Messianic Jews vs. Reality

[not nom]

It's one of those things that are a bit difficult to get into without offending anyone.

heh, and rightfully so. though it's not so much offensive, just a bit sad. to each their own I guess, pardon the pun

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am 100% full blooded Ashkenazi with not a single drop of gentile blood ....

I find talk of blood purity intensely revolting.

 

[Revoltingest]

I find talk of blood purity intensely revolting.

Watch it there, bub!
Personally, I found such talk disturbing too. Moreover, to criticize an offshoot of a faith as contradictory is ironic indeed.
(As if contradictions, inconsistencies & unrealities don't abound in the original.)
So if someone is a messianic Jew, I'm OK with it.

 

[Flankerl]

Yeah, and it used to be that any Jew who became atheist or converted would be separated from the people all together. Now, there are many Jews who are atheist and still considered Jewish, which is seen as completely okay. But if it be a conversion to another religion, then they are stupid, right?

Stupid? No. They do what they think is ok. No problem there, they arent just with the jewish people anymore.
They joined another club. And iam ok with that.


I wrote that its stupid to believe in a so called moshiach when its quite obvious that he is not one. You know in case of breaking the law or i dont know.... dying before doing anything.




Also people should stop equating US reform judaism with reform judaism everywhere else. Thanks.

 

[not nom]

It depends on if there is a legitimate gene marker which can be made known as Fnulpish.

by the way, plenty of such markers exist. maybe not every individual produces one or several of them (because sometimes, at least theoretically, people carry on their genes without disease or mutation that puts such a "stamp" on it), but generally, how is that tricky to find? the bottleneck is laboratory personel, and more importantly, the real bottleneck is giving a ****.

finding such a marker would mean nothing other than "those were real hardcore racists, who wouldn't breed with anyone else". but that doesn't make fnulps real, it just proves delusion has consequences (as if we need more proof of that).

 

[not nom]

They joined another club. And iam ok with that.

I wonder how a messiah who thinks in terms of clubs would look like haha...

.. maybe that's why he isn't coming

 

[Rakhel]

I wonder how a messiah who thinks in terms of clubs would look like haha...

.. maybe that's why he isn't coming

I blame the bouncers. They wouldn't let him in the door.


Seriously though. In my opinion, it is not the "messianic" part of Judaism the gets me. We have Hasidic Jews that are verging on the idea of a messiah that is dead but hasn't died and will come back.
It is the word "complete" that drives most of us bonkers. "Complete _____" is nothing more than a derivative of the "No True Scotsman"

 

[not nom]

a complete jew - a male one, anyway - is a contradiction in terms *rimshot*

hmm okay that was bad.

what I honestly wonder though is, will the messiah know about some basic physics, i.e. the fact that all creation is one, and everything else more or less made up? it's questions such as these that make me sleep like a baby at night

 

[muhammad_isa]

As for the word "Christianity", I agree that the original "Christians' were naught but a Jewish sect, the problem is lump summing anyone who claims to believe in Jesus as a "Christian" as if the doctrines themselves do not matter.

Yes .. that's very interesting .. I was raised a Christian, and accepted Muhammad as a prophet, so I become 'a Muslim', yet I have not renounced being 'a Christian' .. but I don't believe Jesus is God ( or the son / God in the flesh) .. I believe that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ), and that He will return soon..

Are you concerned at all with what Yashua actually taught as opposed to what the gentiles say he taught?

Well that's the important thing .. the truth!

 

[Levite]

And the presumption that Jesus was a false prophet is just that, a presumption. He specifically said not an iota of the Law will ever be void.

Perhaps, and yet Christianity rejects the actual practice of the commandments. And since the only records of what Jesus purportedly said are either the canonical gospels, which ultimately create support for rejecting the Torah, or the non-canonical gospels, which create support for gnosticism and other equally unacceptable heresies, there is nothing upon which to base a supposition that he was not a false prophet. Especially since he rejected the teachings of the Rabbis, and that is heresy.

So then what do you call Reform and Kairites? This is further my point, it seems the Rabbinicsts want to say "We are Judaism, if not one of us, you're not following Judaism". Little different than the Protestants and Catholics who say "We are Christianity, if you don't follow us, you are following a heresy/apostasy".

Reform and Reconstructionist Judaisms have their own problems, but they are still essentially sects of Rabbinic Judaism, and, depending on how they are practiced, are not necessarily heretical. Karaites are heretics.

And it seems to me that Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, and Protestants have the right to say that they are normative Christianity, since they all more or less follow the ground rules for the religion set up at Nicaea.

