Merciful God?? I think not.

[Kathryn]

I have come to the conclusion that you and your fellow Christians have no REAL answers to any of the questions I presented in this thread.

May I suggest that you just don't LIKE the answers. They're real answers - you just don't agree with them.

All I've heard so far is "The Bible this, and the Bible that."

You haven't heard that from ME. In fact, I don't believe I've even mentioned the Bible in my posts.

You can't even prove that your "version" of the Bible is the one true version of it. There are too many "versions" if you ask me.

Oops, I don't think anyone asked you. This is definitely a topic for another thread. If you would like to get that started, I'd be happy to join on in.

Are they all worshiping different gods? Which one is right, which one is wrong? How can you prove it? They all sound much the same.

Wow, have you ever really READ all these "different" versions of the Bible? Because I have read at least 8 different versions and they all sounded remarkably the same to me, and very consistent. But...I digress - that's a topic for another thread, as I said before. And a good one too.

You have only faith, which is fine, but it is not enough for me though.

Oh, I have so much more than that. For starters, I have (through no merit of my own), GRACE. That blows my mind!

Besides, I don't need faith to know that my "God" already exists.


You have faith too - it's just not faith in God, it's faith in your own intellect. That's ok to some extent - if you want to call it self confidence. But true self confidence has a flip side that acknowledges the limits of our own intellect.

I can even PROVE that it exists. I SEE my "God" everytime I open my eyes. It is everything that exists. The ALL in ALL. Simple as that. You have your ways, I have mine.

So your "God" is everything? Your "God" is that pile of children's severed limbs in an African nation? Your "God" is the corrupt county sheriff taking drug money on the side? Your "God" is pollution?

Aside from all of this, I DO respect the fact that you can have such strong faith in something. It is an admirable quality.

Not sure I believe this statement since you just wrote that faith isn't enough for you. Sounds a bit condescending to me.

At one time I was blinded myself and could not see the truth. I relied on faith to get me by.

You may have been blinded by something - I don't know enough about your personal history to know what you mean by this. But this sentence structure implies a lot of untruth. You're assuming I'm blinded - that I'm not as enlightened as you are. You're assuming that I'm clinging to faith because I don't know enough to move on to a superior form of belief.

Seems that you're assuming that if I opened my mind, challenged what I believe in, etc. that I would change my religious beliefs. You're assuming that I haven't done that.

Been there, done that. I'm 46 years old and believe me, I've had quite a walk spiritually. I've studied, cried, shook my fist in God's face, ignored Him, explored other faiths, argued, gone years without reading the bible, read every other sort of book (some with merit, others pure crap), dissected my faith,etc.

I am not a Christian by default.

It was then that "God" opened my eyes, and now I SEE "God" for real.

If you have to put the word "God" in quotation marks, I doubt that we're talking about the same thing.

For me, faith and religion are no longer necessary.

Necessary to exist in this world? I can agree with that. I see evidence all around me that people disgard faith and religion and just keep on living their lives. That doesn't make that decision the best one.

I don't have to necessarily "love" every bad thing that happens in life to merely accept ALL of what "God" is. Oddly enough, even Satanism has taught me something of value. It has taught me that it is acceptable and even natural for humans to "hate" certain things.

You had to find that tenet in Satanism? As a Christian, it's good and right for me to hate some things too.

I hate the fact that Christianity turns everything and everyone that does not follow their faith into "evil doers" and "Satan worshipers".

Hey, we're all evil doers. And personally, I don't know any Satan worshippers. If I did, I would probably steer pretty clear of them.

Evil is not natural. It is something which is warped and manipulated. That imbalance is not part of what "God" really is.

As you've explained it so far, God is the BALANCE of good and evil. These statements seem inconsistent. In your belief system, where does evil come from? What is the source of evil? Who decides what is evil and what isn't? Where does your standard come from?

Sorry if this does not "fit" your belief.

Why are you apologising? This is a debate forum. Even if it wasn't, I don't mind differing beliefs. Go on wid cho bad seff. Believe what you believe - I would fight right beside you to protect your right to disagree with me.

You probably think I am the Anti-Christ or something, but that's okay.

No, your beliefs and arguments are not unusual. The AntiChrist will be a one-of-a-kind dude. I'm not judging you personally, anyway - that's not my job. You may be a better person than me, for all I know.

