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Metaphorically or literally?

Corkscrew

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
Thief said:
ALL forms of belief work this way.

One experiment fails and the whole theory is trashed.
One inappropriate word and the whole speech is ignored.
One bad deal, and the whole company could go belly up.
etc...etc...etc...

Theology works the same way.

Maybe you've noticed this forum exists...because of it.

Try to say something...absolutely....
Now read my signature line.
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Most of the things in the bible are scientifically impossible, but the ship is kept afloat by the belief in God; he can make the impossible possible and there is no way to scientifically prove or disprove his existence...much like Santa Clause.
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
Pegg said:
i dont think anyone has found any evidence of a santa clause living at the north pole making presents whereas archeologist have found the Ziggurats of mesopotamea which date back to the earliest history of mankind...it is known that mankind spread out from the plains of shinar as the bible states, mankind are all related as geneologists and DNA have proven, so the bibles accounts of such things have hard evidence beside them.
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There is as much evidence for the existence of Santa Clause as there is for the Abrahamic god. It is not known that humankind spread as you say it did. And we are also related to other apes, as DNA proves as well.


and so has the moonlanding

does that mean the moonlanding didnt really happen?
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No dear, it has been proven that it is not how you say it is, it has not been proven that the moonlanding did not occur. :sarcastic




there is plenty.
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So, where is it?
 
T

thebigpicture

Active Member
Pegg said:
yes i do believe all those accounts mentioned are real historical events.

Could Jonah survive in the stomach of a whale for 3 days and nights? If God was keeping him safe inside that whale, then yes I believe that is possible.
Jesus turned water into wine, so Moses could turn a stick into a snake if God made it happen... God can rearrange matter in any way he chooses... He made the dust of the ground into a human being so I think he can turn a stick into a snake.
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If I recall correctly there were two sides to that whole “let’s turn a stick into a snake” event. The side of Moses and the side of the Pharaohs. You say that “god” helped Moses. Who helped the side of the Pharaohs?

Do you see any of the events that happened in the bible happening in the world today? Do you see people being eaten by fish, surviving three days and being thrown up in one piece? (By the way, it never stated that the fish was a whale; just a fish that was prepared by god) Do you see people turning non-living objects into animals? Do you see people splitting oceans and seas and walking across -- not on mud, mind you -- on dry land? Do you see people eating fruits and then instantly knowing things they never knew before? I could go on and on. If they could be done then, don’t you think they would be able to be done now?

the languages of mankind are all traced back to 3 branches of Japhetic, Hamitic, or Shemitic languages. That would be an incredible coincidence if the account about Noah and his 3 sons was a myth. On the other hand, if the account is true, then it explains perfectly why there are three branches of the human race.
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Wow. First of all, do you really think that people could actually build anything that would reach Heaven? Really? If they could, don’t you think they’d be giving it a go right about now as we write with all the advanced technology we have today? Secondly, do you actually think that god would have to change people’s language for all time in order to stop them from doing something he didn’t want them to do? Do you actually think he was worried people would be able to reach heaven? Thirdly, again, do you actually believe that different races speak different languages because a long time ago they tried to build a tower to heaven? That makes sense to you? That makes no sense at all, nor does it make sense that god would destroy all human beings with a flood knowing they would go right back to form afterwards. What on earth would be the point?

...and scientific discoveries are continually adding credit to the bible as a book of fact, not fiction.
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Uh, no, actually it's the complete opposite.
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I always believed that when Jonah was swallowed by the big fish, that it was kind of a spiritual separation from God. When Jonah was "spat out" on the shore, it meant that the prophet had reconciled with God.
The reason for this, or should I say reasons: 1. Whales eat plankton, their throats are very small. 2. The Bible doesn't actually say whale, anyway, and what fish would be big enough to swallow a human being whole? 3. Parables seem to be a big part of teaching- these stories convey truth, and they don't need to be literal in order to convey that truth.
Just because a story isn't a literal story, it doesn't mean it doesn't hold a lot of truths in it.
About history, they are just beginning to find evidence that King David actually existed- and much of the Bible happened before King David- a long time before. That is something to keep in mind, too.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Corkscrew said:
Most of the things in the bible are scientifically impossible, but the ship is kept afloat by the belief in God; he can make the impossible possible and there is no way to scientifically prove or disprove his existence...much like Santa Clause.
Click to expand...

