Merciful God?? I think not.

[Falvlun]

Question 1: Dinosaurs why do their fossils lay beneath us? God created the Heavens and the Earth, so on and so forth. He then created Adam and Eve.
Noah didn't load up a T-rex on his Arc. I'm sure Adam and Eve were not Neanderthals. There was no evolution according to Christian faith, there just WAS.
I will accept any answers or criticism however, there is one asnwer I will NOT accept. Which is, "Dinosaurs were placed on this earth to test our Christian Faith".

Good question, Religiousless. In this thread, a couple posts back, I explain a little about micro vs macro evolution, and how most Christians do accept micro-evolution. For example, in a Christian biology textbook, it was expounded that God could have just created one sort of dog/wolf thing, and the many various types of canines were formed by isolated populations, small genetic mutations, etc. Additionally, the Catholic Church has embraced evolution as a mechanism that God set in place to create genetic diversity.

Thus the Neanderthals can be explained as well. They could have simply been a population of humans that got cut off from the rest, and developed into a separate species. (FYI, Neanderthals are not considered to be an ancestor of homo sapiens sapiens, but a sister species that failed) There is also an interesting account in the Old Testament that says that back in the old days, seraphim and nephilim (angels) bred with the daughters of men. If true, the resulting child would be an interesting mix.

As for dinosaurs, I agree with you that the idea that God placed dinosaur fossils in the Earth's crust just to test our faith smacks a bit too much of Descartes' evil demon, manipulating reality just in order to deceive us.

However, just to play devil's advocate, there are other possible answers:
Noah brought dinosaur eggs onto the ark. The Earth's climate after a world-wide flood would undoubtably have shifted, and certain species, the dinosaurs among them, failed to thrive.

There are also accounts in the Old Testament of a "behemoth" and a "leviathin", and some Christians point to these as evidence that man and dinosaur lived together. An interesting theory, very Flintstone-esque, but the lack of human remains near those of dinosaurs make it a little untenable.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You call this "shoving" I merely wrote some things on a page ,much like the bible was written for us, but I 'm sure you would say that of Jesus if he were here telling you to "repent or perish" ..which by the way was his first sermon he preached to people!
I'm sorry you feel that way ,but Paul says; "they hate the light and won't come into the light for fear their deeds will be exposed"
I pray for sinners that God reaches into their lives ,but they continue to refuse the truth that is before them!!!
The bible says,"they surpress the truth"


So if I tell you to repent of your sins or you will perish, that according to you is hatered and intolerance....!If this is classified as a hate crime, how can you accept Jesus and his call for you to repent. He tells Christians to go and preach the gospel, but here you are calling it hate and intolerance.
Jesus actually says , in order to come after him ,you must crucify yourself daily, that is pretty heavy...and you think what I am saying is harsh!!
Luke 9 :23



What are your idols than, we all have them!!




I'm not sure where your philosophy comes from ,but it's interesting to see that you obviously believe what you are saying!!!!..even though concerning God your views are ignorant and void of truth!

I am sorry if I was being harsh. It just feels like every time I try to explain my beliefs to someone of the strong christian faith, they right away think I'm going straight to hell. They don't know that for only "God" knows that. Going to "Hell" would be okay with me if that is what "God" wishes of me. I will accept it. I feel that the journey to finding and understanding "God" is a highly personal one. We all have our own ways of getting there. I don't believe that any one way is the wrong or right way, it is just different. I even have an understanding by my own right of what the Bible has to say. I believe that "God" gave me this understanding. The things that I say I do not say out of love for lies, I say them because they come from deep within me. "God" wanted me to "remember" those things, or they would not be there in the first place. I did not "fabricate" what my own heart tells me. "God" is telling me this. I can not put a label on "God" as being either man or woman or a specific deity that lives elsewhere. If "God" is omnipotent, then "God" is ALL those things. The good and the evil, and everything else that exists naturally as part of "God". The only thing "God" is not, is a lie. The human mind when imbalanced, creates lies, "God" does not. Humans tend to stray to either side of good or evil, but in doing so they lose that balance. "God" is the perfect balance in creative "animate" motion. As Zenzero explained, we once had that perfect balance and Oneness with nature and all things. The more we learned about good and evil, the more we learned to "pick our apples". We cannot find that Oneness with something that is naturally ALL things by "picking" sides. But that is just my perspective. I do appreciate yours as well, they ALL serve a purpose. I would not want to go to Heaven anyways, seems like there would be too many "fluffy bunnies" and not enough snakes. It would seem kind of boring to me. I like snakes too, they are also one of "God" creations. I would rather be ONE with ALL of "God's" creations, not separated. If "God" gave me the choice when I died, I would rather just be a mortal again and live on this "sinful" earth even with all the "pain and punishment" that goes along with it. But that's just my opinion. "God" would not gain anything out of sending me to hell, because I also love the "dark side". It allows me to see the "light".

