Menstruation question

[Fireside_Hindu]

I seriously doubt that science can yet detect such subtle energies.

This was my thinking. If these energies exist, we don't have the tools to detect them. But whether one senses something about someone based on an unseen force or from their body language/facial expression, for the moment doesn't seem to matter .They both achieve the same thing - communication, albeit on a more subtle level.

:camp:

 

[Vinayaka]

Are there any explanations out there?

Of course there are explanations. Mystical ones. Some choose to believe. Others don't. In this case, blood is considered a 'mundane' substance, like dirt, sweat, and other bodily fluids.

Things like rosewater, incense, coconut juice, food prepared by a priest, etc., are considered sacred substances. Mundane attracts mundane. Sacred attracts sacred.

In energies, or beings, there are devas (relating to the sacred) and asuras (relating to the mundane). So these substances attract asuras. An asura might latch onto a bleeding person, and come into the temple to cause a disturbance in the vibration there. The sacred stuff attracts devas. Waving lamps, vibhuthi, and more.

So it's like trying to get like-minded individuals from the causal plane, the astral plane, and this physical plane all together in one place at the same time.

We don't have a problem with the 'elemental' forces, but we want to keep them in their place ...

Something like the purpose for having the DIRs on this site. Bringing everyone together in one place will cause disharmony, and goodness we don't want that.

 

[Vinayaka]

This was my thinking. If these energies exist, we don't have the tools to detect them. But whether one senses something about someone based on an unseen force or from their body language/facial expression, for the moment doesn't seem to matter .They both achieve the same thing - communication, albeit on a more subtle level.

:camp:

The operative word in this case is 'subtle'.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm not discounting the mystical aspect, because there are many things science cannot and probably will not ever be able to explain. Some things are definitely in the realm of the mystical and the supra-mundane. However, for a scientific explanation, like other animals, we give off pheromones depending on our physical states, maybe our mental states too. We pick up on these subconsciously. Maybe therein lies part of the ability of some people to be in tune to this. Again, this doesn't discount the ability of some people to perceive the energies given off by others, including what the body is doing inside.

 

[Vinayaka]

For the record, there are several other reasons for not attending a temple. While angry, while grieving, after the birth of a child...

It varies but most Hindus follow all of these in some way. Much of the same reasons apply. Angry attracts angry for sure.

 

[ShivaFan]

I think you should first try to grasp which tradition the temple reflects first, sometimes this may need a little "work" on your own part such as (1) look for obvious aspects, such as which Murtis, celebrations or pujas, etc... yes this may be a "learning curve" for some, then once you believe you have put a temple into a "catergory" (e.g. "oh, this must be North Indian Vaishnava Temple with emphasis on Krishna bhakti") then you can (2) adjust to what expectatons there are from guests and devotees.

Personally, I do not think you should visit any Murti for darshan, or any Ashram for instruction, without bathing or self-cleaning simply to set your mind on respect for the residence of the temple/ashram/teacher, if you are bleeding just wait before going.

However, such tradition is not true for EVERY temple, there is a Devi temple of tantric tradition on an island not too far drive from me which thinks mensturation is a great thing or even think it is holy. But I do not follow that, so I do not go to that temple, it is not my path (which does contain a Devi worship in a big way, but not that path).

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[George-ananda]

As far a s science goes, no Hindu needs anyone to prove something they already believe in, and I seriously doubt that science can yet detect such subtle energies.

I know science can't detect the subtle energies or they would be a known phenomenon to science.

My thinking for testing would be more along the lines of testing the priests accuracy against chance. For example, do a test and send in a group of menstruating women into the temple (without being physically seen by the priests), and query the priests after on how they judge the environment. Also do the same tests with non-menstruating women and query how the priests judge the environment afterwards.

I know you might object to the defiling of the temple for the sake of science but for now I just want to get at how testing can be done without scientists physically detecting subtle energies.

 

[George-ananda]

As far a s science goes, no Hindu needs anyone to prove something they already believe in, .

I tried telling something similar to the above to a strong atheist on RF and got facepalmed.


I know, I know I shouldn't care what he thinks or calls silly superstitions. My bad.

 

[Sb1995]

This is probably the dumbest question I have seen asked after "do hindus believe in jesus". Why do they need to police the rule, obviously devotees will respect this..wtf..Do not let my words represent the rest of the Hindus on this forum by the way

 

[Vinayaka]

No traditional Hindus would ever do that. It reeks of total disrespect for the custom. It's like teenagers going drunk to school just to see if the teacher notices.

 

[Vinayaka]

No traditional Hindus would ever do that. It reeks of total disrespect for the custom. It's like teenagers going drunk to school just to see if the teacher notices.

But one of the reasons we have kumbhabhishekams is for the 'accidental' or unknowing.

Another 'mundane' factor is just excessive talk. That brings mundane into the sacred too.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am seriously interested. But with your brand of materialist-atheism there are no invisible vibrations nor the capacity for one to read them. And none known to western science. My intellectual curiosity would not let it go as a light-hearted thing.

I do not know. He would made a statement and something in my reply would make him say what he said.

While angry, while grieving, after the birth of a child...

or death. Sutaka - period of impurity (ashoucha).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Now a days, even with medicine to help symptoms, I can imagine a woman going through her monthy cycle would give off certain "vibes".

Smell, for example. Harmonal changes during menstruation. Doctors can smell a diabetic. An elephant in heat went berserk smelling a menstruating woman in a crowd (they say) in Thrissur and ended up killing a few people.