Your example to support the idea failed.
Wish you had chosen something else.

Children believe in Santa....until they learn otherwise.

Belief in God is a...'wait til you die'....event.
In the meantime we have events like this forum, wherein we try to sort it out.

But I find the believer hesitates, as I make room for science.
And the scientist hesitates, as I make room for God.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
ChristineES said:
I always believed that when Jonah was swallowed by the big fish, that it was kind of a spiritual separation from God. When Jonah was "spat out" on the shore, it meant that the prophet had reconciled with God.
The reason for this, or should I say reasons: 1. Whales eat plankton, their throats are very small. 2. The Bible doesn't actually say whale, anyway, and what fish would be big enough to swallow a human being whole? 3. Parables seem to be a big part of teaching- these stories convey truth, and they don't need to be literal in order to convey that truth.
Just because a story isn't a literal story, it doesn't mean it doesn't hold a lot of truths in it.
About history, they are just beginning to find evidence that King David actually existed- and much of the Bible happened before King David- a long time before. That is something to keep in mind, too.
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very well put!!!!!


Just keep in mind how they will have a fable or legend already put together and then add their history to it, to give their culture moral guidelines.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
outhouse said:
very well put!!!!!


Just keep in mind how they will have a fable or legend already put together and then add their history to it, to give their culture moral guidelines.
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And you encourage digression....to suit your agenda of non-belief.

Do you not lump all of the bible to metaphor?
Or do you pick and choose as do the rest of us?

Some parts literal...some parts not.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
no...i'm just saying your reply added nothing to the conversation...
:sorry1:
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On the contrary....
As we all decide what to say, straightforwardly....
as compared to metaphorically....

We form in ourselves, the means of discernment, that method of thought which draws the line.

Most often, a spoken gesture is easy enough to be sure of.
Most people are not so easily confused.

But then again, there seems large numbers of 'believers', who don't know when ...or how...
to draw that line.
As if they need only recital, to be sure.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Odion said:
Where do people like me who weren't raised with religion factor into this? :D
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ha ha :p
point being, people change their minds about things when they are convinced
and what determines the persuasion....?
who knows, it's all relative
 
Corkscrew

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
Thief said:
Your example to support the idea failed.
Wish you had chosen something else.

Children believe in Santa....until they learn otherwise.

Belief in God is a...'wait til you die'....event.
In the meantime we have events like this forum, wherein we try to sort it out.

But I find the believer hesitates, as I make room for science.
And the scientist hesitates, as I make room for God.
Click to expand...

I don’t want to get into splitting hairs over the Santa Clause example, but my point was why bother attempting to rationalize a religious belief when the very foundation is based on a system that is not scientifically verifiable. When you are allowed to draw conclusions without regard to our known sciences, one can easily see why there are so many different interpretations of the bible. This is exactly what I would expect to see. The wonderful thing about make believe is there are no rules.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Corkscrew said:
I don’t want to get into splitting hairs over the Santa Clause example, but my point was why bother attempting to rationalize a religious belief when the very foundation is based on a system that is not scientifically verifiable. When you are allowed to draw conclusions without regard to our known sciences, one can easily see why there are so many different interpretations of the bible. This is exactly what I would expect to see. The wonderful thing about make believe is there are no rules.
Click to expand...

Believing in Santa Claus had rules.
(be good or you get a lump of coal)

Anything you decide to believe in, will have rules.

Science to have faith?.....is not one of those rules.
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
waitasec said:
because faith requires a keen sense of the imagination
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Just made a reply to one of your postings....here you go....
with some omission for the quick post....

"So nay......
Imagination is what we use to resolve contradictions.
Without it, there are no problems you can solve.
If you can't imagine the solution...how will you get there?"
 
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