You ALL have my love and respect.

 

[Falvlun]

Question 2: The Christian God has givin all humans of this earth the power of free will. Meaning there is no predetermined destiny for any of us. You choose your own path.

Debatable. Calvinists believe that all things are predetermined, even down to those who choose to accept Christ and those who choose to denounce Him. I don't remember how they meshed this core principle with the concept of free-will... this question might actually make a nice thread all on its own.

Having said this, the Christian God is also the Alpha and the Omega. The Christian God knows all that ever was and all that ever will be. These are 2 prominent phrases that are within the bible(Not verbatim). They are two of many fundamentals that christians understand. Now on to the question at hand. Why would an all knowing Christian God create me, all while knowing what my actions are(All knowing God) damn me to hell or send me to heaven. Don't make it complex it's a simple question. Technically there is no free will if God does not know all(Future and Past). Do not say that God knows all but, gives us free will. It is contradictory.

This is one of the Great Problems, and really does deserve a thread all on its own. With that in mind, I'm just going to give a brief possible answer here.

Omnisicience, omnipotence, and omnipresent-ness implies an infinite Being. To have all of these characteristics wrapped up in a single package, you would essentially have to be inifinite. An infinite being has an infinite mind. An infinite mind would be able to hold an infinite amount of scenarios, an infinite amount of possiblities, etc. Thus, God can be said to know what you will choose to eat for breakfast because he knows all of the possible scenarios. How 'bout that?

 

[Runewolf1973]

If Christians believe what was written in the Bible because they believe that "God" came to the apostles and inspired them to write about it, then how do YOU KNOW that "God" did not come to ME and inspire me to write the things I do? Perhaps "God" feels it is time for some NEW revelations.

 

[Religiousless]

"Omnisicience, omnipotence, and omnipresent-ness implies an infinite Being. To have all of these characteristics wrapped up in a single package, you would essentially have to be inifinite. An infinite being has an infinite mind. An infinite mind would be able to hold an infinite amount of scenarios, an infinite amount of possiblities, etc. Thus, God can be said to know what you will choose to eat for breakfast because he knows all of the possible scenarios. How 'bout that?"

Not exactly the answer that I am looking for. For I may also be stubborn to the fact that I think there is no answer that I would accept, simply b/c it is such an argumentative question. Yes, I like your example. Sure he may know the endless possiblilities of choices that I may have for breakfast however, Just having the knowledge of and Knowing exactly are totally different. I'm speaking of precognition on God's behalf. Infinite Precognition if you will. Christianity speaks that I cannot hide anything from him. He knows my every move and will be there for me.

I will also take your advice and post this as a thread for others to post on. And yes Zenzero, evidently you can just WAKE UP one day and renounce your faith. It is a question that I struggle with desperately.

 

[Falvlun]

If Christians believe what was written in the Bible because they believe that "God" came to the apostles and inspired them to write about it, then how do YOU KNOW that "God" did not come to ME and inspire me to write the things I do? Perhaps "God" feels it is time for some NEW revelations.

Runewolf, you must admit that there is at least some continuity between the writings of various authors in the Bible; the same general ideas and themes are transmitted and portrayed. Your beliefs, from the small sample I have seen, are nearly diametrically opposite to those espoused in the Bible. Assuming that God exists, it is unlikely he would produce a new revelation that basically contradicts every other revelation about Him. That would make God a liar; and even if you are ok with calling God a liar, you would then have to admit he might be lying about this new revelation given to you.

As for the concept of new revelations, there are a couple of sects that claim exactly that. The one that comes most readily to mind is that of the Mormons. They believe that an angel named Moroni gave new revelations to Joseph Smith.

Additionally, Muslims accept many of the world's greatest religious figures-- even Jesus-- as prophets. They simply believe that Muhammed was the last prophet, receiving the last revelation (I think.... don't quote me on that one...)

 

[Runewolf1973]

Runewolf, you must admit that there is at least some continuity between the writings of various authors in the Bible; the same general ideas and themes are transmitted and portrayed. Your beliefs, from the small sample I have seen, are nearly diametrically opposite to those espoused in the Bible. Assuming that God exists, it is unlikely he would produce a new revelation that basically contradicts every other revelation about Him. That would make God a liar; and even if you are ok with calling God a liar, you would then have to admit he might be lying about this new revelation given to you.

As for the concept of new revelations, there are a couple of sects that claim exactly that. The one that comes most readily to mind is that of the Mormons. They believe that an angel named Moroni gave new revelations to Joseph Smith.