I am not against Jesus really. He was a great person and spiritual teacher.

Really? When I read the Gospels, I think to myself, "Either Jesus is the Incarnate God, or he was totally delusional or a liar, and everyone who followed him was a fool."

I am against religious conformity.

If a belief system exemplifies good values, why not encourage people to embrace those beliefs and live by them?

I am anti-religious. I am however, very spiritual and I walk with many spirits that you might call "familiars". They are my guides and my teachers.

And you think Christianity sounds weird?

You are out there searching for some kind of "heavenly" peace and "salvation", whereas I have already found it. Oh well........

I search for deeper wisdom and understanding of God's nature and His ongoing plan for my life. I don't know what you're talking about when you say "some kind of heavenly peace." Life is hard, exciting, challenging, full of creativity, joy, sorrow, and yes, even some tedious stuff. I embrace all of it - I love life in all it's complexity and don't expect to ever find myself sitting on a cloud somewhere playing a harp.


I'm going to go worship some snakes now....I love serpents! Beautiful creatures of "God" they are.

Snakes are cool. Pet one for me.

 

[Lynx787]

There is such a thing as free will. I have heard many people say "What kind of God would allow (whatever to happen) ... ". For example, someone gets into their car drunk and kills someone. God, Satan , angels, demons, did not force this person to go to a bar, buy them whatever they wanted and then force them to drive. This person decided, out of their own free will, to get drunk and drive off on their own volition thus killing whomever. It is this ability to choose right from wrong that is our damnation. It causes us to choose what we know is wrong/evil over that which is right/good. This is what we acquired from the forbidden fruit of knowledge.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Snakes are cool. Pet one for me.

That was a pretty long post. I think you misunderstood much of what I was saying though. Some of what I was saying was meant as a generalization of the Christian religion, not directed to you personally. Sorry if it came out the wrong way. Perhaps you are different than other Christians I know.

Personally, I don't really care if you asked me anything or not. I have an opinion and I am going to state it. Much to your dislike.

How old you are is irrelevant, age means nothing to me. Age is not necessarily indicative of wisdom. I don't think that I am any wiser or more "enlightened" than you, I just understand things differently and my views seem more broad and ALL encompassing. I am open to many possibilities. I see some truth in the things which you say, but not much. Your answers (at least to me) seem to be influenced by Christianity and the Bible scriptures regardless of how you phrase them. My answers are influenced by The Voice of Reason. LOGOS. Logic.

You have strong faith and in saying that I don't mean to condescend you in any way. It is something I wish I could have more of. I wish I had more faith in myself.

You are right, I don't like the answers that I've been given so far. I don't like them because to me they don't make any logical sense.

As I already made clear, my "God", if you could call it that, is everything that exists, naturally. Severed children's limbs, murderers, corrupt individuals and the likes of that are manipulations of that energy. Those are man-made atrocities. Man creates his own "evil". It is not part of the natural force of what I consider "God". You should really try to "read" my posts. As I said before, the human "mind" is the source of evil. We need to learn to control it.

See how even Satanism can hold some truths? I believe that everything has some truth in it. We only need to "weed" it out.

What is wrong with being spiritual and non-religious? Christianity and religion in general just makes no sense to me, that's all. It's just my opinion.

I think it was Linda777 that stated that she believes snakes are evil incarnate. Perhaps I am getting you mixed up with her on some things. Sorry. I'm not entirely all with it today, got a nasty cold.

Like I said before in many posts, I don't believe in a God, I just accept the ALL in ALL things. God is just a name for a deity which I don't believe exists. When I refer to "God", I am referring to The Source, or the One Consciousness of ALL things. It is the "animate" spirit energy that pervades ALL of existence.

If you actually "read" my posts, you would see that I am not for or against any religion or belief. It is my understanding that ALL things and beliefs have something to offer. Just because I don't understand the logic in the Christian interpretation of things, does not mean that I don't think there is any truth there. I have discovered most all of that truth on my own. I never found "God" in books or scriptures or sermons. I found "God" in the nature that exists around me. It is not always pretty, but it is just part of that balance. Again, "evil" is not natural. It is a manipulation of energy, which does not serve the greater good of things. From what I can tell, the truth in things is just sometimes clouded with much ignorance. I am not saying that you are ignorant, but there are many Christians that are and were throughout history. Perhaps all they really ended up accomplishing by doing that is to give Christianity a bad reputation. I try to look beyond that. I have my own interpretations of things. That is all.

