Mickiel's proof of God.

[The Neo Nerd]

If it did then every viewpoint on every subject is both correct and incorrect at the same time.

I've said it before and i'll say it again mick would make a great chaote.

 

[dorsk188]

The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
`Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys...

 

[God4me]

There is up and there is down. Positive and negative, two sides to the coin, but each side proves the other side exist. There is good and evil, both oppisite ends of a spectrum, but each proves that the other exist. There is belief in God and unbelief, yet each proves that the other exist. Unbelief in God exist, and this unbelief proves that God exist, because there must be unbelief, in order for there to be belief. One is simply the other end of the other.

Atheist themselves are proof of God. Only God could have removed the sight of him, the belief in him, from a human consciousness, nothingelse is powerful enough to do that. Being asleep is one end, being awake is another, but each proves the others existance, although both are two entirely differing things. We cannot see God, hear him, understand him and just outright be for sure where he is, but we are conscious of him. Our conscious awareness of him, coupled with the Atheist denial of him, is proof that he exist. They are two different ends that show each others reality.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[1] It isn't God that has removed the sight of the atheists and stoped them believing, It is the devil, 2 Corinthians 4: 4.

[2] We can see God, Through the healings and miracles that He does.

[3] We can hear God, Jesus said, "My sheep HEAR MY VOICE", Jn 10: 27.
Also the Holy Spirit speaks to us, Jn 16: 13.

[4] We can understand God, His will. plans and ways are in the Bible.

 

[PureX]

I think I understand what you are calling god. I just don't see those things to be god I guess. This is a question that has puzzled me for a long time. Everyone who believes in god says god is love. How do we know that?

Because for most people, love transcends life. And anything that transcends life, creates life, in the sense that it gives life new meaning.

A general definition of "God" might be, "the creator and sustainer of all that exits". That being the case, anything that transcends life/existence, becomes God-like. The most common experience of this transcendence is the experience of love, and so a lot of people consider love to be a God-like attribute, or phenomena.

How do we even know love is the important thing?

To those who have experienced it, this is self-evident. Through love, we transcend ourselves.

Why do people just naturally equate god with love?

Because "God" is the mystery source and sustenance of all that exists. Anything, like love, that transcends existence, or sustains it, becomes 'God-like'.

No one can ever answer that question for me.

You have to be open to an answer, sometimes, to receive it.

I agree that love is a wonderful state to be in for the most part, but that doesn't mean there is an all loving god.

What is important is that love changes you. It helps you to become more than you are. This is what it means to transcend yourself.

I think we hope there is a being that transcends everything physical for obvious reasons, but wishing doesn't mean it's true.

It doesn't mean it's untrue, either. Love is real. Art is real. Kindness is real. Justice is real. Heroism is real. "You" are real. And there is no difference between each of these ideals, and the ideal we call "God". So God is just as real as any of these other ideals ... if you so choose.

That is why, for me, there is no god.

That's your choice. But remember that it's based on nothing.

At least not one like the Judeo-Christian one.

Theirs' is just one of many human images of "God".

 

[jam.bar]

You have humans, so then we must have a God who created them. One is proof of the other. Atheist are proof of God, as are Theist.

Peace.

Wrrroooooooonnnnng.

This means that you're saying humans are the opposite of God. I've never heard that before but ok.

Also, you're saying that athiests are proof that there is a God. By this logic, thiests are proof that there isn't a god.

 

[JMorris]

its like a 5 year old trying to explain where babies come from.........

 

[McBell]

its like a 5 year old trying to explain where babies come from.........

I would say that it is like a 5 year who has never heard anything but the stork story trying to explain where babies come from.

 

[Tiapan]

Religion is the failure of man to recognize that all is gray not black and white. When one matures and realises this, there is no need of god or religion.

Cheers

 

[freethinker44]

Oh I have gone much farther and deeper than this, one form of Life is proof that another form exist.
Conversely a lower form of consciousness proves that a higher one exist.

Peace.

This means that gods consciousness is proof that an even higher consciousness than gods exists, and an even higher consciousness of that consciousness, and so on.

I don't even think it is possible to say your logic flawed in this, to do so I might have to imply you were using or trying to use logic, but I really see none of that. This is isn't flawed logic, it isn't logic at all.

 

[cottage]

Oh I have gone much farther and deeper than this, one form of Life is proof that another form exist.
Conversely a lower form of consciousness proves that a higher one exist.

Peace.

All you are doing here is identifying two variations and are then saying one proves the other!

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Hi Cottage, you find the believers yet?

Look up ManofFaith and/or RND.

 

[cottage]

Hi Cottage, you find the believers yet?

Look up ManofFaith and/or RND.

'Manofaith'. Looked it up, and it's a Christian dating agency! Lol. I have no need of a dating agency, Omar, never mind a religious one. But thank you for your kind concern.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

'Manofaith'. Looked it up, and it's a Christian dating agency! Lol. I have no need of a dating agency, Omar, never mind a religious one. But thank you for your kind concern.

