Mental Health

[Spiderman]

Since this is a religious forum, there is a factor most people either ignore or pretend does not exist. Many of these people are under Satan's influence. There are examples in the Bible where Jesus drove out demons that were tormenting people. Satan and his demons are still on the loose and torment people today. Medicine can do nothing about this, only the power of God can help. Of course a psychiatrist would be laughed at or fired from his job if he mentioned this so these people do not get the help they need.

That would explain why prayer has helped me tremendously, and professional help and medication has done little for me

 

[Spiderman]

@Epic Beard Man I have a MA in psych but never really used it as a clinician. But I do know what you mean. There are people who abuse the system and would abuse any system. They are locked into a pattern of life. Those are the ones that naturally you see over and over and over.

I've also met some who have mental issues who don't recognize that they have an issue and that's sad because there's nothing that can be done for them.

There are others and I classify @PopeADope as one, who are fighters and who know they have a problem and who truly want to overcome their problems but who also struggle every day with the odds against them. These people deserve metals for bravery because it's a hard struggle when the enemy is oneself.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People need to want to get better. I was an idealist before getting into mental health but I've been slightly jaded in the sense that a lot of people overuse emergency rooms as a means to have this cyclical scheme where they're like "hey let me smoke this meth and act crazy, have the police pick me up and place me on a hold and do this all over again." I'm of the opinion that if you want to kill yourself, do it. If you want to give up the life God gave you do it. But it makes no sense that if me or any other clinician sit down and actually look you in the eye and sincerely want you to get treatment, it gets spat back in our face. I mean, suicidal patients have no problem demanding food and juice but wont demand to get better by getting help. But it seems doing the work yourself is too much and this is the additional problem of mental health. People need to have a want to get better, using temporary services like emergency rooms is not the answer.

And I want to walk into the storm, lol. But good thing I have years of experience tolerating and remaining civil towards those of sometimes completely and totally opposite viewpoints. Maybe my "sales pitch" when I'm looking for work there when asked about how I get along with others, I'll just say I come from Indiana, and killed no one. I'm a caring person, I'm just already cynical, lol.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I believe that one of the biggest compounding factors of some mental illnesses is when people refuse to admit that they need help. For instance, some people with borderline personality disorder refuse to go to the psychiatrist as much as needed because they believe they're fine without one, even though their illness negatively and overwhelmingly affects them and those around them. Generally, I think one of the first steps to solving a problem is to admit it exists, and that applies to health issues too.

As someone who has been to six psychiatrists and two psychologists in addition to trying twelve medications for depression, I strongly believe that you should keep trying. Sometimes a change in doctors or medication is required, but not seeking help at all not only can cause oneself more pain but also can cause a lot of pain to those around the person. Society's responsibility, as far as I can see, is to understand and be helpful to patients in whatever capacity possible. The patients' responsibility, on the other hand, is to be willing to get help or at least make sure they don't unnecessarily burden and trouble those around them when seeking professional help could spare everyone involved effort, time, and pain.

You're absolutely right. Right now I'm at work speaking to Mr. "B" (for HIPAA reasons I cannot say the last name) but he was telling me that the reason he is in the hospital is because he was depressed and although his psychiatric medication helps, his environment made him depressed to where he stopped taking it. It's amazing to hear his story about his struggle.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This might be an odd question, but why would a mental health facility let someone out, with no place to go once they leave, knowing that they attempted suicide a few times, and are on strong medications? This seems like it's setting the person up for failure, and it could cause that person harm, or others. Just trying to understand where does the responsibility begin and end with the mental health facility?

In my country it comes down to economics. It costs nearly $1000 per day for the government to provide a bed in a psychiatric facility. It is often hard to admit someone into hospital as there are no beds available.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Since this is a religious forum, there is a factor most people either ignore or pretend does not exist. Many of these people are under Satan's influence. There are examples in the Bible where Jesus drove out demons that were tormenting people. Satan and his demons are still on the loose and torment people today. Medicine can do nothing about this, only the power of God can help. Of course a psychiatrist would be laughed at or fired from his job if he mentioned this so these people do not get the help they need.

I worked as a psychiatry registrar for seven years and have been a general practitioner for nearly ten years now. It has been my personal experience that this belief in Satan and demons causing mental health problems makes people better, not worse.

