Meditation Sickness

[crossfire]

@dybmh
on the other thread, you mentioned "צַדִּיק שֶׁאֵינוֹ גָמוּר"
After some investigation, I came across chapter 10 of The Tanya and did some reading.

Are you saying that the self immolations by some Buddhist monks after meditating on the impurities of the body (which is mentioned in the OP article) was a wrong application of striving to become a "complete tzaddik?" If so, I agree.

Buddha's words in Dhammapada 1:5

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.​

This doesn't quite mesh with The Tanya in that the "tzaddik" utterly hates or loathes the kelipah and sitra achara, which is different from loathsomeness of the body. (The coarse material (physical) and the fine material (astral) are both part of the kama-loka realm in Buddhism, and hatred can be manifest in either one. The rupa-loka is where hatred and ill-will has been (temporarily) suppressed.)

So is this the point you were trying to make in the other thread? The meditation sickness resulting in self-immolation and other forms of suicide was from misdirecting the loathsomeness to the body instead of to the kelipah and sitra achara?

 

[dybmh]

Are you saying that the self immolations by some Buddhist monks after meditating on the impurities of the body (which is mentioned in the OP article) was a wrong application of striving to become a "complete tzaddik?" If so, I agree.

No, that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that people don't realize it's OK for Jewish people to learn about foreign practices, for the purpose of NOT doing them. The assumption is, a Jewish person cannot learn certain things. But that is not entirely true.

So is this the point you were trying to make in the other thread?

No. Only that I had and have opportunity to learn about "the other side" so to speak. And I still do. In order to learn what NOT to do.

 

[crossfire]

No, that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that people don't realize it's OK for Jewish people to learn about foreign practices, for the purpose of NOT doing them. The assumption is, a Jewish person cannot learn certain things. But that is not entirely true.



No. Only that I had and have opportunity to learn about "the other side" so to speak. And I still do. In order to learn what NOT to do.

Alright, so do you see the connection I'm seeing? Instead of transforming anger (the fleshly manifestation) into Great Mirror Wisdom (as well as transforming the other obscuring emotions associated with the flesh in your worldview) these monks only saw the whole mess of misalignment and wanted to destroy it instead of compassionately untangling it and sorting it out as described in The Tanya??

<edit to add> Yeah I'm looking at The Tanya through a Buddhist lens and not a Jewish lens, so we might be talking passed each other.

 

[dybmh]

Alright, so do you see the connection I'm seeing? Instead of transforming anger (the fleshly manifestation) into Great Mirror Wisdom (as well as transforming the other obscuring emotions associated with the flesh in your worldview) these monks only saw the whole mess of misalignment and wanted to destroy it instead of compassionately untangling it and sorting it out as described in The Tanya??

<edit to add> Yeah I'm looking at The Tanya through a Buddhist lens and not a Jewish lens, so we might be talking passed each other.

I don't have the Tanya memorized, but there are various techniques. Tanya, BTW is a specific version of applied Kabbalah. The Tzaddik who knows evil, predates the Tanya as a concept.

That said, I love Tanya, so If you'd like I can do some review and let you know. The more you can provide for me to read from the Buddhist perspective the better.

 

[crossfire]

I don't have the Tanya memorized, but there are various techniques. Tanya, BTW is a specific version of applied Kabbalah. The Tzaddik who knows evil, predates the Tanya as a concept.

That said, I love Tanya, so If you'd like I can do some review and let you know. The more you can provide for me to read from the Buddhist perspective the better.

That might be the beginnings of another thread.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Meditation on infinite space is one of the arupa jhanas listed in the suttas. It can trigger the rupa jhana cycle so the practitioner can recognize the rupa jhanas, and know Right Samadhi (or Right Concentration) of the Eightfold Path for what it is.