This goes to show how the meaning of the word "Worship" has been lost. David was worshiped. David worshiped Saul. Joshua worshiped an angel. The commandment is to worship and SERVE G-d alone. The word "worship" merely means to bow down. Again, the meaning of 'worship" has been mangled. If you're referring to treating Jesus as G-d, then you further my point about how the mainstream gentile heresies like the Trinity have usurped the representation.

First of all, David was not worshipped, nor did he worship Saul. You are mistaking the fact that the word hishtachavut (prostrating oneself) Biblically had both a religious meaning (as in, to bow down during worship) and a secular meaning (as in, to bow down before a lord or king), and the two meanings were not necessarily identical. And if you mean the English word worship, that is also not what that means: see here. And since the overwhelming, vast majority of Christianity for the past 2000 years has been trinitarian, I find it difficult to suppose that their form of the religion is heretical, but somehow you have the true and normative tradition.

Ultimately, and I thank you for confirming my point, the Rabbinicists are condemning a strawman that the mainstream "Orthodox Christians" have built, as if that strawman somehow represents the original.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. No one is saying that you shouldn't believe whatever you like. But there is simply no foundation for saying that your theology is normative to either Judaism or Christianity.

 

[cablescavenger]

I didn't want to write this thread because even though I am ethnically Jewish I am in no way a practitioner of the Jewish religion and never will be. But I have a problem with those who call themselves Messianic Jews.

I find most of them insulting. Many of those who call themselves Messianic Jews haven't a shred on Jewish DNA in them, many of them are gentiles who have done nothing more than claimed to be Jewish and then go so far as to saying that they are complete Jews because they have accepted Jesus as the Messiah,

Here is where reality kicks in. How can you claim you are Jewish if like none of your ancestors are like Jewish?

What makes you think that you are now Jewish?

IAnd why would you want to be Jewish in the first place? Is it because you mistakenly believe that the Jews are God's only Chosen People and you some how believe that being Jewish will get you closer to God?

The world is inclusive now. There is no room for religious boundaries going forward.

I would like to see a one state solution in Israel so we can have Jewish Arabs. That is what I would call progress.

 

[Rakhel]

The world is inclusive now. There is no room for religious boundaries going forward.

I would like to see a one state solution in Israel so we can have Jewish Arabs. That is what I would call progress.

This thread has nothing to do with politics and it would be nice if it were kept that way.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Stupid? No. They do what they think is ok. No problem there, they arent just with the jewish people anymore.
They joined another club. And iam ok with that.


I wrote that its stupid to believe in a so called moshiach when its quite obvious that he is not one. You know in case of breaking the law or i dont know.... dying before doing anything.




Also people should stop equating US reform judaism with reform judaism everywhere else. Thanks.

So you think believing in Christ is stupid...I think trying to perform Mitzvahs that half can not even be fulfilled is stupid.

Not really, but I know that is just as offensive as the hate you are always spewing against Christians. Your just as offensive as Shermana is

 

[JacobEzra.]

Also people should stop equating US reform judaism with reform judaism everywhere else. Thanks.

PS; where did I do that? Thanks

 

[JacobEzra.]

And I don't really care if my Jewishness is revoked. I still consider myself part Jewish. Especially after all the mockery I received for it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Somebody should coerce this thread back on topic.

 

[Rakhel]

PS; where did I do that? Thanks

That, if Flankerl doesn't mind, is a European pet peeve. There is a big difference between European Reform Judaism and US Reform Judaism. European Reform Judaism is more equated to US Conservative Judaism.
I knew a Brit that had the same pet peeve.

 

[JacobEzra.]

That, if Flankerl doesn't mind, is a European pet peeve. There is a big difference between European Reform Judaism and US Reform Judaism. European Reform Judaism is more equated to US Conservative Judaism.
I knew a Brit that had the same pet peeve.

I know that, and understand that. Its just....I never said a word about Reform Judaism

 

[Rakhel]

I think, and I may be wrong, Flankerl was just adding to the original rant.

The way I see this thread is that it started off as a rant about Messianic Judaism and how some of it's practitioners claim that they are now more Jewish than those Jews that don't believe in Jesus. That would be like a Muslim saying, and I paraphrase here, "I am more Christian because I follow Mohammad."

 

[Flankerl]

So you think believing in Christ is stupid...

Based on the jewish scriptures, yes.
Based on christian scriptures its obviously the right thing to do.

As a catholic you are obviously on the right path based on your religion.

I think trying to perform Mitzvahs that half can not even be fulfilled is stupid.

And that of course is good for you and you are entitled to that.

Not really, but I know that is just as offensive as the hate you are always spewing against Christians. Your just as offensive as Shermana is

Iam just returning the love.

PS; where did I do that? Thanks

What Rakhel wrote.