 

[Dawnofhope]

As some of you know I work with psychiatric patients at my local hospital in Los Angeles California and I've noticed (at least on this forum in Dope's thread) there is a pattern I've learned with psychiatric patients is that a lot of them tend to justify the behavior of others. By justification, I'm not saying they intently justify the destructive behavior (although some drug addicts do) but they tend to say "hey this guy was just tormented" or "hey he is an intelligent guy and rational" yet by doing such waters down the ultimately destructive behavior of that individual. One of the infinitely frustrating things us clinicians face especially in emergency medicine and psychiatry are those that DO NOT WANT HELP.

For example I tend to deal with a lot of homeless individuals who are drug addicts with nowhere to go and what happens is a lot of them utilize emergency rooms as "hotels" of sorts by complaining of suicidal ideation. Usually, when that happens we triage them and place them in a room or a waiting room. A physician will do a second assessment of their medical/mental health. Usually the question is "do you want to harm yourself or others?" The usual response is "yes" the following question is "how would you do it?" The usual answer would be "jump into traffic" or you'll get some interesting answers.

Many of these individuals get placed on holds for 72 hours (5150) then go to our psychiatric facility and get follow up treatment there. I think many of us clinicians (myself included) get jaded are those that receive follow up help care in the form of referrals and other forms which ought to aid them. Most times these patients throw these referrals in the trash. Some try to follow up and just fall off the road (these are the ones I feel sorry for because they're really trying)) but I've noticed a lot of psychiatric patients do not want to get better because it forces them to actually do the work and not have their hand held doing it.

People need to want to get better. I was an idealist before getting into mental health but I've been slightly jaded in the sense that a lot of people overuse emergency rooms as a means to have this cyclical scheme where they're like "hey let me smoke this meth and act crazy, have the police pick me up and place me on a hold and do this all over again." I'm of the opinion that if you want to kill yourself, do it. If you want to give up the life God gave you do it. But it makes no sense that if me or any other clinician sit down and actually look you in the eye and sincerely want you to get treatment, it gets spat back in our face. I mean, suicidal patients have no problem demanding food and juice but wont demand to get better by getting help. But it seems doing the work yourself is too much and this is the additional problem of mental health. People need to have a want to get better, using temporary services like emergency rooms is not the answer.

Edit: I've been suicidal before after my mother's passing and while cleaning my gun one day, assembled my gun back placed one bullet in the chamber coked it back and held it to my head. The only thing that kept me from doing it (aside from being afraid) was I made a promise to my mother I'd graduate college. Also, what would my family think of my brain matter being splattered all over the walls? What would my brother who loves me think? How would that effect him or my extended family? The road has never been easy and I personally continue to fight demons of depression, anger, and rage but God dang it, if I can truck it through I know someone in a far worse situation can. People need to have the mentality of refusing to lay down and die.

After seven years working in psychiatry and nearly twenty years in health, my biggest lesson remains to take people as they are, not to judge them, and find some common ground where I can assist others to head in the right direction, no matter how small that step might be. Never lose hope, never lose faith, and always see the positives in others.

All the best with the challenging work you dedicate yourself to.

 

[sun rise]

There are many like the one mentioned in this story that don't manipulate the system. I hope all the attention and help he's now getting pays off.

Homeless Man Sobs In Burger King But Doesn’t Know A Stranger Put Photo On Facebook To Save Him

 

[Laika]

Edit: I've been suicidal before after my mother's passing and while cleaning my gun one day, assembled my gun back placed one bullet in the chamber coked it back and held it to my head. The only thing that kept me from doing it (aside from being afraid) was I made a promise to my mother I'd graduate college. Also, what would my family think of my brain matter being splattered all over the walls? What would my brother who loves me think? How would that effect him or my extended family? The road has never been easy and I personally continue to fight demons of depression, anger, and rage but God dang it, if I can truck it through I know someone in a far worse situation can. People need to have the mentality of refusing to lay down and die.

I've had depression for nine years. It will be the ninth anniversary of dropping out of University in three weeks time. It doesn't feel like nine years of course. Nothing having a job and being at home means it feels more like centuries. If you were watching it on TV- it feels like the first part of my life is a five minute window followed by hours of static. They don't have equal weight although there are some positive experience that feel very vivid. I used counselling twice when I lost confidence in myself; the first time was when I left university, the second was when the guy I developed a bi/gay crush on became an arms dealer. You don't need a lot of imagination to realise the second one was the closest to being suicidal because it screwed with just about everything I believed about myself, the world and the guy I was in love with all whilst trying to come out as bisexual. It passed though and I have never used medication because I "wanted" to experience the symptoms. If you know what the symptoms are- you can figure out what's causing them and have much greater control over the recovery process.

