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meditation?
- Thread starter syo
- Start date
Your direct access to the spirit world, unfiltered. (with mastery, of course)
Organized religions typically don't encourage meditation, though some do - you will find much information that refutes any dogma you've absorbed. (We've all absorbed some.)
As far as it's nature, no it's more like listening. It's not thinking really hard about something, although there is a type of meditation that works that way (mantra) through the idea that you overwhelm your monkey brain and then you can get to silence. The quicker you stop relying on those crutches the better, but say you sit for an hour trying to clear your mind... Don't be surprised if you fail completely or only get like 10 seconds of peace from the chatter... It gradually increases over time, you just have to keep going... Eventually you can do it just by thinking about it, it's like riding a bike...
Anyway, even if you fail miserably at clearing your mind for a minute your stress levels will be greatly reduced in a way that is measurable medically... so, I guess it's good for everyone to meditate even if they aren't seeking a spiritual path just for physical health.
Tmac
Active Member
If I may, the idea is not to pay attention to the thoughts, if you try to clear the mind, you are just stirring the thoughts around, the idea is to de-energize them. (have to laugh when you guys refer to your brain as a monkey brain)
I just sort of pull into the center and just watch them, but I tell myself to "still them" before I do that. Eventually, I just stop paying attention to them... sort of go into my alone cone, lol...
Anyway, there are several ways to do the same thing. I just was trying to make it clear that concentrating and meditation are exactly the opposite as far as actions. Meditation is like listening to your own internal music... But, like if you're attending a symphony you'd want the audience to be quiet so you could hear the piece... It's really the same... If you have that mindset it tends to happen a lot easier...
syo
Well-Known Member
how do you define the spirit world? what's a spirit?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Aldrnari
Active Member
As @crossfire has already said, there are many types of meditation with many different goals. The only thing I might add is that it's also a way to hone the mind- to direct it and focus it.
I may be wrong, but your posts seem to indicate to me that you are a Christian. Worship songs in church strike me as a sort of meditation, as the goal seems to be in connecting with god. Many Christians will also meditate on passages of the bible as they reflect and think deeply about their meaning.
You should read the wiki on the subject, however. It explains in more depth the differences in every religion's (or non religious) styles of meditation.
I may be wrong, but your posts seem to indicate to me that you are a Christian. Worship songs in church strike me as a sort of meditation, as the goal seems to be in connecting with god. Many Christians will also meditate on passages of the bible as they reflect and think deeply about their meaning.
You should read the wiki on the subject, however. It explains in more depth the differences in every religion's (or non religious) styles of meditation.
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The word 'meditation' is also used with slightly different meanings. Chanting can be a form of meditation. Focusing on the breath or a Divine image can be meditation. Trying to disassociate from one's lower nature "not this, not this" can be meditation.
Knowing which is the best for oneself can be tricky. A teacher/guru who has trod the path can be helpful if one is fortunate to find a real teacher which itself can be uncertain.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Namaste,
I will give my Hindu perspective on my limited understanding of Dharan, Dhyana, Samadhi = These three i think make up what a Hindu may call Meditation in general, and there are a multitude of ways to "Meditate",. i think its the more popular Yoga Sutra Version of Patanjali that most people (and me) are aware of.
Dharana, which is to choose a specific idea or object and to take only that particular object/idea and exclude all other external factors which may influence it, simply it is to first pay full attention to something, before repetitive practice (Dhyana).
Dhyan is to Immerse once mind completely via repeat practice of concentration. This is done by repeat and full concentration on the chosen object/idea only and to control our mind so it does not weaver from the chosen object, that is why it is a practice.
Dharana to Dyana leads to Samadhi,
Vivekananda describes the process of Savikalpa Samadhi Meditation as:
Savikalpa In this Samadhi, the practitioner
concentrates his mind on Brahman without completely
losing such distinctions as the knower, knowledge
and the known. This is the initial step in the practice
of concentration.
Then the process of the meditation is this : Whenever
any thought appears in the mind, take it to be
an object and be indifferent to it. But think of the
Atman as your real nature, eternal and permanent.
The object which is an idea appears and disappears.
This sort of concentration is always associated with
an object of thought.
On nirvikalpa he states:
Nirvikalpa In this Samadhi the practitioner
makes himself free from all thought of distinctions,
as the knower, knowledge and the known.
This Samadhi is characterized by the absence of
the knowledge of the subject-object relationship.
Apparently it is like that state of calmness and
tranquillity which pervades a stone, because in the
Nirvikalpa Samadhi the mind stops its functioning.
But it should not be mistaken for stupor or deep sleep
in which state alone one experiences absence of
duality. The difference between deep sleep and
Nirvikalpa Samadhi is that in the former state there
is no knowledge of Self, but in the latter there
exists no feeling of not knowing the Self, because in
the Nirvikalpa Samadhi one becomes identified with
the ever-Conscious Atman.
To me the point is to become one with Brahman, by realizing the Atman using Dhyana and Dharana as a tool. The tool first quietens the mind by reducing the fluctuations or the waves of our thoughts and to remove the modifications of our mind, in order to have a clear and a un-filtered experience of reality (Brahman).
The many type of Meditations makes the foundation of Hinduism and can be traced to as early as the Upanishads and even Vedas textually but the practice is said to be even older.