 

[crystalonyx]

This is what we acquired from the forbidden fruit of knowledge.

And when did this event happen in the history of evolution?

 

[Luminous]

When one cannot distinguish between two+ answers, they are likely both wrong or both right. Should you just choose one(you are running out of time) and forget the others? Do your chaces of being right go down the more undistinguishable answers are put forth? No, they go up; because those possibilities were always present and now you can choose one. in any case, you are many(almost infinitely, as there are an unlimited supply of possibilities) times more likely to be wrong than to be right if you choose one, but (depending upon the test) there is no chance to be wrong if you don't choose one.

 

[Kathryn]

That was a pretty long post.

Well, I just like to be clear on things.

I think you misunderstood much of what I was saying though. Some of what I was saying was meant as a generalization of the Christian religion, not directed to you personally. Sorry if it came out the wrong way. Perhaps you are different than other Christians I know.

Christianity has a very broad range and it's probably not prudent to try to lump all "Christians" into one personality or type. There are over 23,000 different denominations (not that that's a good thing, but it's a reality).

Personally, I don't really care if you asked me anything or not. I have an opinion and I am going to state it. Much to your dislike.

I don't dislike your opinions or your enthusiasm for expressing them. Express away! Nothing you have said to me threatens me in any way.

I don't care how old you are, age means nothing to me. Age is not necessarily indicative of wisdom.

If you reread my post, I think you will see that I didn't mention my age to imply any sort of higher level of wisdom. I just mentioned my age to flesh out your understanding of my perspective.

I don't think that I am any wiser or more "enlightened" than you, I just understand things differently.

I'm not sure you UNDERSTAND things differently. I would say you BELIEVE differently from me.

I see some truth in the things which you say, but not much.

Que sera, sera.

Your answers (at least to me) seem to be Biblical based regardless of how you phrase them.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.

You have strong faith and in saying that I don't mean to condescend you in any way. It is something I wish I could have more of. I wish I had more faith in myself.

Well, personally, I think our society has gone overboard on that self esteem thing anyway.

You are right, I don't like the answers that I've been given so far. I don't like them because to me they don't make any logical sense.

Hopefully over time we can understand each other better. If not, then at least we've enjoyed some stimulating conversation. So either way, it's not a total waste of time..yet.

You should really try to "read" my posts. As I said before, the human "mind" is the source of evil. We need to learn to control it.

I read, and reread your posts about evil. I think your position is inconsistant and that's what I was pointing out.

See how even Satanism can hold some truths? I believe that everything has some truth in it. We only need to "weed" it out.

I believe that Christianity is all true, but that there are truths OUTSIDE of Christianity. I respect truth from any source. But I am very demanding of intellectual consistency. You and I haven't even gotten into the subject of values, a value system, the source of value systems, and the judgment of what is good and what is evil. THAT should be an interesting conversation.

What is wrong with being spiritual and non-religious? Christianity and religion in general just makes no sense to me, that's all. It's just my opinion.

I never said one had to be "religious" in order to be spiritual. That's a common misunderstanding. Personally, I love the order that some forms of religion offer. But I need that - it helps me with self discipline. It helps for me to be accountable.

I think it was Linda777 that stated that she believes snakes are evil incarnate. Perhaps I am getting you mixed up with her on some things. Sorry. I'm not entirely all with it today, got a nasty cold.

I have a nasty cold too! Maybe I caught it from you. Quit breathing on me!

I hope you feel better soon. And I do mean that. Have a great weekend - take it easy and baby yourself.

 

[Runewolf1973]

That was a pretty long post.

Well, I just like to be clear on things.

I think you misunderstood much of what I was saying though. Some of what I was saying was meant as a generalization of the Christian religion, not directed to you personally. Sorry if it came out the wrong way. Perhaps you are different than other Christians I know.

Christianity has a very broad range and it's probably not prudent to try to lump all "Christians" into one personality or type. There are over 23,000 different denominations (not that that's a good thing, but it's a reality).

