Meloni's assault on Italy abortion clinic

[Jayhawker Soule]

See Politico: Italy moves to allow anti-abortion activists inside clinics

ROME — Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has been accused of taking the country back to “medieval times” by tabling legislation that gives anti-abortion activists a place in abortion clinics.​

​

Before coming to power, Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, promised not to touch the right to abortion, established under certain conditions in 1978.​

​

But on Tuesday her party introduced an amendment permitting healthcare authorities “to involve non-profits with experience providing maternity support in family planning clinics.”​

​

The measure is part of legislation that the lower house of parliament approved on Thursday afternoon by a margin of 140 votes to 91, paving the way for a final vote in the upper chamber.​

​

It promises to add to criticism that Meloni is effectuating a hard-right agenda at home while projecting herself as a moderate on the international scene.​

Forcing women to run the gauntlet of anti-abortion protesters is terrible abuse. This is worse.

 

[Altfish]

It was a vote loser in the US, I'm sure it'll backfire for Meloni too.

 

[Estro Felino]

Honestly I think that prevention and contraception are better than abortion.

For example, I applaud this measure: free hormonal pill for all the women who are younger than 26:

La pillola sarà gratis ma solo per le donne con meno di 26 anni

Il cda dell’Aifa cancella l’orientamento di fornirla senza limiti di età. E potrà essere ritirata solo in ospedale o in consultorio

www.repubblica.it

which basically means that since all unmarried women are younger than 26-28 years old, it's just for the celibate one...

 

[Altfish]

Honestly I think that prevention and contraception are better than abortion.

For example, I applaud this measure: free hormonal pill for all the women who are younger than 26:

La pillola sarà gratis ma solo per le donne con meno di 26 anni

Il cda dell’Aifa cancella l’orientamento di fornirla senza limiti di età. E potrà essere ritirata solo in ospedale o in consultorio

www.repubblica.it

which basically means that since all unmarried women are younger than 26-28 years old, it's just for the celibate one...

Come on Estro, you are not that daft; of course prevention and contraception are better than abortion, BUT (as I have said many times before) it must not be taken off the table. Accidents happen, contraceptives fail, not every pregnancy is planned.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Honestly I think that prevention and contraception are better than abortion.

As do I, but, honestly, that is irrelevant when dealing with such things as rape and serious medical complications.

 

[Revoltingest]

Honestly I think that prevention and contraception are better than abortion.

Not everyone has the same choices to make in life.
Your preferences aren't available to all women at all times.

Analogy time....
I think prevention of disease is better than surgery.
But I chose the latter recently because Dupuytren's
Contracture was imposed upon me by a mix of injury,
genetics, age, & a life filled with manual labor.

 

[Revoltingest]

...since all unmarried women are younger than 26-28 years old, it's just for the celibate one...

Bogus claim.

1. A profile of single Americans

Many single adults in the U.S. are content being on their own. Of the half who are not looking for a relationship or dates at the moment, having more

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Estro Felino]

As do I, but, honestly, that is irrelevant when dealing with such things as rape and serious medical complications.

I don't think that pro-life professionals will ever interfere with such very, very serious cases, where women have the sacred right to have an abortion. It's the law that gave them this right.

The presence of these pro-life professionals is exclusively meant to remind women that they can give their babies for adoption: all those cases where the pregnancy is 100% safe.

 

[Debater Slayer]

See Politico: Italy moves to allow anti-abortion activists inside clinics

ROME — Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has been accused of taking the country back to “medieval times” by tabling legislation that gives anti-abortion activists a place in abortion clinics.​

​

Before coming to power, Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, promised not to touch the right to abortion, established under certain conditions in 1978.​

​

But on Tuesday her party introduced an amendment permitting healthcare authorities “to involve non-profits with experience providing maternity support in family planning clinics.”​

​

The measure is part of legislation that the lower house of parliament approved on Thursday afternoon by a margin of 140 votes to 91, paving the way for a final vote in the upper chamber.​

​

It promises to add to criticism that Meloni is effectuating a hard-right agenda at home while projecting herself as a moderate on the international scene.​

Forcing women to run the gauntlet of anti-abortion protesters is terrible abuse. This is worse.

A fascist (in the literal sense) acting like a fascist by helping to chip away at rights and freedoms she disagrees with. I wish I could say I was surprised.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The presence of these pro-life professionals is exclusively meant to remind women that they can give their babies for adoption: all those cases where the pregnancy is 100% safe.

Given that I know far too little about Italy, can you tell me how one gets accredited as a "pro-life professional"?

 

[Estro Felino]

Given that I know far too little about Italy, can you tell me how one gets accredited as a "pro-life professional"?

I guess they are from the ProLife Association. A Catholic association.
That said...I think the Government should promote free contraception.
The sex education perfectly works, because the abortion is something widespread among the X generarion.

We millennials and Z are wiser.

 

[Lyndon]

I guess they are from the ProLife Association. A Catholic association.
That said...I think the Government should promote free contraception.
The sec education perfectly works, because the abortion is something widespread among the X generarion.

We millennials and Z are wiser.

Yes you seem to have established a pretty foolproof form of contraception for yourself!!

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes you seem to have established a pretty foolproof form of contraception for yourself!!

All right...it's not a problem of generation gap.
But let's not forget that millennials were raised with the pill mantra. Some of them have been taking the pill since they were sixteen.

The problem is when Conservatives speak of pro-life agendas, without promoting free or affordable contraceptives inclusing condoms and IUDs.

