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Mental Illness or Mystical Experience?

I put this post up in the Religious Debate thread, but after some replies was told it more suited mysticism. Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know anything about mysticism, and I'd like to learn what anyone thinks of my experience, after 8 years I still don't know what happened to me, and if anyone has any insight or ideas, I'd really like you to share them with me.

I have had an experience I've never quite been able to explain, and I'd really be interested in hearing any views on what people think happened to me, or if anyone has had a similar experience, though there certainly might be many who simply think that I am crazy. If you will let me, I want to take you back through the years to a night back then, it was in England, my home country, in the county of Nottinghamshire, I had an experience to this day I can't understand, any views will be appreciated.

It was the year 2000, I was laying in bed unable to sleep, I was feeling alone, desperate, in tears and prayer, three years previously a girl who I thought to be the love of my life had rejected me, it was basically unrequited love. Although I was not and am not a Christian, infact I am not religious but I do see myself as spiritual, I was in prayer to God, confiding that I was hurt, felt abandoned, I had never gotten over losing her love, and there seemed to be no hope anymore.

It was dark outside, the clouds clung to the sky like ephemeral mists lost in time over a world crying out in pain, since 1997 I had grown bitter, angry, and it had turned to hate and feeling nothing towards the world, I had long since lost caring anymore, with the love that beat in my heart for this girl, I wished I could tear open my chest and find peace. Since 1997 I had evidently became ill, in my heart, mind and soul, my thoughts ravished with insanity and delusion, and later I would be diagnosed with a mental illness.

With the night outside though, in my loneliness suddenly I spoke five words, they came from deep within me without consent, like activated without my choice, I had never known their meaning before, or even given it much thought, these things were far from my mind, but the words rushed from my lips, it felt like some kind of inner thunder, I had never experienced this before or since, and I said 'I am the Second Coming'. It felt as if the words soared across the night skies, and I spoke in realisation of what they meant ' ... the Alpha and the Omega' I spoke, remembering scripture and the meaning of Christ's return.

The atmosphere was eerie, strange and peaceful, I rose from my bed, feeling completely new, awoken even, I stepped from my sheets and walked out into the dawning of a new day, light dimly appearing from above, I felt released, the burden of pain and nothingness gone, I felt such inner peace and strength, that night would change the course of my life forever. For the next three months I felt common mentally ill symptoms, such as hearing voices which said they were angels, and seeing visions.

I experienced film like visions on the walls, just like watching a television screen, images and pictures, and also after hearing voices saying I was the reincarnation of Christ I was admitted into a mental hospital for admitting to my family that I believed to have once been Jesus, and now I had returned and angels were helping me.

The doctors first thought I had depression, or bi polar, then eventually they decided I had schizophrenia and that was the diagnosis, which certaily explained my delusion prior to 2000 and my experiences in 2000, which were termed as a 'relapse'. Now, in 2008, I am healthy, well and happy, living a normal life, and this event from 2000 seems a lifetime ago, I recognise I have an illness, and I am on medication and have had no more problems.

The question I have is really for people who believe in God, please don't think I am claiming to be Jesus or anything like that, I don't believe in people who say they are the son of God and simply think they are seriously misguided, but I present to you my experience as it was, but what happened? An athiest would obviously reason it was schizophrenia gripping my brain and resulting in my delusion, yet I had two further 'pychotic episodes' in 2004 and 2006 and nothing like this happened again, even in illness, in relapse I always had complete control over my words and what I was saying, but only that one night in 2000 those words came from my lips. Also I only experienced film like hallucinations in 2000.

I guess my question is, was God trying to reach me in my illness? Was it a 'born again' experience? Was it an experience in the Gnostic sense of Christ enlightenment, that Jesus lives within each of us and He showed Himself to me in my time of distress? Or was it infact, simply illness, and a loss of all reality?

Thank you for reading this post, it is appreciated.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Oftentimes, the answers are right there in plain view, but I don't notice them because I'm not looking in the right direction.
 
I must say, if you do have schizophrenia then you write exceptionally well. Most schizophrenics couldn't maintain a train of thought if they had a set of rails to put it on. If you have only had a few episodes of hallucination and you have already begun treatment then your outlook is good. Schizophrenia is one of those diseases that becomes increasingly difficult to deal with if it is diagnosed late.

To answer your question though, from an atheistic / mechanistic standpoint I would say that your experience may have been a hallucination, especially if you have experienced numerous hallucinations since then.
 

