messengers & prophets

[gnostic]

From what I can tell, by using the word "messenger" in religious context, from the Christianity and Judaism, it is another name or title for "prophet".

Am I wrong?

If I am wrong then please elaborate the distinction.

With Christianity, apostles, Jesus' closest disciples, were clearly not prophets, like John the Baptist, but I supposed they (apostles or disciples) could be messengers.

In Islam, they seemed to hint that there are some differences between the two. For the life of me, I still don't understand why they make the distinction.

For Muslims, please define what are the "messenger" and "prophet". Explain how their roles differ.

OR perhaps, Messenger doesn't mean prophet, apostle, etc. Note the capital 'M'.

Perhaps, these Messengers referred to angels. After all, the meaning of the word (which I believe to be a Greek word, but correct me if I'm wrong), angel, is "messenger".

 

[drsatish]

From what I can tell, by using the word "messenger" in religious context, from the Christianity and Judaism, it is another name or title for "prophet".

Am I wrong?

If I am wrong then please elaborate the distinction.

With Christianity, apostles, Jesus' closest disciples, were clearly not prophets, like John the Baptist, but I supposed they (apostles or disciples) could be messengers.

In Islam, they seemed to hint that there are some differences between the two. For the life of me, I still don't understand why they make the distinction.

For Muslims, please define what are the "messenger" and "prophet". Explain how their roles differ.

OR perhaps, Messenger doesn't mean prophet, apostle, etc. Note the capital 'M'.

Perhaps, these Messengers referred to angels. After all, the meaning of the word (which I believe to be a Greek word, but correct me if I'm wrong), angel, is "messenger".

You are a Messenger…
(irrespective of WHICH Messenger you use…Yahoo, MSN, TV Media, Film Media, Newspaper Media, Magnetic Media, Optical Media, Optical Holographic Media, Facebook, Banks, Govts, Military, Jets, Tanks, Satellites, Laser Guns, Laser EYE SURGERY….!_
You are a Messenger…
if you can send a Message to the World…
WITHOUT
DOMINATION overtones..
Satish
PS: Coz “Dominating” agencies….are….”bombarding & brainwashing you…when you wake up in the morning.”

 

[horizon_mj1]

20000-NAMES.COM: Angel Names, Messenger Names--meaning, origin, etymology ; yes Messenger does mean Angel in Greek. Prophits may be seen as Messengers in that they relay important information pertaining to God as Messengers do, but Profits deal with a greater public through their works while Messengers (as written in doctorine) relay a more personal message. (IMO)

 

[BruceDLimber]

You are doubtless correct in re Judaism and Christianity.

But in the Baha'i Faith, a "prophet" is also an ordinary human, generally an adherent of an existing religion who also prophesies the eventual coming of another, newer religion.

Whereas in contrast, a "Messenger" (aka either "Divine Messenger" or "Manifestation of God") is a far higher being than an ordinary human: one directly invested by God with the Holy Spirit such that He gives infallible guidance to humanity as He both renews the existing religions and founds a new religious stage (i.e., a new religion) in the single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God. Such Messengers come typically every 500-1,000 years, and fulfill many prophecies through Their appearance and actions.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[beenie]

Here is an explanation from an Islamic prospective. It seems that Messengers convey a new set of laws to unbelieving people, and Prophets clarify laws to a believing people.

The difference between a Messenger and a Prophet
Reference to Holy Qur`an 33:40
........; he was a messenger of God and the last prophet.
- What is the difference between messenger and prophet?
- Why A messnger and not the LAST messenger?

Praise be to Allaah.

The well-known difference between a Prophet and a Messenger is that a Messenger is one to whom a law is revealed and he is commanded to convey it, whilst a Prophet is one to whom a law is revealed but he is not commanded to convey it. But this distinction is not free of problems, because a Prophet is also commanded to call people, convey the Message and judge among the people. Hence Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: The correct view is that the Messenger is one who is sent to a disbelieving people, and the Prophet is one who is sent to a believing people with the sharee’ah of the Messenger who came before him, to teach them and judge between them, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We did send down the Tawraat (Torah) [to Moosa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah’s Will, judged for the Jews”

[al-Maa’idah 5:44]

So the Prophets of the Children of Israel judged by the Tawraat which Allaah had revealed to Moosa.

With regard to the aayah,

“but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets” [al-Ahzaab 33:40]

and why it did not say the last of the Messengers – the end of the Message does not mean the end of Prophethood, but the end of Prophethood does mean the end of the Message. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There will be no Prophet after me,” and he did not say, there will be no Messenger after me.

Thus we know that there is no Messenger and no Prophet after him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); he was the last of the Prophets and of the Messengers, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Source

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Every Messenger is a prophet, but not every prophet is a Messenger.
As an analogy; Every Doctor can also be a nurse, but not every nurse can be a Doctor.
For example, Jesus was a Messenger and a Prophet, but Joseph was only a prophet, as He was not founder of a new religion.
Moses was a Messenger and a Prophet, but, Aaron, was only a prophet.
Muhammad was a Messenger and a Prophet, and according to Quran was the seal of prophets. But Quran said Messengers shall come:

"O children of Adam! verily, there will come to you messengers from amongst you, narrating unto you my signs; then whoso fears God and does what is right, there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."(Quran, 7:35)

 

[InvestigateTruth]

With Christianity, apostles, Jesus' closest disciples, were clearly not prophets, like John the Baptist, but I supposed they (apostles or disciples) could be messengers.