[youtube]ynt68JMNFiw[/youtube]
Thrissur pooram 2012 elephant attack.mp4 - YouTube

 

[Pegg]

This is probably the dumbest question I have seen asked after "do hindus believe in jesus". Why do they need to police the rule, obviously devotees will respect this..wtf..Do not let my words represent the rest of the Hindus on this forum by the way

ok, fair point.

But what if someone didnt respect the rule and went to the temple anyway. What would the priests do if they believed someone was menstruating?

 

[Aupmanyav]

If the temple management is concerned about it, they will discreetly ask, and if necessary probably close the temple for purification rituals. Many temples could not care less.

 

[Pegg]

If the temple management is concerned about it, they will discreetly ask, and if necessary probably close the temple for purification rituals. Many temples could not care less.

so I take it that only certain sects have this rule then ?

 

[ShivaFan]

I *think* I actually observed something of this once in a temple. Now as I say, I *think*, I don't know for a fact but on inference. But the pujari at the temple was very nice, did not act as if she was "guilty" or make her feel "uncomfortable", but did not offer all the services such as related to puja.

Now, normally there is a bath after the 4th day (sometimes 5th day), and then you can go to the puja. You have to also understand, there was a period of time in the past when taking a bath might have been difficult, so even I as a man would not go to puja without a bath before but in those days it might have been difficult for me to take a bath. Even today, cleanliness is sometimes a problem in some countries. I am going to Africa perhaps in August, and I will be passing through areas where there may be an issue of cleanliness, not only the conditions of others, but I am worried a bit for myself too. This is also a region where about 150 miles away there have been Ebola virus outbreaks, you can imagine how scary that is. In the past, cleanliness was also linked with disease, and obviously you can make a connection to that today even though there wasn't an understanding of bacteria verse virus and so on. Long in the past, there was access to clean rivers and such, but then by the middle ages a lot of things had changed.

Today I was just reading a story of a very serious issue in China of polluted water situation effecting drinking water now. It does not hurt to have a society that tries to emphasize keeping things clean, at all levels. When you live where there is small populations, that may be easier. When you live in an area of high population and crowded conditions, it starts to become more difficult and a premium. That is simply the way of the world, but even when we fail at it, we must still try to instill the idea of why cleanliness if good. In Holland culture for example, this was a strong ideation in the 1600's, and everyone was constantly washing and washing the tiled and brick patios, in the houses and so on. Probably it was "overboard" in one sense, but it did help mitigate some issues that were a serious issue in England (verse Holland).

By the way, a pujari will avoid doing puja if the pujari (priest) has cut notably a finger with blood flow. Such things are expected of the pujari, too.

I do think that events around an area create vibration in the air, or in the solid objects around. I do think there is something to the old song "good vibrations". If there is enough water, then we should all take advantage of bathing!

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Pegg]

I *think* I actually observed something of this once in a temple. Now as I say, I *think*, I don't know for a fact but on inference. But the pujari at the temple was very nice, did not act as if she was "guilty" or make her feel "uncomfortable", but did not offer all the services such as related to puja.

Now, normally there is a bath after the 4th day (sometimes 5th day), and then you can go to the puja. You have to also understand, there was a period of time in the past when taking a bath might have been difficult, so even I as a man would not go to puja without a bath before but in those days it might have been difficult for me to take a bath. Even today, cleanliness is sometimes a problem in some countries. I am going to Africa perhaps in August, and I will be passing through areas where there may be an issue of cleanliness, not only the conditions of others, but I am worried a bit for myself too. This is also a region where about 150 miles away there have been Ebola virus outbreaks, you can imagine how scary that is. In the past, cleanliness was also linked with disease, and obviously you can make a connection to that today even though there wasn't an understanding of bacteria verse virus and so on. Long in the past, there was access to clean rivers and such, but then by the middle ages a lot of things had changed.

Today I was just reading a story of a very serious issue in China of polluted water situation effecting drinking water now. It does not hurt to have a society that tries to emphasize keeping things clean, at all levels. When you live where there is small populations, that may be easier. When you live in an area of high population and crowded conditions, it starts to become more difficult and a premium. That is simply the way of the world, but even when we fail at it, we must still try to instill the idea of why cleanliness if good. In Holland culture for example, this was a strong ideation in the 1600's, and everyone was constantly washing and washing the tiled and brick patios, in the houses and so on. Probably it was "overboard" in one sense, but it did help mitigate some issues that were a serious issue in England (verse Holland).

By the way, a pujari will avoid doing puja if the pujari (priest) has cut notably a finger with blood flow. Such things are expected of the pujari, too.

I do think that events around an area create vibration in the air, or in the solid objects around. I do think there is something to the old song "good vibrations". If there is enough water, then we should all take advantage of bathing!

Om Namah Sivaya

I guess the question arises why a man with a cut finger can still go into the temple, but a woman with menstrual flow cannot. If its just a concern for contamination by blood, then both flows can be stopped through proper sanitation and dressings.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

I guess the question arises why a man with a cut finger can still go into the temple

It depends again on the school and temple management but, a open wound count also as a reason not to attend temple. A slight cut on a finger or whatever is ok, but any bigger wound and a man/woman should not attend temple until fully healed.

For the rest, I have the same reasons as VinayakaJi.

 

[Vinayaka]

ok, fair point.

But what if someone didn't respect the rule and went to the temple anyway. What would the priests do if they believed someone was menstruating?

They, or an elder, would just be discreet. I've witnessed a family once with a very young baby get turned away. With babies, in the culture I'm most familiar with, the birth avoidance is 31 days. Others are 21, or some communities it is 11. This baby was only 3 days old. Mostly it is just people not being familiar with a custom.

Hindu weddings are held in halls, not temples, for all these reasons.