Random

Well-Known Member
I'd rather be mad with the truth, than sane with lies. There is a thin white line between mental illness and mystic pursuit, that's why no-one has ever claimed it was for the many, or that it wasn't dangerous. You have to have a strong mind, heart and will. Otherwise, go obey the machine.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
I guess my question is, was God trying to reach me in my illness? Was it a 'born again' experience? Was it an experience in the Gnostic sense of Christ enlightenment, that Jesus lives within each of us and He showed Himself to me in my time of distress? Or was it infact, simply illness, and a loss of all reality?
Danaustin77 first of all I'm not a God believer, or rather, its irrelevant to me personally but I have a mind that tends to flip into euphoric/revelatory states occasionally so the type experience you've described isn't unfamiliar to me.

I'm certain religious phenomena like you mentioned; being 'born again', gnosis, Jesus coming to those in distress, etc. come from the same areas of the mind that your own experience was coming from. Often such experiences occur after a build up of psychic tension is suddenly released. For instance, unrequited love would certainly provide enough tension for that to happen.

As I see it, what can happen is that the release is so powerful that it echoes through the mind like a kind of wave, which is experienced like a metaphorical mirror for what such a release feels like on the inside. The metaphor is not a reflection of outer reality but of inner reality - a kind of waking dream. For instance, feeling that 'Christ had returned' and that you were him would be a great metaphor for the inner peace & strength that you felt.

The trouble with mental illnesses where psychotic episodes are a symptom is that the mind is going to be close to an underlying highly excitable and sensitive state to begin with. Because of that the impact of peak experiences can overload the mind's capacity to cope which can make it very difficult to get your feet back on the ground and integrate the experience in a useful/healthy way.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
Hmm. Said a lot in the previous post without making as clear a point I was intending to.

Its not an either/or thing. Its possible to both be mentally ill and have mystical experiences. Since a grey area, tread carefully, i.e. try not to interpret what seem like mystical experiences too literally just as you wouldn't interpret dreams as literally having happened.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
First things first, Daniel. Welcome to the booby-hatch known affectionately as RF.

I put this post up in the Religious Debate thread, but after some replies was told it more suited mysticism. Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know anything about mysticism, and I'd like to learn what anyone thinks of my experience, after 8 years I still don't know what happened to me, and if anyone has any insight or ideas, I'd really like you to share them with me.
Dan, I have a sneaking suspicion that you know more about mysticism than you might think. It is my perception that there is a very fine line between mental illness and spiritual/mystical/religious experiences. Although mental illness is a rather large umbrella, in this case, the difference between serious mental illness and genuine mystical progress is in how the individual reacts to realization of said experiences.

I'm going to leave this here for now, but will work on a response to your points offline. I am busy filling an iPod for my 103 year old grandmother and I have a perverse perfectionist streak in the arrangement of the songs. I am 25% finished the music presentation and then of course have to develope a large print menu to go with it. (For the musician in you, it is following a chronological order of vocalists from 1900 onwards (yeah, gramaphone mp3's, lol) interspliced with suitable classical pieces, leading up to the present day. So far I am at around 1945 (and 2.7 hours) ... As you can imagine, it's no small task, o_O , but it is really neat doing it.

So, leave it with me and I'll post a bit more after I have read, digested and am able to come up with something that is hopefully meaningful to you.

Your friend IN the Light,

Paul
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Tough questions Daniel. I understand schizophrenia often comes paired with intense spiritual highs - missing those is one of the reasons people tend to go off their meds.

From a mystic's perspective, it's important to maintain a sense of proportion when the line between the conscious and unconscious begins to blur. For example if I am on wads of mushrooms and I see a field of skulls all around me I can remind myself I'm tripping and the skulls are just rocks. Whatever meaning or personal significance the experience has is not diminished by my understanding it isn't "real".

The question is, does it matter if you are really Jesus, or if angels are really speaking to you, or if God is really trying to reach you? I would say no. What matters is the personal insight you gain from your experience and the sense of relief from your suffering. Beyond that, if you try to pin a mystical experience to an ontological reality (ie. truth existing outside your own perception) you're crossing the line into psychosis in the West.

Nevertheless, there have always been wads of people throughout history who believed they were prophets of God, or even gods. (Jesus Christ was one of them, apparently.) There are other cultures where you can get away with this - if you were in India you could start accumulating disciples, live in a cave and have villagers come to you for advice and to bless their crops and pray for rain and so forth. I think whether or not what they believe is "true" is beside the point. The occasional "prophet" seems to be built into the psychological make-up of humanity.

