particularly think about anything. And meditation (Dhyana) need not be done without any purpose. Do it only if you have a focus, a question in mind. The calm mind will provide you the best answer. Meditation will not enable anyone to levitate. Nothing like intense heat or intense cold will happen.

Hey, I spent 2 years doing insight meditation into the nature of PMS. It was very helpful.

 

[crossfire]

I've never done anything that I would call "hardcore" meditation. Instead, I try to be as passive as possible and not have an excessively long session. Even mantra use seems like too much for me. (Although I know mantra use does work, but I'm not a fan of how it works. It's just not my cup of tea.)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hey, I spent 2 years doing insight meditation into the nature of PMS. It was very helpful.

Nice that it helped you.
I consider "hardcore" meditation as no good, waste of time and invitation to mysticism. I engaged in Meditation to prepare ground to find answers to my questions, the way Gautama, the Buddha, did. Once you find the answers, meditation is not required, the mind is calm all the time.

 

[crossfire]

The six breaths (liuqi) as taught to me by my martial arts sen sei and mentioned in the article have also been helpful, especially hu (pronounced ha! much like how an animal pants) for excess heat and chui (pronounced shwayi) when cold.

 

[rocala]

1) previous trauma

This was the problem for me, not just that it was there but just how big and powerful it was. That was one hell of a shock.

I have been on several meditation retreats and courses ranging from weekends to two weeks. One particular place seems most suited to me and I felt real progress was being made. However, this is when I came face to face with trauma.
The first time concerned stuff from early childhood. I frequently had to skip a class and just sit in the garden with my thoughts. When the two weeks were over I went home and got drunk. I did very little meditation for the next two or three years.

That was ten years ago. I went back recently for an eight-day retreat. I had thought a lot about the past and believed, correctly I think, that I have worked through that period. On Tuesday evening stuff from much more recent experiences kept coming up but I could handle it. The first session Wednesday morning, the meditation was going great then suddenly bang, it was back, but this time it was pure rage, anger at the various injustices.
When I was doing my daily allotted catering chores I could barely function and felt somehow isolated from everyone else and somehow very visible.

Luckily (for me) I was not the only one. In our discussion group, another man told of going through something very similar. I could see that he was on the verge of tears. So I said my piece and felt so much better. A woman there from my catering team came and hugged me. She assured me that there had been nothing to indicate what I was feeling.

Trauma is very real and can shock with the power that it has. Good human contact is a wonderful medicine. Please don't go through these experiences alone.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't invite these experiences by trying to meditate for hours.

 

[crossfire]

Another point in the article was one term for the negative side effects of meditation, zouhuo rumo has become a popular idiom for madness or obsession. I can say there was a time when I was obsessed with koan practice. (The term I use is being a koan junkie.) It did affect my ability to communicate clearly, as I would often speak in riddles, or with ambiguous puns. I still consider myself to be a recovering koan junkie.

The one area where I feel there is a real danger of becoming obsessed or a junkie is becoming attached to the bliss of the third rupa jhana and not progressing onto the equanimity/even-mindedness of the fourth rupa jhana. Equanimity or even-mindedness (sanity) should always be the end goal of any particular or specific practice one engages in.

 

[crossfire]

No one should try that. It is woo. Meditation is to bring calmness to mind and just breathing regularly sitting in a calm environment is enough. One should not particularly think about anything. And meditation (Dhyana) need not be done without any purpose. Do it only if you have a focus, a question in mind. The calm mind will provide you the best answer. Meditation will not enable anyone to levitate. Nothing like intense heat or intense cold will happen.

Meditation on infinite space is one of the arupa jhanas listed in the suttas. It can trigger the rupa jhana cycle so the practitioner can recognize the rupa jhanas, and know Right Samadhi (or Right Concentration) of the Eightfold Path for what it is.

 

[dybmh]

Nope, no one was helping me.

#1 & #4 of the screening list you posted would apply to me.

There's a reason I put #1 as #1. It's so-so important in my opinion. Then that leads to #4, which maybe is encouraged, in the indivual's mind, as a consequence of #1, but at the same time, #1 would, imo, necessitate some additional monitoring.

 

[sun rise]

Nothing like intense heat or intense cold will happen.

That's your experience but not everyone's. Meditation changes temperatures is one example and it makes sense given how biofeedback works. Voluntary control of vascular tone by using skin-temperature biofeedback-relaxation in patients with advanced heart failure - PubMed

But to me there's nothing spiritual about meditation/biofeedback temperature control. If you are a Tibetan monk, it makes sense to keep warm but that's about it.