Additionally, Muslims accept many of the world's greatest religious figures-- even Jesus-- as prophets. They simply believe that Muhammed was the last prophet, receiving the last revelation (I think.... don't quote me on that one...)

I understand what it is you are saying, there are some continuities in the writings of the Bible. But the Bible was written a long time ago when humans did not know anything of energy or science like we do now. The authors needed to be able to relate to all those who might read it. The more "impressive" it sounded, the more they were likely to believe it. Many did not want to accept even what Jesus was trying to teach. Which brings me to the question, why did "God" not inspire a different bible with the same teachings for other cultures that were abiding on different continents at the time? Why did "God" separate all of us from each other? Why did "God" not send Jesus to those other continents if "God" was all wise?

No, I am not calling "God" a liar. But if "God" is capable of anything, don't you think "God's" knowledge should inspire all creatures and all kinds? Perhaps we are all prophets or messengers of "God" in our own right. We all share part of that knowledge. I believe that even trees are messengers of "God". Everything that exists has some sort of message to offer. I am no different. Trees speak.

If you are open to it, you will find some continuity in ALL things and ALL beliefs. After all, "God" is part of ALL those things is that no so?


"God" is full of contradictions. "God" is the knowledge of both good and evil. "God" and "Satan" are ONE.

If "God" is all things that exist, all knowing, and all powerful, then "God" will make "Himself" known to us regardless of what we read or believe. I let "God" come to me on "His" own terms, and "God" made "Himself" known to me. I can see "God" as plain as day. Just open your eyes and your heart, and you will see "God" too. "God" is all around us.

Perhaps the devise of religion itself is mankind's greatest lie. All of "God's" other creatures and creations neither have nor need religion. Was there religion in the Garden of Eden? Religion did not come into being until after "God" kicked Adam and Eve out. We separated ourselves from "God" and in our desire to be with "God" again, we created religion. The very moment Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, they learned how to "pray" for "God" to let them back in. Man created it out of fear and unknowing. It is not truly part of what "God" is. Perhaps through religion, "God" tries to communicate with us, but in that there is also the lies we ourselves created and mixed in "soup". This is why I am not religious, I just live for "God". The ALL in ALL things. The Source.

When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, they knew of both good and evil. But in knowing that, they understood they were different from the rest of the animal kingdom. They realized they were naked. This thought (Mind/Satan) alone separated them from the rest of "God's" kingdom. In a sense, "God" did not kick Adam and Eve out, they did it to themselves. This is why even animals experience death and the pains of life. Even trees die eventually. They are really no different than us. We only "think" differently. What would become of a hairless cat if it one day realized it too was naked?

The reason "God" said in the bible if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, they would surely die, is because then they would know what death was. Animals die, but they don't really know what death is do they? They don't worry about it. They only care that they exist. They don't have that knowledge of mortality. They only know life. Animals ate only from the Tree of Life. Humans ate from the wrong tree. Since humans ate from the Tree of Knowledge, "God" cut them off from the Tree of Life. This is because if humans knew both good and evil and were not able to control it, but also realized they were part "God", they would destroy the world and all things in it. At least now even though there is some evil in the world, there is still some good.

I refer to the Bible for metaphorical sake. It makes some sense of things. It is just a matter of how we perceive it.

So, if all the other biblical accounts were written by the apostles, who wrote the book of Genesis?

 

[Falvlun]

Which brings me to the question, why did "God" not inspire a different bible with the same teachings for other cultures that were abiding on different continents at the time? Why did "God" separate all of us from each other? Why did "God" not send Jesus to those other continents if "God" was all wise?

That is a great question and is very closely tied to the reason I have rejected Christianity. Quite simply, it's not fair.

No, I am not calling "God" a liar. But if "God" is capable of anything, don't you think "God's" knowledge should inspire all creatures and all kinds?

Well, for all we know, God does inspire all (non-human) creatures. Maybe it's just us humans that are the stubborn ones.

Perhaps we are all prophets or messengers of "God" in our own right. We all share part of that knowledge. I believe that even trees are messengers of "God". Everything that exists has some sort of message to offer. I am no different. Trees speak.

This is an interesting-- and rather beautiful-- idea. If God exists, I could certainly see how he would speak through nature.

I wonder, though, what smallpox is trying to tell us?

Also, you do seem to have a thing for trees. I like them too.

If you are open to it, you will find some continuity in ALL things and ALL beliefs. After all, "God" is part of ALL those things is that no so?


"God" is full of contradictions. "God" is the knowledge of both good and evil. "God" and "Satan" are ONE.