No you missed the point. :sad:Those are screen names of members here. Deeply religious members.

Those theists you were looking for.

 

[cottage]

No you missed the point. :sad:Those are screen names of members here. Deeply religious members.

Those theists you were looking for.

Looking for? (!)

 

[challupa]

Because for most people, love transcends life. And anything that transcends life, creates life, in the sense that it gives life new meaning.

A general definition of "God" might be, "the creator and sustainer of all that exits". That being the case, anything that transcends life/existence, becomes God-like. The most common experience of this transcendence is the experience of love, and so a lot of people consider love to be a God-like attribute, or phenomena.
To those who have experienced it, this is self-evident. Through love, we transcend ourselves.
Because "God" is the mystery source and sustenance of all that exists. Anything, like love, that transcends existence, or sustains it, becomes 'God-like'.
You have to be open to an answer, sometimes, to receive it.
What is important is that love changes you. It helps you to become more than you are. This is what it means to transcend yourself.
It doesn't mean it's untrue, either. Love is real. Art is real. Kindness is real. Justice is real. Heroism is real. "You" are real. And there is no difference between each of these ideals, and the ideal we call "God". So God is just as real as any of these other ideals ... if you so choose.
That's your choice. But remember that it's based on nothing. Theirs' is just one of many human images of "God".

Thank you for your answers. I agree seeing god is a choice. I also agree that love can change our perspective on things. Does love help us transcend ourselves? That would depend on our definition of "self" I guess. I see self as a multifaceted thing. I am a variety of layers each one of them being more conscious than the next. Kind of like how our bodies are made up of cells, atoms etc. All of them as important as the other in order to be a Physical human body. I am not arguing that love isn't important, I am just not seeing how the presence of love can be attributed to a god. And I understand that is my choice whether to see that love is god or not. I believe that the transcendence humans can sometimes attain is when they are able to reach a higher level of awareness and, yes, love can be the tool to do that. I think we are agreeing on many points. I just don't attribute the good that humans can transcend to, to be attributed to a god. However, I could be wrong. Been known to happen :yes:

 

[dogsgod]

There is up and there is down. Positive and negative, two sides to the coin, but each side proves the other side exist. There is good and evil, both oppisite ends of a spectrum, but each proves that the other exist. There is belief in God and unbelief, yet each proves that the other exist. Unbelief in God exist, and this unbelief proves that God exist, because there must be unbelief, in order for there to be belief. One is simply the other end of the other.

I didn't read all the posts so sorry if I repeat.

The opposite of unbelief is belief. The unbelief in God is the opposite of the belief in God. Unbelief in God does not prove anything about the existence of God, it only proves the existence of the belief in a God.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Looking for? (!)

This IS your thread - right. Or somebody steal your password.

 

[cottage]

This IS your thread - right. Or somebody steal your password.

No, certainly not my thread! In fact the premise of the thread makes no sense at all.

 

[Thales of Ga.]

Atheism is the lack of a belief in God,to aver that it is a belief is to aver that baldness is having hair!:cover:
There are atheists in foxholes! To aver otherwise is to aver that we are superficial in our non-belief and in extremity we'll resort to Him as the argument from angst maintains. This is another theistic boomerang! So, they believe,because they dread living without Him, and superficially believe in Him due to any argumentation!
We have the argument from unbelief that the presence of unbelief illustrates that He probably doesn't exist, for if He did , everyone would believe in Him.I'll expatiate on this anon @ arguments about Him.

 

[Copernicus]

Because for most people, love transcends life. And anything that transcends life, creates life, in the sense that it gives life new meaning.

You are using "create" here in a metaphorical sense. Nothing wrong with that, but remember that metaphors are analogies. They are useful for explaining concepts, not supporting conclusions in an argument.

A general definition of "God" might be, "the creator and sustainer of all that exits". That being the case, anything that transcends life/existence, becomes God-like...

Nope. You cannot draw that conclusion from your earlier metaphorical use of "create".

The most common experience of this transcendence is the experience of love, and so a lot of people consider love to be a God-like attribute, or phenomena.
To those who have experienced it, this is self-evident. Through love, we transcend ourselves.

I think that the explanation of the "God is love" claim has little to do with the notion of transcendence. Rather it is just part of the language of hyperbole that theists often use to describe a perfect being. He doesn't transcend his attributes. He personifies them.

It doesn't mean it's untrue, either. Love is real. Art is real. Kindness is real. Justice is real. Heroism is real. "You" are real. And there is no difference between each of these ideals, and the ideal we call "God". So God is just as real as any of these other ideals ... if you so choose.

You are caught up in what is known as the reification fallacy. That is, you are confusing abstractions with things that exist in the physical world. The question of whether God exists has to do with whether he exists in the same sense that the Earth exists. Ideals are not real objects in the world.