Personally, I don't really care if you asked me anything or not. I have an opinion and I am going to state it. Much to your dislike.

I don't dislike your opinions or your enthusiasm for expressing them. Express away! Nothing you have said to me threatens me in any way.

I don't care how old you are, age means nothing to me. Age is not necessarily indicative of wisdom.

If you reread my post, I think you will see that I didn't mention my age to imply any sort of higher level of wisdom. I just mentioned my age to flesh out your understanding of my perspective.

I don't think that I am any wiser or more "enlightened" than you, I just understand things differently.

I'm not sure you UNDERSTAND things differently. I would say you BELIEVE differently from me.

I see some truth in the things which you say, but not much.

Que sera, sera.

Your answers (at least to me) seem to be Biblical based regardless of how you phrase them.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.

You have strong faith and in saying that I don't mean to condescend you in any way. It is something I wish I could have more of. I wish I had more faith in myself.

Well, personally, I think our society has gone overboard on that self esteem thing anyway.

You are right, I don't like the answers that I've been given so far. I don't like them because to me they don't make any logical sense.

Hopefully over time we can understand each other better. If not, then at least we've enjoyed some stimulating conversation. So either way, it's not a total waste of time..yet.

You should really try to "read" my posts. As I said before, the human "mind" is the source of evil. We need to learn to control it.

I read, and reread your posts about evil. I think your position is inconsistant and that's what I was pointing out.

See how even Satanism can hold some truths? I believe that everything has some truth in it. We only need to "weed" it out.

I believe that Christianity is all true, but that there are truths OUTSIDE of Christianity. I respect truth from any source. But I am very demanding of intellectual consistency. You and I haven't even gotten into the subject of values, a value system, the source of value systems, and the judgment of what is good and what is evil. THAT should be an interesting conversation.

What is wrong with being spiritual and non-religious? Christianity and religion in general just makes no sense to me, that's all. It's just my opinion.

I never said one had to be "religious" in order to be spiritual. That's a common misunderstanding. Personally, I love the order that some forms of religion offer. But I need that - it helps me with self discipline. It helps for me to be accountable.

I think it was Linda777 that stated that she believes snakes are evil incarnate. Perhaps I am getting you mixed up with her on some things. Sorry. I'm not entirely all with it today, got a nasty cold.

I have a nasty cold too! Maybe I caught it from you. Quit breathing on me!

I hope you feel better soon. And I do mean that. Have a great weekend - take it easy and baby yourself.

I don't feel as though my position is as inconsistent as you think. Perhaps it is just the way you perceive things. I see many inconsistencies in Christianity and the teachings of the "Gospels". See that? You are so blinded that you seem to think Christianity is ALL truth. It is NOT. Do you also think that other beliefs, religions and views are somehow further from God because in your mind they are only part truth? It would seem so. If that is so, then that right there is typical Christian ignorance. I have had my fill of it. Your way is not necessarily all truth, neither is mine. You seem to think you are open-minded and intellectual, but really I don't think so.

I think every one of us has some degree of ignorance in us, even myself. Some more than others. I know myself to be both foolish and ignorant at times. But it is just a stupid human trait we all share. Nothing against you personally. I just prefer to think that for every "truth" that was conceived by man, there is lie. The notion of God was also conceived by man. Nature and the animals have no God, nor do they have any need for one. Neither do I.

"The foolish man doth think himself wise, the wise man knows himself to be the fool."

 

[Luminous]

#145

 

[Runewolf1973]

#145

I can see clearly the wisdom in your views. There is no right or wrong path. I would rather not choose any particular path than go down the wrong one. Wherever I am meant to be is where I will end up sooner or later. ALL things eventually return to the Source.

 

[Linda777]

I have come to the conclusion that you and your fellow Christians have no REAL answers to any of the questions I presented in this thread. All I've heard so far is "The Bible this, and the Bible that." You can't even prove that your "version" of the Bible is the one true version of it. There are too many "versions" if you ask me. Are they all worshiping different gods? Which one is right, which one is wrong? How can you prove it? They all sound much the same. They all proclaim to be true. This only serves to verify the truth in my own standpoint. ALL things are ONE. You have only faith, which is fine, but it is not enough for me though. Besides, I don't need faith to know that my "God" already exists. I can even PROVE that it exists. I SEE my "God" everytime I open my eyes. It is everything that exists. The ALL in ALL. Simple as that. You have your ways, I have mine.

