Metaphorically or literally?

[Pegg]

I noticed you only mentioned the New Testament regarding parables. Is is because you feel the Old Testament in its entirety is historical, or you just simply didn't mention it regarding parables?

the Hebrew scriptures are a combination of history and prophecy... I believe all the accounts are literal and happened literally. The hebrew scriptures are made up of Historical accounts (Genesis to Esther) there is also poetry, which uses a lot of metaphors and similies and analogies as teaching aids (obviously not all literal). Then there are the Prophecies. But basically, we get the history of mankind from the beginning up until the 5th century BCE.

its so hard to discuss this without looking at individual passages, there is a lot in the hebrew scriptures and im not doing them any justice by rambling off a few points off the top of my head.

 

[Draka]

I don't know whether to find it sad, or a failure in the education system, or what, when I see people who actually believe that the bible is a history book. It's religious scripture, mythology, not literal history. We know for a fact that Genesis cannot be take as literal history. We have proof that it did not happen in the manner described. We have proof that the Earth is billions of years old. Why do people actually hold to something proven false time and time again?

 

[outhouse]

I don't know whether to find it sad, or a failure in the education system, or what, when I see people who actually believe that the bible is a history book. It's religious scripture, mythology, not literal history. We know for a fact that Genesis cannot be take as literal history. We have proof that it did not happen in the manner described. We have proof that the Earth is billions of years old. Why do people actually hold to something proven false time and time again?

brainwashing is hard to reverse.

 

[Me Myself]

brainwashing is hard to reverse.

And shouldn´t be. The problem here is not mental hygiene, is lack of it.

 

[outhouse]

And shouldn´t be. The problem here is not mental hygiene, is lack of it.

Im not sure.

People are taught something since birth. They have material that backs their belief and a social structure that states its also correct and not in dispute.

why should outsiders with a different view even be trusted, many are not interested in or even have a need for more education let alone one that tears down their foundation ?

It would be great if everyone was in the pursuit of knowledge, sadly for most thats not what their life is about.

I do understand your point.

 

[Draka]

brainwashing is hard to reverse.

They have their beliefs so ingrained and so structured that even the idea that one thing they believe could possibly be wrong seems to spark a fear that it could all be wrong and so they are unwilling to learn about anything which may contradict their beliefs. It's like they believe their whole world is built precariously upon sticks and if one stick fails to hold up the whole world comes tumbling down. So they ignore the fact that that stick is cracked, or isn't even there.

 

[outhouse]

They have their beliefs so ingrained and so structured that even the idea that one thing they believe could possibly be wrong seems to spark a fear that it could all be wrong and so they are unwilling to learn about anything which may contradict their beliefs. It's like they believe their whole world is built precariously upon sticks and if one stick fails to hold up the whole world comes tumbling down. So they ignore the fact that that stick is cracked, or isn't even there.

Ah yes the zipper effect.

Parody Websites like landover baptist have a field day with this.




It actually teaches a forced poor exegesis because they cannot even dig into the very book they follow, not completely learn from. They are forced to ignore and interpret scripture in their own unique way its almost like how all snowflakes are different. Yet its perfectly acceptable change belief inwards and within, its never acceptable to change their belief of a literal view.

 

[Corkscrew]

They have their beliefs so ingrained and so structured that even the idea that one thing they believe could possibly be wrong seems to spark a fear that it could all be wrong and so they are unwilling to learn about anything which may contradict their beliefs. It's like they believe their whole world is built precariously upon sticks and if one stick fails to hold up the whole world comes tumbling down. So they ignore the fact that that stick is cracked, or isn't even there.

It brings to thought the superstitious dogma that plagued people like Galileo in his search to unlock the secrets of the universe.

 

[Peace5366]

I can't tell you about other stories but the Catholic view on Adam and Eve is up to the individual if it's literal or metaphorical.

 

[espo35]

Most scholars AND historians think he never existed. .

"Most", eh?

Of course you can substantiate that "fact"?

:areyoucra

 

[thebigpicture]

the Hebrew scriptures are a combination of history and prophecy... I believe all the accounts are literal and happened literally. The hebrew scriptures are made up of Historical accounts (Genesis to Esther) there is also poetry, which uses a lot of metaphors and similies and analogies as teaching aids (obviously not all literal). Then there are the Prophecies. But basically, we get the history of mankind from the beginning up until the 5th century BCE.

its so hard to discuss this without looking at individual passages, there is a lot in the hebrew scriptures and im not doing them any justice by rambling off a few points off the top of my head.

So you believe (to name a few): the story of Jonah really happened; you believe that a human being can turn a rod into a snake; you believe that the reason people speak different languages today is because in the biblical days a whole bunch of people got together and tried to build a tower to reach heaven; you believe all that’s true. You believe all those events in the Old Testament is historical; that it actually happened. So, I have to ask you... how? What could possibly make you believe that those events are probable?

 

[Me Myself]

I can't tell you about other stories but the Catholic view on Adam and Eve is up to the individual if it's literal or metaphorical.

Actually Catholic church already claimed that Adam and Eve is methaphorical, for the evidence has been most than sufficient by now.

 

[Thief]

Actually Catholic church already claimed that Adam and Eve is methaphorical, for the evidence has been most than sufficient by now.

But we do know....

Day Six happened...here we are.

The Garden event happened....someone had to be the first to talk to God.

And of course...the tree of knowledge is a metaphor.
Knowledge is not acquired by eating.