I can relate to what you say about suicide. It does take a refusal to give up, which is often deeply irrational but you have to accept that you are worth fighting for. I remember that when I was suicidal, I would joke to myself "if life really is that futile, what's the point in killing yourself? leave it till tomorrow". Its black but it kept me going as the desire passes. its all about wanting to escape so there is a kind of balance between not doing it and accepting its there. The biggest part of the problem is the unreality of suicide because thinking about it is if you are someone else watching yourself doing it. There is that disconnect. When you start to get past it, it becomes more "real" and much more difficult to think about.

Anyway, I'm not trying to burden you with my problems. I'm just sharing so you know you're not alone.

If I can give you some advice, I think that if you are working with and therefore surrounded by people who are suicidal, it is entirely rational to take its toll because people are trying to live off you. Its not your fault. You can do something for them but you owe them nothing. I found it is important that to survive you have to be a selfish ****. It doesn't mean I don't care or that I don't get hurt but it can put some distance between myself and others and have good boundaries. There is a very painful sense of having to let go and accepting you can't control the situation. You've probably already been through this a few times if you heard a patient died.

There was a clip from an episode of House MD ("Three Stories", Series 1, Episode 21) where Doctor House is lecturing a group of medical students and he said that you have to be prepared to lose some of your patients. It stuck with me because it put the idealism of wanting to "help people" in context. I think as your in a situation with suicidal patients, it may be worth taking a step back and ask whether you should refuse to lie down and "die" by watching others do it to themselves. If you're in an abusive relationship you have to know when to end it. The difference about the doctor-patient relationship is that you're not in a relationship with one abusive person but many. Just because "everybody lies" doesn't mean you have to go along with it and buy into the myths people make up for themselves. The danger in wanting to help people is that you become co-dependent and feed their myths in exchanging for feeding a belief in your own myths. It takes a lot of ego to want to help people and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Its about deciding which is more valuable, the illusionary self based on good intentions, or the life you could have by trying to have good consequences that make you and others happy. Its not easy- but its your life.

I'm assuming you included the fact you're suicidal in the OP as that was a cry for help and that something happened recently that's brought it back to the surface. I'm hoping my advice- even if its almost certainly unwelcome- may give another perspective.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

After seven years working in psychiatry and nearly twenty years in health, my biggest lesson remains to take people as they are, not to judge them, and find some common ground where I can assist others to head in the right direction, no matter how small that step might be. Never lose hope, never lose faith, and always see the positives in others.

All the best with the challenging work you dedicate yourself to.

I agree that we ought to take people as they are, but even in that, there is a threshold. There comes a point in time where we should not simply remain stagnant in our resolve to abhor users in the medical field. Mental health is a real issue and those that try and utilize loopholes for personal gain is tiresome. In my field there repetitiveness does make you have compassion fatigue. Thank you for your well wishes!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I've had depression for nine years. It will be the ninth anniversary of dropping out of University in three weeks time. It doesn't feel like nine years of course. Nothing having a job and being at home means it feels more like centuries. If you were watching it on TV- it feels like the first part of my life is a five minute window followed by hours of static. They don't have equal weight although there are some positive experience that feel very vivid. I used counselling twice when I lost confidence in myself; the first time was when I left university, the second was when the guy I developed a bi/gay crush on became an arms dealer. You don't need a lot of imagination to realise the second one was the closest to being suicidal because it screwed with just about everything I believed about myself, the world and the guy I was in love with all whilst trying to come out as bisexual. It passed though and I have never used medication because I "wanted" to experience the symptoms. If you know what the symptoms are- you can figure out what's causing them and have much greater control over the recovery process.

I can relate to what you say about suicide. It does take a refusal to give up, which is often deeply irrational but you have to accept that you are worth fighting for. I remember that when I was suicidal, I would joke to myself "if life really is that futile, what's the point in killing yourself? leave it till tomorrow". Its black but it kept me going as the desire passes. its all about wanting to escape so there is a kind of balance between not doing it and accepting its there. The biggest part of the problem is the unreality of suicide because thinking about it is if you are someone else watching yourself doing it. There is that disconnect. When you start to get past it, it becomes more "real" and much more difficult to think about.

Anyway, I'm not trying to burden you with my problems. I'm just sharing so you know you're not alone.

