Men and Women

[idea]

It is true, that pregnancy historically has created certain roles. Within the animal kingdom often (not always), the male is given lesser role in bearing and raising the young. Within the human species, work has changed from hunter/gatherer to being more dependent on brains over brawn - with the more physically demanding jobs now being that of nurturing/cooking/cleaning (more physically demanding than sitting in front of a computer). 8 billion - overpopulation has changed the instinct to procreate. It's a new age, with new roles, new natural instincts.

 

[Kfox]

What exactly makes a man a "man"?

What exactly makes a woman a "woman"?


Edited:

Who gets to make these decisions for themselves? Others?

The Sex Chromosomes you are born with decide. If you have a "y" Chromosome, you are a man, if you have only "x" you are woman

 

[crossfire]

You are unclear on the idea of biological sex? really?

I majored in molecular biology at uni. (admittedly that was a long time ago )

But this seems like a solid, workable definition:

Sex is the trait that determines whether a sexually reproducing organism produces male or female gametes. During sexual reproduction, a male and a female gamete fuse to form a zygote, which develops into an offspring that inherits traits from each parent​

What if the individual does not produce gametes?

 

[crossfire]

The Sex Chromosomes you are born with decide. If you have a "y" Chromosome, you are a man, if you have only "x" you are woman

What about individuals who have xy chromosomes but develop into anatomical females from a lack of the hormone to induce secondary male characteristics (born with female anatomy but has xy chromosomes?)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If you care, go find it.

But I don't think you actually care

You made the claim, you provide the evidence.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In addition to medical reasons, it matters when safeguarding women and girls, it matters in sports competitions, it matters in affirmative action...

Yeah, please give evidence and not feelings for how it matters.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Biological sex, overwhelmingly binary, often matters - a lot.

Every individual can feel free to have or express any personality they like, but that can never change their sex.

Look up Swyer syndrome.
Now that is a rare variation, but it says notthing about the value of the human having it.
The problem with these debates is that you are one of those who attach value to normal. The problem is that is without evidence, objective reason or logic.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yeah, please give evidence and not feelings for how it matters.

I think to be fair, people have a habit of saying it doesn't matter in one context, then claiming it absolutely does matter in other contexts.
Are you suggesting it never matters? That you never see a need, in any context, to differentiate or otherwise have different treatments for people by gender or biological sex?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think to be fair, people have a habit of saying it doesn't matter in one context, then claiming it absolutely does matter in other contexts.
Are you suggesting it never matters? That you never see a need, in any context, to differentiate or otherwise have different treatments for people by gender?

No, but there is no objective or strong rational standard for what matters.
If you start reading some of the exchanges in some of these debates you will notice that they do what is considered a part of the is ought problem.
State a fact and then make an in effect normative claim and treat it as true for lack of better word.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No, but there is no objective or strong rational standard for what matters.
If you start reading some of the exchanges in some of these debates you will notice that they do what is considered a part of the is ought problem.
State a fact and then make an in effect normative claim and treat it as true for lack of better word.

Perhaps, but I think in terms of our own personal worldviews, it behooves us to try and be consistent and coherent.
Whatever side is 'right' and whatever is the 'truth', if I state that gender and/or sex doesn't matter, I would need to be careful in how I think and address a whole plethora of other issues where it's commonly accepted that it does matter.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Perhaps, but I think in terms of our own personal worldviews, it behooves us to try and be consistent and coherent.
Whatever side is 'right' and whatever is the 'truth', if I state that gender and/or sex doesn't matter, I would need to be careful in how I think and address a whole plethora of other issues where it's commonly accepted that it does matter.

It is that it matters differntly to different humans and there is no universal we for it.

The problem is that there is no one kind of good or bad and if you take for granted that your version is universal, you can end up harming other humans.

 

[Colt]

What exactly makes a man a "man"?

What exactly makes a woman a "woman"?


Edited:

Who gets to make these decisions for themselves? Others?

In the truest sense Male and Female are based on reproductive capacity. On our fallen and rebellious world, the latest fad is focused on tearing down and redefining these norms.

At the end of the day nonconformist are so much alike!

IMOP

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In the truest sense Male and Female are based on reproductive capacity. On our fallen and rebellious world, the latest fad is focused on tearing down and redefining these norms.

In the truest sense I have never come across really true. It is a subjective norm that you hold. I hold another.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It is that it matters differntly to different humans and there is no universal we for it.

The problem is that there is no one kind of good or bad and if you take for granted that your version is universal, you can end up harming other humans.

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that our own views on gender and sex should be consistent and coherent, whatever they are. I shouldn't be in one thread decrying gender and sex as meaningless, and in another promoting affirmative action for women, or decrying toxic masculinity, without dealing with the cognitive dissonance that rests in these views.

Whether someone's views agree with me is way less interesting to me than whether their views in one thread agree with their views in another thread.

 

[Colt]

In the truest sense I have never come across really true. It is a subjective norm that you hold. I hold another.

Somethings true, you may not like it but somethings true!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that our own views on gender and sex should be consistent and coherent, whatever they are. I shouldn't be in one thread decrying gender and sex as meaningless, and in another promoting affirmative action for women, or decrying toxic masculinity, without dealing with the cognitive dissonance that rests in these views.

Whether someone's views agree with me is way less interesting to me than whether their views in one thread agree with their views in another thread.

Yeah, that matters to you.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yeah, that matters to you.

Sorry mate, not sure what you mean?

 

[libre]

A central thesis of second wave feminism was Beauvoir's 'One is not born, but becomes a woman'.
I can't summarize the second sex in a single post, but that womanhood does not rise in society from biological reality but from their societal situation.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Somethings true, you may not like it but somethings true!

Yeah, that is your belief system. I have a different version of that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sorry mate, not sure what you mean?

Consistentcy and coherence matter to you.

What matters to me, is that I try not to project my version of good and bad onto other humans, but check what is at play.