 

[Pegg]

So you believe (to name a few): the story of Jonah really happened; you believe that a human being can turn a rod into a snake; you believe that the reason people speak different languages today is because in the biblical days a whole bunch of people got together and tried to build a tower to reach heaven; you believe all that’s true. You believe all those events in the Old Testament is historical; that it actually happened. So, I have to ask you... how? What could possibly make you believe that those events are probable?

yes i do believe all those accounts mentioned are real historical events.

Could Jonah survive in the stomach of a whale for 3 days and nights? If God was keeping him safe inside that whale, then yes I believe that is possible.
Jesus turned water into wine, so Moses could turn a stick into a snake if God made it happen... God can rearrange matter in any way he chooses... He made the dust of the ground into a human being so I think he can turn a stick into a snake.

the languages of mankind are all traced back to 3 branches of Japhetic, Hamitic, or Shemitic languages. That would be an incredible coincidence if the account about Noah and his 3 sons was a myth. On the other hand, if the account is true, then it explains perfectly why there are three branches of the human race.

I cant fault the bible in its historical accuracy and archeology and scientific discoveries are continually adding credit to the bible as a book of fact, not fiction.

 

[outhouse]

But we do know....

Day Six happened...here we are.

The Garden event happened....someone had to be the first to talk to God.

And of course...the tree of knowledge is a metaphor.
Knowledge is not acquired by eating.

science says we evolved so that makes the 6th day impossible.

even the church doesnt beleive the 6th day as literal.


The garden event by many is mythology




hebrews culture started somewhere around 1250BC as semetic speaking people migrated to israel, there were all races of people long before the garden or 5th day legend were ever drempt of.

 

[Draka]

yes i do believe all those accounts mentioned are real historical events.

Could Jonah survive in the stomach of a whale for 3 days and nights? If God was keeping him safe inside that whale, then yes I believe that is possible.
Jesus turned water into wine, so Moses could turn a stick into a snake if God made it happen... God can rearrange matter in any way he chooses... He made the dust of the ground into a human being so I think he can turn a stick into a snake.

:areyoucra What is the difference between believing any of that and believing that there is an immortal old man living at the North Pole with a bunch of elves who flies around the whole world in one night delivering presents to all children marked as "good" on his list?

the languages of mankind are all traced back to 3 branches of Japhetic, Hamitic, or Shemitic languages. That would be an incredible coincidence if the account about Noah and his 3 sons was a myth. On the other hand, if the account is true, then it explains perfectly why there are three branches of the human race.

You do realize that this has all been discredited as well right? :sarcastic No, I don't suppose you do, or that it would matter to you anyway.

I cant fault the bible in its historical accuracy and archeology and scientific discoveries are continually adding credit to the bible as a book of fact, not fiction.

Wait. What? Just what are these archeological and scientific discoveries that are continually adding credit to the bible being historical fact? Where are all the peer-reviewed articles and evidence? Why aren't we seeing this stuff pop up in our news all the time and in our science books? Please, do tell.

 

[crystalonyx]

Are the stories in the Bible to be taken:
a) Literally
b) Metaphorically
c) Both
d) No one knows

It should be (b), but many take them literally.

 

[Thief]

science says we evolved so that makes the 6th day impossible.

even the church doesnt beleive the 6th day as literal.


The garden event by many is mythology




hebrews culture started somewhere around 1250BC as semetic speaking people migrated to israel, there were all races of people long before the garden or 5th day legend were ever drempt of.

And you actually think a day can confine the efforts of God?
I think we covered this in another thread.
Did you forget?

Evolution .....Day Six....plenty of time....Man as a species.

That you don't believe in God, is probably why you hesitate with Chapter Two.

Of course...somebody had to be first to walk with God.
That was Adam.

 

[Thief]

They have their beliefs so ingrained and so structured that even the idea that one thing they believe could possibly be wrong seems to spark a fear that it could all be wrong and so they are unwilling to learn about anything which may contradict their beliefs. It's like they believe their whole world is built precariously upon sticks and if one stick fails to hold up the whole world comes tumbling down. So they ignore the fact that that stick is cracked, or isn't even there.

ALL forms of belief work this way.

One experiment fails and the whole theory is trashed.
One inappropriate word and the whole speech is ignored.
One bad deal, and the whole company could go belly up.
etc...etc...etc...

Theology works the same way.

Maybe you've noticed this forum exists...because of it.

Try to say something...absolutely....
Now read my signature line.

 

[Pegg]

:areyoucra What is the difference between believing any of that and believing that there is an immortal old man living at the North Pole with a bunch of elves who flies around the whole world in one night delivering presents to all children marked as "good" on his list?

i dont think anyone has found any evidence of a santa clause living at the north pole making presents whereas archeologist have found the Ziggurats of mesopotamea which date back to the earliest history of mankind...it is known that mankind spread out from the plains of shinar as the bible states, mankind are all related as geneologists and DNA have proven, so the bibles accounts of such things have hard evidence beside them.

You do realize that this has all been discredited as well right? :sarcastic No, I don't suppose you do, or that it would matter to you anyway.

and so has the moonlanding

does that mean the moonlanding didnt really happen?

Wait. What? Just what are these archeological and scientific discoveries that are continually adding credit to the bible being historical fact? Where are all the peer-reviewed articles and evidence? Why aren't we seeing this stuff pop up in our news all the time and in our science books? Please, do tell.

there is plenty.