If I can give you some advice, I think that if you are working with and therefore surrounded by people who are suicidal, it is entirely rational to take its toll because people are trying to live off you. Its not your fault. You can do something for them but you owe them nothing. I found it is important that to survive you have to be a selfish ****. It doesn't mean I don't care or that I don't get hurt but it can put some distance between myself and others and have good boundaries. There is a very painful sense of having to let go and accepting you can't control the situation. You've probably already been through this a few times if you heard a patient died.

There was a clip from an episode of House MD ("Three Stories", Series 1, Episode 21) where Doctor House is lecturing a group of medical students and he said that you have to be prepared to lose some of your patients. It stuck with me because it put the idealism of wanting to "help people" in context. I think as your in a situation with suicidal patients, it may be worth taking a step back and ask whether you should refuse to lie down and "die" by watching others do it to themselves. If you're in an abusive relationship you have to know when to end it. The difference about the doctor-patient relationship is that you're not in a relationship with one abusive person but many. Just because "everybody lies" doesn't mean you have to go along with it and buy into the myths people make up for themselves. The danger in wanting to help people is that you become co-dependent and feed their myths in exchanging for feeding a belief in your own myths. It takes a lot of ego to want to help people and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Its about deciding which is more valuable, the illusionary self based on good intentions, or the life you could have by trying to have good consequences that make you and others happy. Its not easy- but its your life.

I'm assuming you included the fact you're suicidal in the OP as that was a cry for help and that something happened recently that's brought it back to the surface. I'm hoping my advice- even if its almost certainly unwelcome- may give another perspective.

Wow such a powerful story you shared and I appreciate it, it seems you have dealt with and are still dealing with it but I hope you receive the help from others who can get you out of the depths of your own suffering. Let me clear some things up regarding my own story (I owe you that since you've shared a powerful and touching story). My suicidal attempt was done at the age of 20-21, I'm currently 35. You must understand that when my mother contracted breast cancer during my senior year of high school, I dealt with a lot of stress with her and her health not to mention my efforts in getting recruited for basketball at a four year university. I have went through the experience of her getting a mastectomy, then radiation and then when things were looking up when she went into remission, I thought my nightmare was over. Unfortunately during our moving back to California and her not taking a specific medication (which I guess was to help keep cancerous cells resurfacing) her cancer came back and was more aggressive. How I found out was when my mother went to work a few hours in, her work called stating she seemed disorient. When I spoke to her she was not making any sense. Long story short, when we saw an oncologist, the doctor stated the tumors were all over her brain. Eventually my mother forgot things and especially was confused between me and my brother. She eventually deteriorated into a state where she could not take care of herself. She needed in home care such as a patient bed in our apartment. Eventually, she went into a nursing home were she deteriorated more and died. I was 19 and never experienced death up close especially my own mother. I cannot even talk about it without crying because for a teenager to experience that was overwhelming. So I suffered from depression and never sought help. Unfortunately in the African-American community mental health is not taken seriously and often times is looked at in a negative light. Although I spent my days crying and thinking about her, I at one point wanted o end it but I realized I need to make the promise of graduating college, and I did!

I went further receiving my masters in neuropsychology and currently receiving another masters in social work so I used my pain into energy but often times I do get down. I do my best to occupy my time with positive things. But with no spouse and no kids of my own I find myself alone most times. But I just learn to deal with it. I will say that in the evolution of all that, I do realize my patience and anger does at times resurface.

 

[Laika]

Wow such a powerful story you shared and I appreciate it, it seems you have dealt with and are still dealing with it but I hope you receive the help from others who can get you out of the depths of your own suffering.

Thanks.

I was about 19 when I left University and 24 when I came out. I'm 28 now. The depression comes and goes, but has become much more manageable. I started working at a charity shop this year so I am doing something vaguely productive with my time. Its not much and I'd like to do more (or rather "feel" that I am doing more with my life), but its still a hope of something better.

Let me clear some things up regarding my own story (I owe you that since you've shared a powerful and touching story). My suicidal attempt was done at the age of 20-21, I'm currently 35. You must understand that when my mother contracted breast cancer during my senior year of high school, I dealt with a lot of stress with her and her health not to mention my efforts in getting recruited for basketball at a four year university. I have went through the experience of her getting a mastectomy, then radiation and then when things were looking up when she went into remission, I thought my nightmare was over. Unfortunately during our moving back to California and her not taking a specific medication (which I guess was to help keep cancerous cells resurfacing) her cancer came back and was more aggressive. How I found out was when my mother went to work a few hours in, her work called stating she seemed disorient. When I spoke to her she was not making any sense. Long story short, when we saw an oncologist, the doctor stated the tumors were all over her brain. Eventually my mother forgot things and especially was confused between me and my brother. She eventually deteriorated into a state where she could not take care of herself. She needed in home care such as a patient bed in our apartment. Eventually, she went into a nursing home were she deteriorated more and died. I was 19 and never experienced death up close especially my own mother. I cannot even talk about it without crying because for a teenager to experience that was overwhelming. So I suffered from depression and never sought help. Unfortunately in the African-American community mental health is not taken seriously and often times is looked at in a negative light. Although I spent my days crying and thinking about her, I at one point wanted o end it but I realized I need to make the promise of graduating college, and I did!

