Millennials, Please Just Shut Up

[Rival]

So after the UK voted to leave the EU, the Millennials who overwhelmingly voted 'Remain' are getting their knickers in a twist because they didn't get their way. They started a petition for a Second Referendum, because, hey, if you don't get what you want then just keep on pushing until you do. These people clearly don't know what democracy is. The majority wins, and the majority voted out.

Seriously, you lost. Get over it. Lose with dignity, at least.

(Sorry, this isn't aimed at anyone on RF, I'm just annoyed by their juvenile whining).

 

[icehorse]

I have this vague intuition that many millennials don't appreciate the fragility of the lifestyle they enjoy.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That's right. Watch the victory of nativism and the balkanization of Europe with the dismissive dignity expected of a real Brit.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is more than a little hypocritical since Farage is on record as saying he would have done the exact same thing if the margin had been this way for Remain. And the young people who voted to stay in the EU are having the carpet yanked out from under their feet by the baby-boomer generation. Again. They have every right to be upset.

And the Brexit campaign is the poster child for winning ungraciously. "Who's Jo Cox?". Need I say more?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Okay, I understand venting.

But, had the vote gone the other way by the same margin, would you now be counseling the Exiters--who would be complaining that they didn't get their way (but it was so close), and that they were starting a petition for a Second Referendum (because there would be some who would be doing that)--to "Get over it. Lose with dignity, at least?"

 

[YmirGF]

Evidently, the UK is in for some fun times in the next days, weeks, months and years.

It is interesting, over here on the other side of the pond, most, if not all, of our media outlets are still trying to figure out why on earth the UK would want to leave the EU. This is especially true of the brilliant, nay, visionary, handling of their collective economies, their keen awareness of less bureaucratic red tape and their unflagging interest in the views of the average person. It is a mystery.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What happened in the UK convinces me even more that some state-related decisions and laws should just not be put up for popular vote and should instead be handled only by a body of experts and intellectuals, like Supreme Court justices.

And yes, I'm completely serious.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

In a real democracy, no single vote should ever be considered the end of the debate on a subject. Certainly, people may tire of hearing about an issue after a time, but in a free society, those who are in the minority, those who lose the vote in a referendum, still get to talk about their position, still get to advocate for their position, and hope that in the future they get to have their position seriously considered again. That's the nature of democracy.

 

[Rival]

Okay, I understand venting.

But, had the vote gone the other way by the same margin, would you now be counseling the Exiters--who would be complaining that they didn't get their way (but it was so close), and that they were starting a petition for a Second Referendum (because there would be some who would be doing that)--to "Get over it. Lose with dignity, at least?"

I wouldn't have cared. I was prepared for a 'remain' vote, actually. Nobody can predict where this will lead, least of all me. I would have not moaned and whined and posted my misery all over twitter, disregarding my nationality and saying I'm a 'Brit not a European'. They have taken their whining too far.

 

[Debater Slayer]

In a real democracy, no single vote should ever be considered the end of the debate on a subject. Certainly, people may tire of hearing about an issue after a time, but in a free society, those who are in the minority, those who lose the vote in a referendum, still get to talk about their position, still get to advocate for their position, and hope that in the future they get to have their position seriously considered again. That's the nature of democracy.

The fact that 51% is considered a "majority" for all intents and purposes in democracies seems to me to indicate just how much of a failure the system can be. When you can have 49% of people's votes get discarded like they're nothing just because of a 1% difference, you know something is wrong with the system.

 

[Rival]

This is more than a little hypocritical since Farage is on record as saying he would have done the exact same thing if the margin had been this way for Remain. And the young people who voted to stay in the EU are having the carpet yanked out from under their feet by the baby-boomer generation. Again. They have every right to be upset.

And the Brexit campaign is the poster child for winning ungraciously. "Who's Jo Cox?". Need I say more?

Just because I voted Leave doesn't mean I worship Farage.

 

[Altfish]

As a Baby Boomer who voted Remain I have great sympathy with the Millenniums.
If I'm lucky I'll have to suffer this mess for 25-years; my son and daughter have 50+ years of isolation. Their age group voted in a majority to Remain; why should they not be livid with us crinklies?

 

[YmirGF]

What happened in the UK convinces me even more that some state-related decisions and laws should just not be put up for popular vote and should instead be handled only by a body of experts and intellectuals, like Supreme Court justices.

And yes, I'm completely serious.

So, you are good with a benevolent dictatorship?

 

[Debater Slayer]

So, you are good with a benevolent dictatorship?

With certain constraints, yes, definitely.

 

[Altfish]

Just because I voted Leave doesn't mean I worship Farage.

Where are Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, etc. are in these days of turmoil?

 

[YmirGF]

With certain constraints, yes, definitely.

I find that --- frightening....

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

The fact that 51% is considered a "majority" for all intents and purposes in democracies seems to me to indicate just how much of a failure the system can be. When you can have 49% of people's votes get discarded like they're nothing just because of a 1% difference, you know something is wrong with the system.

Yeah, that's why most modern democracies are mostly representational, with voters electing officials to actually handle the decision making of the nation. In the US at least, it's primarily a two-party system, so it can be decided by 50 percent plus one vote; in most other modern democracies, there is some effort to ensure that minority parties get some representation. But a yes/no referendum in any system does have the issue you raise.

 

[Laika]

So after the UK voted to leave the EU, the Millennials who overwhelmingly voted 'Remain' are getting their knickers all in a twist because they didn't get their way. They started a petition for a Second Referendum, because, hey, if you don't get what you want then just keep on pushing until you do. These people clearly don't know what democracy is. The majority wins, and the majority voted out.

Seriously, you lost. Get over it. Lose with dignity, at least.

(Sorry, this isn't aimed at anyone on RF, I'm just annoyed by their juvenile whining).

It is extremely unlikely there would be a second referendum and I have to agree this is really throwing a tantrum (allowing with a petition demanding independence for London from the UK).

I took my frustration out yesterday by going out for the day, buying myself some new boots and just eating junk food. Something practical to take my mind off it. I knew that it was going to be bad but I really don't have any control over it. I was never wildly enthusiastic about voting remain (or leave for that matter) so either way I was part of a decision that I couldn't really connect with. Either way the ruling class was going to win so *shrugs*.

What happened in the UK convinces me even more that some state-related decisions and laws should just not be put up for popular vote and should instead be handled only by a body of experts and intellectuals, like Supreme Court justices.

And yes, I'm completely serious.

the referendum probably shouldn't have happened at all. We, the British people, were systematically misinformed from start to finish and when they ran out of things to discuss they used fear and hate to get us to vote for positions we didn't understand. It's a lesson in how not to run a democracy at least.

Do you feel comfortable with one party states if they were composed of experts?

 

[Rival]

Where are Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, etc. are in these days of turmoil?

God knows, lol.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I find that --- frightening....

I understand. That largely depends on what you mean by "dictatorship," though. For example, I'm absolutely in favor of having presidents chosen by popular vote. Same for parliament members. But supreme court justices, for example? No. I would also make sure that the constitution was very difficult to modify through popular vote.

The system of a constitutional republic is pretty good, in my opinion. It's just that in the case of a referendum like Brexit, I wouldn't put it up to popular vote and would instead have it decided by a chosen body of economists and other experts. Certainly not the public when it still includes many people who are still looking up "What is the EU?"