This is the logical extension of your previous assertion-- that all things are prophets/messengers of God. However, this one is much harder for me to swallow. My mind really rebels against contradictions.

If "God" is all things that exist, all knowing, and all powerful, then "God" will make "Himself" known to us regardless of what we read or believe. I let "God" come to me on "His" own terms, and "God" made "Himself" known to me. I can see "God" as plain as day. Just open your eyes and your heart, and you will see "God" too. "God" is all around us.

But what if I don't see God? Isn't that a belief too? How does the belief in the non-existence of God mesh with the belief of the existence of God? Can even God both exist and not exist?

Perhaps the devise of religion itself is mankind's greatest lie. All of "God's" other creatures and creations neither have nor need religion. Was there religion in the Garden of Eden? Religion did not come into being until after "God" kicked Adam and Eve out. We separated ourselves from "God" and in our desire to be with "God" again, we created religion. The very moment Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, they learned how to "pray" for "God" to let them back in. Man created it out of fear and unknowing. It is not truly part of what "God" is. Perhaps through religion, "God" tries to communicate with us, but in that there is also the lies we ourselves created and mixed in "soup". This is why I am not religious, I just live for "God". The ALL in ALL things. The Source.

Another interesting thought process here, Runewolf. I am extremely disenchanted with religion. I'm fed up with the intolerance and hatred and fear it sows. I do see religion as a created devise of man, regardless of whether God exists or not.

I do have trouble understanding how one lives for God without being religious. If religion is the practice of worship of a set of beliefs and/or deity(s), then wouldn't any step you take to honor your beliefs essentially be religious?

So, if all the other biblical accounts were written by the apostles, who wrote the book of Genesis?

Tradition has it that Moses wrote the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible).

 

[logician]

How can you a mere mortal expect to understand the infinite mind of God?
Can you make a sun? How about speaking worlds into existence? Can you raise the dead?
Of course not.
God is perfect and does what he does according to his own mind.
You cannot understand him.
Can't you ask a question just one instead of all the accusations against God?
Justification and righteousness come from the same Greek word. God is justified in all he does simply because he is God.
Can you tell me if those people he utterly destroyed were not vampires? Give me proof they were not.
With all we see in the world and its history, how do you know they were not vile and evil creatures who had to be destroyed for the good of mankind?
Also realize that nature which God created also destroys.
God is love and I think it is quite obvious.

This post does not make sense, on one hand, you say that one cannot understand god, on the other hand, you say god is love, a total contradiction.

 

[Runewolf1973]

That is a great question and is very closely tied to the reason I have rejected Christianity. Quite simply, it's not fair.


Well, for all we know, God does inspire all (non-human) creatures. Maybe it's just us humans that are the stubborn ones.


This is an interesting-- and rather beautiful-- idea. If God exists, I could certainly see how he would speak through nature.

I wonder, though, what smallpox is trying to tell us?

Also, you do seem to have a thing for trees. I like them too.



This is the logical extension of your previous assertion-- that all things are prophets/messengers of God. However, this one is much harder for me to swallow. My mind really rebels against contradictions.



But what if I don't see God? Isn't that a belief too? How does the belief in the non-existence of God mesh with the belief of the existence of God? Can even God both exist and not exist?


Another interesting thought process here, Runewolf. I am extremely disenchanted with religion. I'm fed up with the intolerance and hatred and fear it sows. I do see religion as a created devise of man, regardless of whether God exists or not.

I do have trouble understanding how one lives for God without being religious. If religion is the practice of worship of a set of beliefs and/or deity(s), then wouldn't any step you take to honor your beliefs essentially be religious?


Tradition has it that Moses wrote the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible).

Anyone can see "God". You have senses do you not? Even the blind can "see" "God". They can feel the earth and touch the trees and the animals. They are touching what "God" is. All those things. Even as there are good and bad things in world, as there are things like smallpox and disease, there are also medicines. It is just part of life. We get sick and we die. Animals also get sick and they die, but they do not think of it as something evil that is happening to them do they? They merely accept it.

"God" must be the balance. "God" must know both good and evil. Perhaps those things are not really evil, they are just the opposite of good. It is simply what MUST be to have that balance. What would happen if all things, humans and creatures never died or never got sick. We would not be able to all fit on this planet if that were so. There must be a balancing factor. Humans just like to call it "evil". When the human mind loses that balance, we create our own evil and lies. Even in death and dying, there becomes the possibility to create new life. This is why both sides must work together as ONE in order to maintain that balance. What would happen if the whole world was filled with lions? They would run out of animals to eat and eventually die. What would happen if the whole world was filled with gazelles? They would eat all the grasses of the plains and eventually starve themselves to death. Think of it like this. Is that what "God" planned? For ALL creations to die? There is a reason for both the good things and the bad things that happen. Sometimes we have only ourselves to blame for the "evil" that happens.