Aside from all of this, I DO respect the fact that you can have such strong faith in something. It is an admirable quality.

At one time I was blinded myself and could not see the truth. I relied on faith to get me by. I began to question that faith when all I found was lies. It was then that "God" opened my eyes, and now I SEE "God" for real. For me, faith and religion are no longer necessary.

I don't have to necessarily "love" every bad thing that happens in life to merely accept ALL of what "God" is. Oddly enough, even Satanism has taught me something of value. It has taught me that it is acceptable and even natural for humans to "hate" certain things. I hate the "evil" that humans create. I hate the fact that Christianity turns everything and everyone that does not follow their faith into "evil doers" and "Satan worshipers". We are not. We are simply different. Even "God" has a shadow side. To accept the light, I must also accept the darkness. I must accept both the good and the bad that happens naturally in life and existence. If I choose not to, I don't have to succumb to the "evil doings" and "evil thoughts" which the human mind generates. I must, however, respect the fact that that "potential" for evil is always there and use caution and my better judgement. As humans, we are all "slaves to our minds". I must learn to control it rather than it controling me. Evil is not natural. It is something which is warped and manipulated. That imbalance is not part of what "God" really is. We created that imbalance. "God" is the balance of ALL things in perfect "animate" form. Sorry if this does not "fit" your belief. It is just the way I am. You probably think I am the Anti-Christ or something, but that's okay. I am not against Jesus really. He was a great person and spiritual teacher. I am against religious conformity. I am anti-religious. I am however, very spiritual and I walk with many spirits that you might call "familiars". They are my guides and my teachers. Everything that exists has a message to offer. Look to nature and you will find your salvation. Why are the animals still here living amongst us? I don't recall them getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden do you? That's right, we never actually got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. We've been here in the Garden all along, only our "minds" separate us from "God". Perhaps it is all just a matter of how you percieve things. You are out there searching for some kind of "heavenly" peace and "salvation", whereas I have already found it. Oh well........

I'm going to go worship some snakes now....I love serpents! Beautiful creatures of "God" they are.

I can prove the Bible is true. But not in a few posts on a message board. It is a little more involved than that. But I can most certainly prove beyond any shadow of a doubt the Bible is the written word of God.
It involves the entire Bible from Genesis one to the Revelation of Jesus Christ 22. I can prove the Bible and secular history agree.
I don't believe a fairy tale and I don't look for someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
I searched and studied myself and God is faithful that WHOEVER seeks him will find him. You can't blame us for your failure to seek. He answers if we ask.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't feel as though my position is as inconsistent as you think. Perhaps it is just the way you perceive things.

Or it could be the way you explain things, or the way you actually do believe - any of these three ideas could be playing a part in our lack of acceptance of the other's perspective.

I see many inconsistencies in Christianity and the teachings of the "Gospels". See that? You are so blinded that you seem to think Christianity is ALL truth.

You know what - I owe you an apology and an explanation. I don't think that all 23,000+ DENOMINATIONS of Christianity represent all truth - and maybe I didn't make that clear. Of course they can't - because so many "Christian" ideas contradict each other. But these are human-made inconsistencies. I do not believe that there are inconsistencies in the Gospels. If you'd like to start another thread on these alleged inconsistencies in the Gospels, I am all game for that.

But I do believe that the basic tenets of Christianity are all true. NOT "all truth." I have to wonder if you are deliberately misquoting me. I think I specifically said that all Christianity is true, but that it does not contain ALL of the truth in the universe. I specifically said that there are truths that are outside of the Christian expression.

Your way is not necessarily all truth, neither is mine.

Amen to that. I am sure I have a lot to learn, and you probably do too. Let's keep learning.

You seem to think you are open-minded and intellectual, but really I don't think so. There is no point in conversation here. I can learn more from talking to a tree.

Wow, that's a pretty insulting statement. One could also read that as a lambastic way of getting out of a conversation. I'm tempted to get sarcastic with you, but I think it's best that I don't lower myself to those tactics.

I think every one of us has some degree of ignorance in us, even myself. I know myself to be both foolish and ignorant at times. But it is just a stupid human trait we all share. Nothing against you personally.