Why do Hindus practice and preach Meditation, i think it is because the idea that there is a more accurate way of perceiving existence, was experienced by the Rishis and Yogis and they devised methods and techniques for others to also have a similar experience, over the centuries other Yogi's have added there own experience and ideas to the vast "tool set", that is Yoga.
Anyways, this is my own opinion on this and may not reflect that of other Hindus.
Dhanyavad
Indeed, there are different forms of meditation. Several years ago, I did a two year study involving meditation to gain insight into the nature of PMS. (Couldn't find a teacher for that, so I just had to figure it out for myself.) It was difficult meditating while in the throes of PMS, but I eventually learned to discern the difference between a hormonal effect from the body and a frustration effect from the mind triggered by the hormones.
I also designed my own mantra to overcome my aversion to mantras. (I used the Proto-Indo-European root "Blegch" which means "to burn, to shine.") It worked in getting over my aversion to mantras, but was kinda painful, even with the humor I built into it. (Getting over aversion can be painful.)
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What is meditation?
Some time ago, I asked this question and embarked on a research project (I'm a nerd, it's a thing I do). There's no single answer to the question, but when I looked for a common thread running through the various takes on meditation I studied, I came up with this:
By "state of consciousness" I mean one's awareness and focus. Put another way, meditation is the practice of focusing attention. In all cases I looked at, meditation involved shifting the focus of one's attention away from the usual routines and to a more out-of-the-ordinary state.
Is it concentration?
At its core, pretty much. That said, various traditions of meditation (usually) add in other ritualistic components that make meditation more than just concentration. I guess you could say meditation is a type of concentration with added embellishments?
What is meditation's purpose? Why some religions embrace meditation?
This is where I started seeing quite a bit of diversity in the various forms I researched. I'm not in the mood to attempt writing an exhaustive list of the purposes I found, so instead I'm going to say that for me, meditation is a means to an ends rather than a purpose in of itself. It's one of three core practices that are used to support other rituals and spellwork. Any time a state of focused attention would be useful for a working, meditation is the tool to get you there.
Some time ago, I asked this question and embarked on a research project (I'm a nerd, it's a thing I do). There's no single answer to the question, but when I looked for a common thread running through the various takes on meditation I studied, I came up with this:
Meditation is the practice of altering your state of consciousness intentionally and purposefully
By "state of consciousness" I mean one's awareness and focus. Put another way, meditation is the practice of focusing attention. In all cases I looked at, meditation involved shifting the focus of one's attention away from the usual routines and to a more out-of-the-ordinary state.
Is it concentration?
At its core, pretty much. That said, various traditions of meditation (usually) add in other ritualistic components that make meditation more than just concentration. I guess you could say meditation is a type of concentration with added embellishments?
What is meditation's purpose? Why some religions embrace meditation?
This is where I started seeing quite a bit of diversity in the various forms I researched. I'm not in the mood to attempt writing an exhaustive list of the purposes I found, so instead I'm going to say that for me, meditation is a means to an ends rather than a purpose in of itself. It's one of three core practices that are used to support other rituals and spellwork. Any time a state of focused attention would be useful for a working, meditation is the tool to get you there.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
Meditation from the eastern perspective is living in the present moment. It is also termed as Self or Awareness, which is the original state of consciousness prior to mental modification by thoughts, desires and emotions.
Nisargadatta Maharaj states in this regard...
Since it is awareness that makes consciousness possible, there is awareness in every state of consciousness. Therefore the very consciousness of being conscious is already a movement in awareness. Interest in your stream of consciousness takes you to awareness. It is not a new state. It is at once recognised as the original, basic existence, which is life itself, and also love and joy. - Nisargadatta Maharaj
It is mental equanimity , wherein the mind is not blindly influenced by external or internal stimuli leading to incessant generation of thoughts and emotions, that leads to undistracted present moment awareness.
It is for this reason that Krishna stated thus, 'Equanimity of mind is yoga.'
Meditation ensures an equanimous mind and unobscured Awareness at all times, leading to clarity of mind, and avoiding emotional extremes due to blind identification with thoughts, emotions and desires.
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syo
Well-Known Member
yes, you are right.
I don't bother to define things for people, I figure if they are interested they'll go do the work to find out, if not... I'm not wasting my time arguing against their personal biases. They can do exactly the things I do and make up their own mind, or decide not to because all they want to do is blather incessantly and do nothing - wasting their time and mine.
People who favor intellectualism tend to model everything and need definitions, but similarly their models are more important than their experience. I reside in that other camp - experience trumps opinion, dogma, and whatever sounds good to me - and just because something seems illogical doesn't mean it isn't still right, because what is under your nose, so to speak, isn't debatable.
These conversations tend to degrade into an argument of beliefs, but in this case the beliefs are irrelevant - certain processes lead to certain results, and the result speak for themselves. At that juncture it is hard to tell whether it is worth wasting the time to explain the situation, or just concede that that the inquiry of "what is spirit" can only be quantified by a personal experience involving such, the asker knows that and is trolling, maybe...
syo
Well-Known Member
i asked your point of view, because you mention spirit. how will i know your point of view?
The term spirit immediately prompts an experience, one's you have or don't. I can't make you have those experiences, so in essence it would be like describing to the color red to a blind man. I use the term to refer to what seems to be an independent functioning consciousness which may or may not be attached to a body, after that, I have no idea what they are other than you can sometimes see them or not.
I won't entertain the debate of whether they exist or they're all in your head, because everything is "in your head".