If we were to be the pure creations as we were originally intended, to us, there would be no such thing as "God", or "Satan", good or evil, or even death, because we would not know of those things. We would only know Life. We were never meant to know.

Whether you believe that you see "God" or not is just a matter of how you perceive things. I believe that "God" is ALL things, therefore I SEE "God". You don't have to believe in "God", just know that YOU exist and you are ONE with ALL things that exist. Even animals accept this. We are all connected even though we are all different.

Forgive me if I use the term "God" so much. I just find it hard to keep saying "The Source", or the "All in ALL". I don't believe that "God" is religion specific, but that "God" is ALL things. That is why in looking into different religions, I only discovered part of that ALL in each one. Put all the pieces of the puzzle together and you too will see what I mean. You too will "Remember". Once we as humans "remember" this, you will find there is no longer room for intolerance or hatred, only love and life. We will no longer "fear" death, but just merely accept it as another part of life.

 

[roli]

Roli, though I didn't find anything particularly hateful in that previous post, your views are couched in such a way to repel people from them, rather than encouraging them to investigate more closely.

I am sorry you feel that way but ,I follow Christ and his teachings and although this is not the forum to preach, which by the way is always a "taboo "word in today's society,more so here, it simply means, proclaim the gospel !
In saying that, there are many ways to convey that message !
Your application of God's love here is inaccurate.

I am not sure how you perceive Jesus's approach when he spoke to the mutitudes, but it was'nt always the,silent, non offensive ,love thing you got going here.
His definition of love in his appraoch however offensive, was ssuch puer love that man can't even comprehend.
If I saw your imminent fate, which was tradgic and compelled you earnestly to turn from your ways and even got aggresive and in your face, your impression would be that of offense.
Was your view of what I thought to be love and compassion different then mine.
Absolutely ,because of your ignorance you saw my motive as threatening.
So did those who Jesus preached to, Jesus went on to say " they hate the light and won't come to the light for fear their deds will be exposed"
That is the real reason why people are offended, they don't want the truth to come out, their not willing to take responsibility for their sin.

The gospel was and always will be offensive,at least to most of his listening audience then and now and in case you are'nt aware of this, they did kill him and tried many other times to take his life, ask yourself ,why, was he a threat physically to them or others ,no ,only to their pride and intellect and to their sinful ways when he exposed them. They hated him, but see what Jesus' love produced in them ,hate, murder, rage, rebellion, lies, tricks, etc.
Jesus was not politically correct and user freindly then or now.
They also killed all but one of the diciples for preaching as he did.

If you choose to use the "Jesus is love approach, which is so taken out of context,feel free, but please, for his sake,include the vehement pleas he used with the people as well, such as," repent or perish, repent for the kingdom is at hand" which was his very first message to the people.
Try the love approach he uses in John "whoever does not have the son is condenmed. Paul says"snatching them from the flames" compel them to come in.
Again this is not to say that love was'nt embodied in his message, it was only offensive and they justified themselves by making false accusations towards him.

Though I do believe your motives to be pure, your fire-and-brimstone methodology is less than appealing to most people. Perhaps try tempering the righteous wrath of God with a little more of his love and compassion.
"For God so loved the world...."

Jesus preached extensively about hell, punishment, and eternal suffering but also warned his hearers...but as the story goes ,many refused to listen.
Like so many people ,the scriptures are taken out of context, please finish the verse you started above, John 3:16.....let me do it for you....John 3;18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
How about John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1Jo 5:12He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Jesus would be stoned in today's civil society for calling people children of the devil Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
This is a must read : Sheep vs goats : Mat 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

You mock his views. That's not the best way to win people over.
Additionally, do realize that though you believe in Christian precepts with all your heart, mind, and soul, it is not fair to think that that truth is so blindingly obvious to everyone else. If it were, there would not exist forums like this, and various religions would never have gained followers.

I am not mocking anyone's views, if one chooses to believe or not , that's their right.
I for one am quite aware that poeple are blinded to the truth of Christ and the relaities of the next life and that of judgment of this one.
And I hope this forum helps to inform them of the truth, but it is not me who wins them over and am only called to be a faithful witness, and obviously with discretion in this forum.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Did you know that animals are the purest creatures of "God"? They accept "God" and their place in life. They do not need to question whether "God" exists or not, they merely understand that they are part of something much bigger. Part of that ALL in ALL. Simply existing. In a sense, animals can "see" and "sense" that which is "God" all around them. They accept their place in life and death. We as humans could learn the most from animals. They teach us how to become closer to "God".