I differ from the Buddhist or even the Hindu views on "Meditation on infinite space" or things like that. This is occultism, mysticism. I do not believe Buddha, being a very practical person, would have appreciated it. Meditate, if you want to calm your mind, meditate if there is a question which you want to contemplate on.
As for temperature control, Tibetans are better than us because of living and fending for themselves in that environment and also that capabilities of human body are not always realized or challenged living in comfortable environments in cities. Other than digestive organs, we hardly use our bodies.

 

[sun rise]

No. Only that I had and have opportunity to learn about "the other side" so to speak. And I still do. In order to learn what NOT to do.

The following is deliberately extreme since your statement opened the door:

So if a Muslim says As-salamu alaykum to you, you won't respond naleichem shalom, And if a member of another religion says "God is one" you will disagree in spite of the sh'ma?

And when you read "One should not behave towards others in a way that is disagreeable to oneself. This is the essence of morality. All other activities are due to selfish nature." – Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 113.8 - you won't follow it in spite of What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it. – Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a

And you obviouslyi disagree with Rabbi Rami Shapiro:
“To me, religions are like languages: no language is true or false; all languages are of human origin; each language reflects and shapes the civilization that speaks it; there are things you can say in one language that you cannot say as well in another; and the more languages you learn, the more nuanced your understanding of life. Judaism is my mother tongue yet in matters of the spirit I strive to be multilingual. In the end, however, the deepest language of the soul is silence.”

 

[dybmh]

The following is deliberately extreme since your statement opened the door:

Did you understand my statement?

I had and have opportunity to learn about "the other side" so to speak. And I still do. In order to learn what NOT to do.

The other side...

סטרא אחרא – ויקיפדיה

he.m.wikipedia.org

So if a Muslim says As-salamu alaykum to you, you won't respond naleichem shalom, And if a member of another religion says "God is one" you will disagree in spite of the sh'ma?

I greet others as they greet me. Even with Christians if they speak with me, I use general language that is mutually acceptable. If they ask if I am saved, I might answer, "The Lord always takes good care." They seem to like that. Do we all worship the same God? That depends n the individual. I don't rule it out unless I have reason to do so.

And when you read "One should not behave towards others in a way that is disagreeable to oneself. This is the essence of morality. All other activities are due to selfish nature." – Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 113.8 - you won't follow it in spite of What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it. – Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a

It's good to read the whole story, but I generallly agree with this. There are always exceptions.

“To me, religions are like languages: no language is true or false; all languages are of human origin; each language reflects and shapes the civilization that speaks it; there are things you can say in one language that you cannot say as well in another; and the more languages you learn, the more nuanced your understanding of life. Judaism is my mother tongue yet in matters of the spirit I strive to be multilingual. In the end, however, the deepest language of the soul is silence.”

I would not agree that no religion is true or false, nor that all religion is human in origin. I'm not sure why I should agree with it. I think each person has their own talents and flaws, affinities and aversions. I think that the best thing for me is to be Jewish. But that doesn't mean anything for any other person. I think you misunderstood what I wrote.

There is evil. Evil exists. I'm confident of that. It is the "other side".

 

[SalixIncendium]

Once you find the answers, meditation is not required, the mind is calm all the time.

But it's important to note that there are those that "find the answers" that have yet to become stable in that knowledge. For such a person, meditation is still quite useful.

And while meditation may not be required for those that have become stable in that knowledge, it's by no means discouraged or prohibited. Besides, it could be said that one who has become stable in that knowledge is always "meditating."

 

[Aupmanyav]

And when you read "One should not behave towards others in a way that is disagreeable to oneself. This is the essence of morality. All other activities are due to selfish nature." – Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 113.8

Mahabharata never said that you do not react with equal force when attacked. Sometimes war is a duty ('dharma').

Besides, it could be said that one who has become stable in that knowledge is always "meditating."

That is correct. It takes me a second to get to that state. It is a well-traveled road for me.

 

[sun rise]

Mahabharata never said that you do not react with equal force when attacked. Sometimes war is a duty ('dharma').

Reading the Krishna indicated to Arjuna that it was his duty (dharma) to go to war against members of his own families influenced my thinking. Sometimes war is necessary to oppose forces of darkness.