I went further receiving my masters in neuropsychology and currently receiving another masters in social work so I used my pain into energy but often times I do get down. I do my best to occupy my time with positive things. But with no spouse and no kids of my own I find myself alone most times. But I just learn to deal with it. I will say that in the evolution of all that, I do realize my patience and anger does at times resurface.

Ok, I understand now. I was reading between the lines as I wasn't sure what the context of you feeling suicidal was but people generally don't bring it up unless they have a reason to. I can definitely see why you'd feel that way. That's painful.

*virtual hug sent*




Both my parents are still alive so I can't imagine what you went through, especially in such an intimate way of watching your mother deteriorate like that. Its very cruel and would have been a lot to take in for someone who was only 19. Most people don't really understand mental health problems unless they have actually experienced them because its not obvious. Although nowadays its become so common, that that will probably change. I think by the time my generation grows up some of the taboos will have been broken as everyone will know someone whose had problems. Its not how I'd like to see things change but it will probably have to. RF is useful as a kind of support group as there are so many depressives on here, although this is the nut house. Its a good grounding exercise to be spend time with other people online but it can't beat face to face conversations.

p.s. If you want a wife and kids, go for it. Don't let that job stop you from doing other things. I'm sure your mum would be proud of you no matter what you do.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Thanks.

I was about 19 when I left University and 24 when I came out. I'm 28 now. The depression comes and goes, but has become much more manageable. I started working at a charity shop this year so I am doing something vaguely productive with my time. Its not much and I'd like to do more (or rather "feel" that I am doing more with my life), but its still a hope of something better.



Ok, I understand now. I was reading between the lines as I wasn't sure what the context of you feeling suicidal was but people generally don't bring it up unless they have a reason to. I can definitely see why you'd feel that way. That's painful.

*virtual hug sent*




Both my parents are still alive so I can't imagine what you went through, especially in such an intimate way of watching your mother deteriorate like that. Its very cruel and would have been a lot to take in for someone who was only 19. Most people don't really understand mental health problems unless they have actually experienced them because its not obvious. Although nowadays its become so common, that that will probably change. I think by the time my generation grows up some of the taboos will have been broken as everyone will know someone whose had problems. Its not how I'd like to see things change but it will probably have to. RF is useful as a kind of support group as there are so many depressives on here, although this is the nut house. Its a good grounding exercise to be spend time with other people online but it can't beat face to face conversations.

p.s. If you want a wife and kids, go for it. Don't let that job stop you from doing other things. I'm sure your mum would be proud of you no matter what you do.

Thank you appreciate the gesture.....I think the thing that causes healing at least psychologically, is having those that have suffered and are going through behavioral modification, support one another. Quite honestly I'm unhappy professionally where I'm at in life.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It has been my personal experience that this belief in Satan and demons causing mental health problems makes people better, not worse.

There are no devils or demons to treat, however, and it can totally displace responsibility away from the client and onto non-existent fictional characters. How is someone supposed to improve themselves if they have a readily available supernatural entity to blame?

 

[Dawnofhope]

There are no devils or demons to treat, however, and it can totally displace responsibility away from the client and onto non-existent fictional characters. How is someone supposed to improve themselves if they have a readily available supernatural entity to blame?

That is true. However some people become really tormented by these kinds of beliefs. At some stage we need to have a more mature understanding of the workings of our inner selves, and if we attribute the darker side of our very human nature to external satanic forces it retards our psychological development.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thank you appreciate the gesture.....I think the thing that causes healing at least psychologically, is having those that have suffered and are going through behavioral modification, support one another. Quite honestly I'm unhappy professionally where I'm at in life.

I found myself much happier when I moved from mental health work into primary health care. There was still an abundance of mental health work and the skills I had learnt were an invaluable. However I was seeing people from all walks of life and making much better use of my training. I still know colleagues that are trapped in their careers from having worked in mental health too long and lack confidence and energy to make a much needed change.