If "God" only kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, then why are there so many animals that live amongst us in this non-Eden world? They experience the same fate of pain and birth and death. I don't recall "God" kicking all the animals out of the Garden of Eden. For all the animals that did not get onto Noah's Ark, were they all "evil sinners" too deserving to perish by "God's" wrath? Animals did not eat from the Tree of Knowledge did they? I would like some REAL answers, not something merely quoted out of the bible. But then you will just tell me something to the regards "If you do not come to God and Jesus you will never find the answers. He is the Answer." That is NOT an answer. That is merely avoiding the question. I just want a logical explanation. I already KNOW the answers to these questions, but I would like to hear yours.

 

[roli]

Did you know that animals are the purest creatures of "God"? They accept "God" and their place in life. They do not need to question whether "God" exists or not, they merely understand that they are part of something much bigger. Part of that ALL in ALL. Simply existing. In a sense, animals can "see" and "sense" that which is "God" all around them. They accept their place in life and death. We as humans could learn the most from animals. They teach us how to become closer to "God".

Your accurate in the fact that animals and all creation know their creator.
It's the Holy Spirit that draws us closer to God, but in saying that , there are many things God uses to draw us to himself.
But rememeber it was the breath of God , or the spirit that God brethed into man and at that point they became a living soul, they became one with God.
Something I might add is missing from animals.
But feel free to compare the relationship God has with man as that he has with animals, I don't think so!!

If "God" only kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, then why are there so many animals that live amongst us in this non-Eden world? They experience the same fate of pain and birth and death. I don't recall "God" kicking all the animals out of the Garden of Eden. For all the animals that did not get onto Noah's Ark, were they all evil sinners too deserving to perish by "God's" wrath? Animals did not eat from the Tree of Knowledge did they

All creation was cursed because of sin Rom 8;23.. claims they groan.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Your accurate in the fact that animals and all creation know their creator.
It's the Holy Spirit that draws us closer to God, but in saying that , there are many things God uses to draw us to himself.
But rememeber it was the breath of God , or the spirit that God brethed into man and at that point they became a living soul, they became one with God.
Something I might add is missing from animals.
But feel free to compare the relationship God has with man as that he has with animals, I don't think so!!


All creation was cursed because of sin Rom 8;23.. claims they groan.

I believe that ALL things including animals and trees have SPIRIT. If "God" is ALL powerful and omnipotent, then does not this Spirit of "God" reside in ALL those things? It even says in the bible that "God" gave "life" to every "living" creature does it not? If the spirit of "God" does not reside in ALL things, then you're view of "God" is not truly omnipotent or all-powerful. Why should I bow down to anything less than ALL "God". Once again, I find that you are quoting phrases from the bible without really understanding WHY the bible says those things.

The reason why ALL creation was "cursed by sin", was not because "God" cursed ALL creation, but rather due to Mankind's "curse" humans would affect all creations and all life on this planet. Humans create sin and destruction. They destroy this earth, and along with it ALL creations. To give birth and life and feel pain is not a punishment or a curse. It is just a fact of life. If it was that much punishment, no one would want to reproduce. It is all natural.

Here is my answer to those questions.....

If we as humans learned to be more like the animals, we would not know fear or hatred, or intolerance. We would not know good or evil, and we would be truly at One with "God". Living in harmony and perfect balance with ALL "God's" creations, knowing only life. If just for once humans learned to stop using their "minds" they would realize that they never actually left the Garden of Eden. It was there all along. "God" never "kicked" Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they just learned how to "think" too much. The second that they stole the "apple" and discovered that they could "think" for themselves, they realized they were naked, and also realized their fate. They realized their mortality. "God" never sentenced or banished them, their own "minds" separated them from "God". If we are able to reach that "stillness of mind" that Zenzero talks about, we would soon realize that we are still in that Garden of Eden, and "God" never actually left us.

 

[roli]

I believe that ALL things including animals and trees have SPIRIT. If "God" is ALL powerful and omnipotent, then does not this Spirit of "God" reside in ALL those things?

In Gen 2:7 ,there is a special emphasis on breathing into man the breath of God and man becoming a living soul, not animals.
There is a spirit in man and a spirit of God that I believe he placed inside man in the beginning..in Gen 2:7

There is man's spirit
Pro 20:27The spirit of man [is] the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Pro 18:14The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?
Than there is God's spirit
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

It even says in the bible that "God" gave "life" to every "living" creature does it not? If the spirit of "God" does not reside in ALL things, then you're view of "God" is not truly omnipotent or all-powerful. Why should I bow down to anything less than ALL "God". Once again, I find that you are quoting phrases from the bible without really understanding WHY the bible says those things.