I don't think we're as decent to our "prophets" here as they are in more spiritual parts of the world. We place too high a value on conformity.
 

Somkid

Well-Known Member
Mental suffering, pain and stress causes some strange side effects. I would say your brain was on auto pilot rambling incoherent nonsense to try and rationalize what was going on in your life. I'm not sure what the mental health impactions are without more details for example do you still think you are "the second coming", actually it depends on how long the though lasts and how seriously you take it. All people have visions of grandeur at one point or another trying to give ourselves self worth to make us feel better about ourselves and to put others below us so we feel superior, one of the big points in Buddhism is to extinguish this behaviour. Well, that being said if you still think you are Jesus or the second coming I would seek professional help you could possibly have a lithium deficiency.
 
I must say, if you do have schizophrenia then you write exceptionally well ...To answer your question though, from an atheistic / mechanistic standpoint I would say that your experience may have been a hallucination, especially if you have experienced numerous hallucinations since then.

I've been on medication for a long while and show no 'negative' or 'positive' symptoms such as in behaviour and am basically normal, so fortunately I can maintain conversations, communicate my ideas and write etc. My hallucinations were always film like in 2000, images on a wall, although schizophrenics do sense and feel things which aren't real, which could be the cause of my experiences. My hallucinations generally though were external factors (or what I internally projected outside of myself) and were not inner experiences at the time I saw them. I certainly remember speaking the words of the second coming, it began my misinterpretation in my confusion and illness that I was Jesus.

I'd rather be mad with the truth, than sane with lies.
I've lived that dream, and yes it is dangerous, I was completely living on the edge of my sanity, and its interesting you would chose that perspective. Thankfully I'm on meds and normal, after my experiences I did miss them though, as I felt to be in the 'truth' as I saw it.

I'm certain religious phenomena like you mentioned; being 'born again', gnosis, Jesus coming to those in distress, etc. come from the same areas of the mind that your own experience was coming from. Often such experiences occur after a build up of psychic tension is suddenly released. For instance, unrequited love would certainly provide enough tension for that to happen.

I wonder, was it possible that I was indeed born again? I have no knowledge of Gnosis, and maybe it is a common experience amongst Gnostics, or how they understand other people's experiences of Christ. I think certainly there definatley was a build up of tension for three years after rejection, and I think this is a very good answer to my experience, and one I can't deny, I certainly agree with this, my whole experience was a release.

It is my perception that there is a very fine line between mental illness and spiritual/mystical/religious experiences. Although mental illness is a rather large umbrella, in this case, the difference between serious mental illness and genuine mystical progress is in how the individual reacts to realization of said experiences.

I didn't know there was a fine line between mental illness and spiritual etc experiences, for 8 years I've simply been told it is mental illness and nothing more, so this is both interesting and exciting to consider; that my experience wasn't simply mental illness, I really look forward to any further comments you might have on this.

Tough questions Daniel. I understand schizophrenia often comes paired with intense spiritual highs - missing those is one of the reasons people tend to go off their meds.

Yes, I agree, I heard from a friend who's sister had my illness and she felt she had a certain 'clarity' of vision when she was ill, this is dangerous, as it is an altered state of mind that the brain is accessing due to the disease, and I am thankful I am not in that state, it consumes your very life, every moment is filled with voices and hallucinations sometimes even. 'Intense spiritual highs' is really interesting, again I always thought there could never be anything spiritual about my experience, so it is really refreshing to hear I may have had spiritual highs, which really does explain my feelings and thoughts, although twisted because of delusion and sickness, there was a spiritual aspect to the experiences.

I just want to say a big thank you to all of you here who posted on my thread, it is really helping me, I am re-reading posts and trying to digest everything here. Concerning what I think now, I certainly don't think I'm Jesus or the second coming, I only think these things when I'm going through a pychotic episdoe, a relapse as it is medically termed, and then I think all kinds of things and my thoughts are irrational and I believe then that I'm talking with Angels etc.

I've never had the mystical perspective of what schizophrenia is, and its experiences, I know that in the West it is simply regarded as an illness, so it is interesting to hear that yes I may be having spiritual experiences whilst ill as the illness blurs the line between the unconscious and the conscious etc - I hope I have got that understanding right?