You don't know me personally, so I am not taking anything that you say personally. So don't worry about insulting me. Just remember - out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

"The foolish man doth think himself wise, the wise man knows himself to be the fool."

"The man who never alters his opinion is as standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind." -- William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

 

[Runewolf1973]

"The man who never alters his opinion is as standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind." -- William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Trees are wise. Or haven't you noticed? You could learn more from a tree or nature than you could from any "gospel" or "book". Trees never lie, but the human "mind" is sure capable of it. That is the truth.

 

[Kathryn]

Trees are wise. Or haven't you noticed? You could learn more from a tree or nature than you could from any "gospel" or "book". Trees don't lie, but Man sure does. That is the truth.

I get along great with trees. Trees and me are thick as thieves.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I get along great with trees. Trees and me are thick as thieves.

I did not mean to insult you earlier. I am sorry.

 

[Kathryn]

I did not mean to insult you earlier. I am sorry.

Rune, no offense taken. It's easy to get emotional, or carried away by the power of the pen (or keyboard) in these discussions. I get that way too sometimes, and I'm sure if I don't already owe you an apology, I will at some later date.

I appreciate a good discussion with anyone - whether we agree or disagree. I would prefer that things remain civil, and of course I have my boundaries, but I'm also not easily offended.

I already told you I am predisposed to liking you, and I still mean that. I like your passion for your beliefs, and I like your introspection.

And I really do hope you feel better soon.

Now, duke's up - I'm not going to cut you any slack just because you have a cold! LOL

 

[Runewolf1973]

Rune, no offense taken. It's easy to get emotional, or carried away by the power of the pen (or keyboard) in these discussions. I get that way too sometimes, and I'm sure if I don't already owe you an apology, I will at some later date.

I appreciate a good discussion with anyone - whether we agree or disagree. I would prefer that things remain civil, and of course I have my boundaries, but I'm also not easily offended.

I already told you I am predisposed to liking you, and I still mean that. I like your passion for your beliefs, and I like your introspection.

And I really do hope you feel better soon.

Now, duke's up - I'm not going to cut you any slack just because you have a cold! LOL

I prefer things remain civil too. Sometimes my "mind" speaks before my "heart". In insulting you or anyone, I only insult myself. Thanks for understanding. I have indeed learned something form you.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm not sure I can take the pressure! LOL

Hey, I appreciate that comment - and that is some way cool insight too. "In insulting you or anyone, I only insult myself." I really like that. I've learned something from you too, it seems.

I am going to have to jot that one down in my book of "Quotes to Live By." I really do have a list of those - and this one really does deserve to be included!

Hey, I'll give you some frubals for that one while I'm at it.

 

[challupa]

I can prove the Bible is true. But not in a few posts on a message board. It is a little more involved than that. But I can most certainly prove beyond any shadow of a doubt the Bible is the written word of God.
It involves the entire Bible from Genesis one to the Revelation of Jesus Christ 22. I can prove the Bible and secular history agree.
I don't believe a fairy tale and I don't look for someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
I searched and studied myself and God is faithful that WHOEVER seeks him will find him. You can't blame us for your failure to seek. He answers if we ask.

You've peeked my curiosity, just how would you do that? Some of the best biblical scholars aren't even sure about many aspects of the bible and that is after years of studying the original texts and traced them through their many changes to today's version. Having said that, what are your views on the Nag Hammadi Library?

 

[Paroxys]

I can prove the Bible is true. But not in a few posts on a message board. It is a little more involved than that. But I can most certainly prove beyond any shadow of a doubt the Bible is the written word of God.
It involves the entire Bible from Genesis one to the Revelation of Jesus Christ 22. I can prove the Bible and secular history agree.
I don't believe a fairy tale and I don't look for someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
I searched and studied myself and God is faithful that WHOEVER seeks him will find him. You can't blame us for your failure to seek. He answers if we ask.

How can the Bible be true if it contradicts itself?

And what do you say to those who've tried to seek but have found nothing? What if we'ver asked, and heard nothing but silence? Are you going to claim we didn't seek hard enough, or weren't seeking the proper way? Kind of a contradiction of your purported "if we seek he will come" framework.

No Catholicism is nothing like Christianity. Catholicism is not Biblical.