The reason why ALL creation was "cursed by sin", was not because "God" cursed ALL creation, but rather due to Mankind's "curse" humans would affect all creations and all life on this planet. Humans create sin and destruction. They destroy this earth, and along with it ALL creations. To give birth and life and feel pain is not a punishment or a curse. It is just a fact of life. If it was that much punishment, no one would want to reproduce. It is all natural.

Here is my answer to those questions.....

If we as humans learned to be more like the animals, we would not know fear or hatred, or intolerance. We would not know good or evil, and we would be truly at One with "God". Living in harmony and perfect balance with ALL "God's" creations, knowing only life. If just for once humans learned to stop using their "minds" they would realize that they never actually left the Garden of Eden. It was there all along. "God" never "kicked" Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they just learned how to "think" too much. The second that they stole the "apple" and discovered that they could "think" for themselves, they realized they were naked, and also realized their fate. They realized their mortality. "God" never sentenced or banished them, their own "minds" separated them from "God". If we are able to reach that "stillness of mind" that Zenzero talks about, we would soon realize that we are still in that Garden of Eden, and "God" never actually left us.

I'll finish later ,off to work

 

[Linda777]

This post does not make sense, on one hand, you say that one cannot understand god, on the other hand, you say god is love, a total contradiction.

Why do you say this? God is love and he is also a God of judgment. He is this. He is love and we cannot understand why he does many things he does. There is no contradiction.

 

[Linda777]

Runewolf said..

I believe that ALL things including animals and trees have SPIRIT. If "God" is ALL powerful and omnipotent, then does not this Spirit of "God" reside in ALL those things? It even says in the bible that "God" gave "life" to every "living" creature does it not? If the spirit of "God" does not reside in ALL things, then you're view of "God" is not truly omnipotent or all-powerful. Why should I bow down to anything less than ALL "God". Once again, I find that you are quoting phrases from the bible without really understanding WHY the bible says those things.

Yes they do have spirit or they could not exist. I think God made the animals on the same day he made man. I think.

The reason why ALL creation was "cursed by sin", was not because "God" cursed ALL creation, but rather due to Mankind's "curse" humans would affect all creations and all life on this planet. Humans create sin and destruction. They destroy this earth, and along with it ALL creations. To give birth and life and feel pain is not a punishment or a curse. It is just a fact of life. If it was that much punishment, no one would want to reproduce. It is all natural.

What was disobedience in Eden is natural. It was in Adam and Eve to disobey or they would not have disobeyed. But note that it didn't happen until the serpent came and suggested all the things he did. From then on it is natural for us to do wrong since it was natural for Adam and Eve to do it, it was simply in their nature to do wrong and they did. It is all about disobedience to a direct command from God.

Here is my answer to those questions.....

If we as humans learned to be more like the animals, we would not know fear or hatred, or intolerance. We would not know good or evil, and we would be truly at One with "God". Living in harmony and perfect balance with ALL "God's" creations, knowing only life. If just for once humans learned to stop using their "minds" they would realize that they never actually left the Garden of Eden. It was there all along. "God" never "kicked" Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they just learned how to "think" too much. The second that they stole the "apple" and discovered that they could "think" for themselves, they realized they were naked, and also realized their fate. They realized their mortality. "God" never sentenced or banished them, their own "minds" separated them from "God". If we are able to reach that "stillness of mind" that Zenzero talks about, we would soon realize that we are still in that Garden of Eden, and "God" never actually left us.

I agree that God never left us. We leave him every time we hurt another person and in so doing we hurt ourselves. It is better I think to simply believe the simple story of Adam and Eve and the snake. It makes for an easier mind. They disobeyed and got in trouble. But Christ came so we could overcome what comes to us to tempt us to do wrong.

 

[Linda777]

If a group of 20 people believe strongly that something is true, but another group of 20 people believe strongly that the same thing is false, what is it then? True or false? When 30 people believe that something is true, but 10 people believe that it is false, others would tend to perceive it is true as well. If ALL people together believed that something was true, we ALL perceive it to be nothing but Truth. But it is all just the way we perceive things. Do we really KNOW anything? We certainly don't know everything. Even scientists can't calculate ALL the truths in ALL things. Perhaps as humans we can never possibly know such thing as ALL truth. If energy itself is constantly in a state of change, how can we calculate everything it can possibly do? How can anyone fully understand ALL the truth behind what energy can or can not do besides ALL energy itself?
Just another way of looking at things.....