The disciples were messengers of Jesus, and they were given the title apostles, but not the Divine Messengers who are Founder of a new Faith.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Personal understanding:
Messenger - every human being rather everything is a messenger of God as everything is part and parcel of God itself. [This can be understood only by those who have transcended their minds]
Prophet- One that others acknowledges the messenger as True messenger for them. [ those who have still not been able to transcend their own minds]

Love & rgds

 

[gnostic]

But in the Baha'i Faith, a "prophet" is also an ordinary human, generally an adherent of an existing religion who also prophesies the eventual coming of another, newer religion.

Whereas in contrast, a "Messenger" (aka either "Divine Messenger" or "Manifestation of God") is a far higher being than an ordinary human: one directly invested by God with the Holy Spirit such that He gives infallible guidance to humanity as He both renews the existing religions and founds a new religious stage (i.e., a new religion) in the single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God. Such Messengers come typically every 500-1,000 years, and fulfill many prophecies through Their appearance and actions.

Sorry, Bruce. I don't understand the (red) part about being more than human, more so than the prophet.

Can you explain?

Perhaps, you can provide example of who is messenger with your explanation, who is not a prophet, but do not use Muhammad.

(I don't want you to use Muhammad, because according to Islam and to Muslims, he is both prophet and messenger. I want to understand your explanation, and I am afraid that using Muhammad as an example, won't help my understanding.)

Also from what I can tell from Muslims interpretations about the messenger/prophet thingy, there are more abundant of messengers than there are prophets.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Friends,

Personal understanding:
Messenger - every human being rather everything is a messenger of God as everything is part and parcel of God itself. [This can be understood only by those who have transcended their minds][quote/]

I agree with this for the most part, but not totally. How I understand it, a Messenger is embedded with the "DNA" of Divinity; only until transcendace of mind is complete can the Messenger do what they (human, gender does not matter) were sent to do.

Prophet- One that others acknowledges the messenger as True messenger for them. [ those who have still not been able to transcend their own minds]

Love & rgds

A Prophet yes does acknowledge the Messenger as a true Messenger, but are the ones who fortell a Messenger's coming or elaborate on the information relayed from the Messenger. Prophets need a transcendence of mind as well, but not to the extent of Messengers.

 

[BruceDLimber]

a "Messenger" (aka either "Divine Messenger" or "Manifestation of God") is a far higher being than an ordinary human: one directly invested by God with the Holy Spirit such that He gives infallible guidance to humanity as He both renews the existing religions and founds a new religious stage (i.e., a new religion) in the single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God.

Sorry, Bruce. I don't understand the (red) part about being more than human, more so than the prophet.

Can you explain?

As I mentioned, IOV prophets are ordinary humans, and are typically followers of an existing religion (while sometimes prophesying a new religion still to come).

According to the Baha'i scriptures, there are five of what we call "Kingdoms of Creation." In ascending order, theswe are:

• mineral
• vegetable
• animal
• human
• Divine Messenger

Each level has the attributes of the lower levels and also adds something new.

A vegetable, for example, exhibits life and growth; humans have an eternal soul not present in animals.

And what distinguishes Divine Messengers is the direct investiture of the Holy Spirit (at God's initiative) that I mentioned above. This both gives Them complete knowledge of the past and makes Them infallible in their statements and actions.

Since I'm to skip Muhammad, some (but not all) of the others include Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, and Baha'u'llah.

Baha'u'llah, Founder of the Baha'i Faith, describes this as follows:

"I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred. Can it be still when the tempestuous winds are blowing? Nay, by Him Who is the Lord of all Names and Attributes! They move it as they list. The evanescent is as nothing before Him Who is the Ever-Abiding. His all-compelling summons hath reached Me, and caused Me to speak His praise amidst all people. I was indeed as one dead when His behest was uttered. The hand of the will of thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Merciful, transformed Me. Can any one speak forth of his own accord that for which all men, both high and low, will protest against him? Nay, by Him Who taught the Pen the eternal mysteries, save him whom the grace of the Almighty, the All-Powerful, hath strengthened."
--The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 57

Each of these Messengers founds a new religion which is in fact the next step in a single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God!

You can read more about this here:

http://www.bahai-library

by clicking "Writings." I especially commend to you Some Answered Questions.

Further questions are of course most welcome! :-0

Bruce

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Another analogy which is found in Baha'i Scriptures, as well as Islamic scriptures, and (I think Bible), is that Messengers are likened to the Sun, while the Prophets are likened to the moon.
The Sun has it's own light, but the moon gets it's light from the moon. The Messengers are the source of knowledge. They have innate knowledge. But the prophets get their knowledge from the Messenger.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Horizon,

A Prophet yes does acknowledge the Messenger as a true Messenger, but are the ones who fortell a Messenger's coming or elaborate on the information relayed from the Messenger. Prophets need a transcendence of mind as well, but not to the extent of Messengers.

Plian & simple.
Each form or no-form is a messenger and only when the messenger realizes IT [that he too is a messenger like everything else ]; he is declared a prophet!

Love & rgds