...Are you kidding me. Christianity is the over-arching broad religion and Catholicism is a branch, just because it's not the branch you particularly endorse doesn't mean you can exclude from common definition. Oh, and if you really want to be Biblical about it, Christianity back in biblical days wasn't Christianity, it was Judaism.

Christians do not kill. Why do you call killers Christians? Christians are simple followers of Christ. No degree needed, no nothing. The Inquisitions were started by Isabella and Ferdinand who were Catholics. The KKK is a race movement has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, though they think it does. Jesus told us to "strive to enter in at the straight gate" This would be self-denial.

So being a follower of Christ is mutually exclusive of being a killer? Is this the argument you're trying to make? In which case the access to what you profess is not universal, violating the precious words of what your savior purports (and what you to).
Assume someone is a follower of Christ, he/she is a soldier and is sent off to war and he fires upon some terrorists and kills them. Is he not both a Follower of Christ and a killer then?
Or if your argument is, since "good is greater than evil" if someone is a killer and a follower of Christ, the follower of Christ supersedes the killer part, and thus he is absolved of all sin. This brings up a paradox, since they can not follow the words of Christ (by being a killer or thief or etc) yet still be a follower of Christ. Also this has some rather grim implications suggesting that a mass murderer could indeed be a "follower of Christ."

We don't understand it all, but he did come to make the way for us to overcome it.
God is not evil. Let me put it this way; there is good and evil and good is greater than evil so good (or GOD) is God. Evil cannot be God because good is greater so good is GOD because it is greater. Make sense?

No. This statement's logic is so twisted up... I don't even have a proper analogy for it.

1st off, why is good greater than evil. I'm expecting some sort of Descartian nonsense like God is good, and therefore good is greater than evil and also since good is greater than evil, God must be good, however, THAT DOESN'T WORK. IT'S CIRCULAR. IT'S NOT LOGIC, IT'S SOPHISTRY.

2nd off, even under your twisted "logic", you seem to suggest that God has both good and evil in him, and since good>evil, God overall is good. This does explain why there are evil things in the world, however, it violates the definition of God, that he is WHOLLY GOOD, that is ABSOLUTELY GOOD, that is NO EVIL WHATSOEVER, which begs the question, why would a wholly good God create evil if he were truly wholly Good? Answer: He isn't actually wholly good. Also apply your "one sin is enough" to God, if he created evil, despite being good, that would be his one sin, and it would be enough.

And can you honestly say, that you've followed the word of the Bible to the very truest sense 100%? The answer is No. I may not know you, but I am certain the answer is a no because you said it yourself "God made many evil things including us." Hence implying that humans are incapable of not sinning, and thus, under your logic, no one is saved.

 

[Linda777]

You've peeked my curiosity, just how would you do that? Some of the best biblical scholars aren't even sure about many aspects of the bible and that is after years of studying the original texts and traced them through their many changes to today's version. Having said that, what are your views on the Nag Hammadi Library?

Many Biblical "scholars" do not even know God. We cannot know or learn of God by our intellect. We can only come to God and know him through the Son. Degrees can do so much.
The Bible says that God would reveal his word to babes, not to the so called wise and educated. God resists the proud and gives grace to the lowly. I'm not saying I'm lowly, but God isn't impressed with degrees, but he looks to people who earnestly seek him from their heart.
Take the word theopneustos (Greek word;and the English language can barely understand this word much less interpret it correctly) and show me where can it be found anywhere in the world's literature. It is found first and only in 2 Timothy 3:16. You won't find this word in the Vedas or in the Koran or in any book of ancients. The word in Greek means God breathed. The holy scriptures were breathed out by God. No other book was. It is significant why the New Testament was written in Greek.
I am familiar with what literature is out there and there is no book to compare with the Bible.
Hammurabi has been thought to be Abram of Babylonia by some scholars. He isn't tho. The Nuzu tablets found in Kirkuk, Iraq explains why Ishmael was born.
Ishmael (Ancestor of Muhammad the Islam founder) the son of Abraham the patriarch was born from Hagar under the Hammurabi law.
The Hammurabi laws had many things right many things wrong. It is the Law of Moses that is perfect when it comes down from God to Sinai to Moses to Israel to us.
The Hammurabi believers were also pagans of course.