That is why we have a canon, which is the Bible. The Bible can be proven to be true simply by its message looked at alongside history's events.
You know I found something interesting in the book of John chapter 3 where Jesus is talking to Nicodemus. He told him that he the Son of Man was in heaven and yet he the Son of Man was on earth when he said that he was in heaven. This clearly tells me that the power (energy) that is God was at the same time (matter) which was Jesus the man on earth. They are one and the same.
Einstein discovered this and it coincides with the Bible's teachings about Jesus Christ.
I have studied I think all "religions" and have found that the Bible is original and the other beliefs teachings are always without fail found first in the Bible. I kid you not.
No "religion" out there has anything in it that is not in the Bible.
Tim LaHaye said a great truth; that there are only two lines of thoughts which permeate all literature; God's thoughts and man's thoughts.
And God who is Christ said that he is the truth or simply put that whatever he says goes.

 

[Linda777]

These are just questions, please don't take this personally....

It is my understanding that christians view "God" as omnipotent. If this is true and "God" is omnipotent, it would mean that "God" would have to be everywhere and exist in all things at all times. Is that right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

My question then is.....If "God" is omnipotent and exists in all things, why then do christians accept only part of that ALL? Should they not accept ALL of what "God" is, including other beliefs, scientific facts, and philosphies. If "God" is truly omnipotent, then "God" should be ALL those things, the good and the bad, the ugly, and everything else in between. If "God" is not all those things, then "God" is not omnipotent. If a person believes in only one aspect of "God" then it is not ALL of what "God" is, only part. I believe that "God" has many faces and many expressions. It would seem christians only wish to accept part of the ALL of what "God" is.

If "God" were all-powerful, then why did He have to send "Jesus" to do things for Him? Why could "God" not just do it Himself?

Why did "God" need to destroy so many people and creatures in biblical floods and catastrophies? The Devil was not nearly so destructive and merciless. If "God" were all-powerful, why did He not teach these people the ways of "good" instead of just letting them carry on doing bad things? Why did "God" not just put a big electric fence or force field around the tree of knowledge instead of just "teasing" Adam and Eve with it. It's like taunting a dog by holding a big juicy bone right over it's nose, then when the dog naturally grabs the bone, condemning it and the rest of it's entire species to life long pain and punishment. Why do animals still experience the pain of giving birth? What tree did they steal from to deserve the same death and punishment humans get?

And so it all boils down to the question....Why would I want to believe in a god that creates life then destroys it for such petty, selfish reasons? And all this to those He claims to "love" so much? I would almost rather worship the Devil. At least Satan seems more forgiving.

None of this makes any sense to me. But I'm sure "God" has His reasons for all of this. I just can't think of any good ones.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful of other faiths, in fact, I believe that ALL things and beliefs have some truth to offer, even christianity. There is just too many questions that are left unanswered that force me to be a non-believer in some things. I honestly don't believe in "God" and if there were one, I don't think He would be nearly all that bad.

May I ask you a question? Say you worked in a convenience store and a man came in with his hand in his pocket telling you he had a gun. You cannot see the gun and he says to give him all the money or he will kill you. What would you do? Of course this is not Pascal's wager but just wondering how you would think your way out of this situation.
Jesus doesn't scare or threaten us to come to him but for many they see a man who says he has a gun so do what he says or else.
Thoughts?

 

[Runewolf1973]

These are just questions, please don't take this personally....

May I ask you a question? Say you worked in a convenience store and a man came in with his hand in his pocket telling you he had a gun. You cannot see the gun and he says to give him all the money or he will kill you. What would you do? Of course this is not Pascal's wager but just wondering how you would think your way out of this situation.
Jesus doesn't scare or threaten us to come to him but for many they see a man who says he has a gun so do what he says or else.
Thoughts?

Thank you for the question. It is interesting. Personally I would tell him to just "Shoot me", "Take the money and just shoot me if that is what you wish to do." I can give up my life and my money, but I can never surrender my soul to someone who points a gun at my face. Money is different than love. You can't steal love out of someone. Besides, I love ALL things. Why would "God" try to steal something which "God" already has? I DO love Jesus and you're Christian God, but I also love that part of "God" which is in ALL things and ALL beliefs. God has MANY faces. "God" is like a tree with many branches which reach out in all different directions. You choose to worship only one of those branches, I choose to accept ALL of them. "God" is the WHOLE tree including the roots which reach into the darkness below. But even from that darkness is where the nourishment is gained. We too must look into the darkness and find out what good is to be gained from knowing it. It is in the darkness where we are able to see the light. So long as you are afraid to seek the truth in ALL things, you will never understand "God" for ALL of what "God" is. You will always be blinded by that fear. ALL you must do is to open your heart to ALL of what "God" is and YOU will see "God" to. Sometimes we all need to "step out on a limb". That is faith.