Sex is something that exists to be enjoyed. And the State should take care of the citizens' welfare, that includes a satisfying sex life.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Given that I know far too little about Italy, can you tell me how one gets accredited as a "pro-life professional"?

I guess they are from the ProLife Association. A Catholic association.
That said...I think the Government should promote free contraception.
The sex education perfectly works, because the abortion is something widespread among the X generarion.

OK, but at issue in this thread is neither the availability of free contraception nor the efficacy of sex education but whether or not these so-called "pro-life professional" should be allowed inside Italy's abortion clinics.

 

[Estro Felino]

OK, but at issue in this thread is neither the availability of free contraception nor the efficacy of sex education but whether or not these so-called "pro-life professional" should be allowed inside Italy's abortion clinics.

They are not abortion clinics.
We have universal healthcare, so any facility is controlled by the State, whether it's public or private.

We are speaking of consultori, which are state-owned facilities where women ask for counselling and help. A sort of state-owned planned parenthood facilities.
The PM has always been close to this non-profit organization, which is called Pro-Life and Family

Notizie e Iniziative su Vita e Famiglia - Pro Vita e Famiglia onlus

Il portale Pro Vita e Famiglia, promuove i valori della Vita, dal concepimento fino alla morte naturale e della Famiglia fondata sul matrimonio tra uomo e donna. Scopri tutti gli articoli.

www.provitaefamiglia.it

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They are not abortion clinics.
We have universal healthcare, so any facility is controlled by the State, whether it's public or private.

We are speaking of consultories, which are state-owned facilities where women ask for counselling and help. A sort of state-owned planned parenthood facilities.

Thanks. That was helpful. Would you agree that this Reuters article is more clear?

So, I'm left to wonder, if these "[f]amily advice clinics" are such natural venues for the Catholic "ProLife Association,"

1. why was this Catholic association's intervention previously disallowed,
2. why did it require action by Italy's Chamber of Deputies and Senate to enable entry, and
3. do you support this development?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Come on Estro, you are not that daft; of course prevention and contraception are better than abortion, BUT (as I have said many times before) it must not be taken off the table. Accidents happen, contraceptives fail, not every pregnancy is planned.

Well said.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't think that pro-life professionals will ever interfere with such very, very serious cases, where women have the sacred right to have an abortion. It's the law that gave them this right.

If the "right" was given by the law, it is not sacred -- by definition.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From a euronews article that appeared just prior to the vote:

Controversial law allowing anti-abortion activists into clinics reaches Italy's Senate​

It begins ...

The highly contentious legislation, introduced by the governing Brothers of Italy, has been condemned by critics as a blow to women's rights.​

​

Protests have erupted in Rome after the lower house of Italy's parliament passed new legislation allowing anti-abortion activists to enter abortion clinics.​

It then notes ...

Meloni’s party maintains it does not want to revoke Italy's abortion law, but instead wants to allow "collaboration by suitable groups and voluntary associations so as to help overcome the reasons why a woman might decide to terminate a pregnancy”. [emphasis added - JS]​

And summarizes ...

The amendment follows a general trend where access to abortion has become increasingly convoluted in Italy.​

​

Doctor's in the historically Catholic country can refuse to perform the procedure based on moral or religious grounds. According to numbers released by the Italian Health Ministry in 2021, over 60% of gynaecologists in the country refuse to carry out an abortion.​

​

Several regions in the country, such as the Brothers of Italy-led regions of Marche and Umbri have also restricted access to the abortion pill.​

​

Italy's policy stands in contrast to other countries in Europe such as France, where lawmakers voted in March to make abortion a constitutional right.​

I would still like more clarity concerning the necessary credentials of what @Estro Felino terms "pro-life professionals" and what the bill apparently defines as "suitable groups and voluntary associations ... to help overcome the reasons why a woman might decide to terminate a pregnancy”.

 

[Estro Felino]

Thanks. That was helpful. Would you agree that this Reuters article is more clear?

No. It's pretty confusing.
This article Aborto, via libera del Senato ai volontari "pro-vita" nei consultori: la norma è legge clarifies that regional governments will have the possibility (so it's not compulsory) to hire volunteers, that is pro-life associations professionals, that will try to assist the pregnant woman in the choice. They will not try to dissuade women from having an abortion.
The choice belongs to the woman.
The National Health Service is entrusted to the single regions, so the regions will decide. Probably not so many will take advantage of the possibility.

So, I'm left to wonder, if these "[f]amily advice clinics" are such natural venues for the Catholic "ProLife Association,"

1. why was this Catholic association's intervention previously disallowed,
2. why did it require action by Italy's Chamber of Deputies and Senate to enable entry, and
3. do you support this development?

As I said, we call them counselling centers. Family advice clinics is not what we call them, but, never mind.
1. Because, if you ask me, back when the abortion law was passed, in 1978, there was not the ongoing "tragedy" of the birth rate collapse, so they are taking advantage of any venue possible to try to change the birth rate trend.
2. Because the law on abortion clearly says that abortion is not a contraceptive method, so it cannot be used irresponsbly and numerous times. A woman is supposed to use contraception and to do anything to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. If she gets pregnant despite the contraception, then she can have an abortion. Or in very peculiar cases like risky pregnancy or rape. These professionals will ascertain that.
3. I don't disapprove of it. I mean...most Italian women use contraception. I guess it's foreign women (migrants) that rely on abortion the most.