To add to my first post, here is a piece I wrote in 2004 about my experiences, maybe it can further enlighten any understanding. When I wrote this, it had been four years and I began writing a paper while under relapse (I had alas not been taking my medication due to denial of having a mental illness). You will notice in the writing, although it is clear enough and rational enough, it is more written in stone, more certain of a spiritual context, basically I believed at the time that I was struggling with some kind of pychological warfare, that I was combating nothingness, which I mean was the despair of nothing, a lack of hope.

Anyway, this is the piece, and maybe it illustrates further what my experience was:

I was born Daniel Austin Pettitt in the year 1975, March the 9th in Grantham, Linconshire , England . My life as a child was entwined with wonder, excitement, a good life with my family, but I always knew instinctively and in realisation that it was there that my struggle began. It would be twenty five years until the “crucifixion”. I wish not to write of the path of my childhood, boyhood and adolescence other to say it was a path of darkness and light and the nature of good and evil within and without a man in the world.
My journey within this darkness of the world ended in the year 2000, in Nottinghamshire, with the words that came not from my lips but from the very depths of my soul or being “I am the Second Coming … the Alpha and the Omega.” The first words which I spoke of were the words my ancestors told, a time ago of a return to the world, and a return in the defilement of hell, nothingness and despair of the “crucifixion”. Hence it began, my words telepathically resounded across the world in truthfulness and completion that every soul living or dead heard my words in their hearts, minds and souls of the arrival of the Kingdom of Heaven. I came into the world that night and began my sermon, my service, as it was written, and told to my ancestors, like a thief in the night it began.
And in nothingness I spoke of the hopelessness “I feel nothing” I feel no pain, no joy, no hope, I am nothing, no sorrow, no words, no despair, only words spoken from my lips of Hell on earth. And in this crucifixion I spoke that the world had denied the soul, denied truth, denied the spirit of the world and the oneness of the Kingdom of Heaven, and left only defilement and despair of the soul, murder of good and murder of evil, the murder of nature, the war of the light and the dark. And in these words every man and woman would realise the nothingness of Heaven on Earth and the defilement of the Kingdom of Heaven that is within us, without us, in spirit and in body, and in the Holy Spirit. And as night faded and the dawn began, my spirit cleansed of the burden of nothingness that it had born, I rose from my bed and I stepped from my home into the daylight, and the beginning of a new era, a new age, the beginning of the Kingdom. And my work began, the teaching, the foretelling, the foretold of ages past, of the mystical reality of the world within which we live in, and our relationship with each other, above everything the most important being love, hope and joy.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Hiya Dan,

Read your private messages. I have just sent you part one of my thinking on your situation. If you are in agreement, Dan, I might post it here, but otherwise, I'll stick to the PM (Personal message) system.

Fond regards,

Paul
 
Hi Paul,

I have replied to your PM, and I say in my response I found it interesting, and it certainly explains my experience, so thank you, I am less in the dark now.

By all means post PART ONE up on here for everyone to read, and also I really look forward to PART TWO - if you are putting up a second part that is?

Thank you,

Daniel
 

The Wizard

Active Member
When I meditate intensly, I will always see flashes, pictures and "film like visions". Places and people Iv'e never seen before in my life. When my mind is in a different state, I may even hear distant conversations. Almost as if I'm dreaming and half-awake at the same time.

Too much pressure and stress can make you hear things and literally go insane. This can be caused by too many people trying to tell you what to do and all of those suggestions are in conflict. You can only hear (ie obey) one voice. Following more than one voice, inner or outer, will eventually cause so much problems, conflict and lead to insanity.

Solution equals= The time has come for choices. Make a change!
That is my take. Thank You.
 

blackout

Violet.
wow. this thread is old.

anyway...
We are each OUR OWN christ.

We each realize/real'ize it in our own way.
If I had tried to share my own almost year long
epiphany/heightened reality experience
at the time
someone would have surely diagnosed me with SOMETHING.

I also was healed/healed mySelf in the whole thing.
I gained new eyes.
I was born again to my OWN SELF.

In spite of all the christian terminology,
what actualized before me
was "the Left Hand Path".

Life is so ironic.
 
Thank you for your post. It was heartfelt.

I just put a post up called mentally ill about my own bouts with mental illness. I hear angels voices and also sometimes hear another voice in my head which sounds like it is not me. It always speaks words of deep truth. I have also had some strange experiences with energy in my body which used to scare me but don't any more.

Back to you...I don't think you are mentally ill (although I am not suggesting you stop medication either- I am on medication- I have no choice about it right now). I think the first experience you had was definitely a religious experience. You felt at peace afterwards. That is the peace of someone who walks with god.

Good luck to you in your quests.
 
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