Millions of birds killed

[Politesse]

I don't see this as a crazy thing to question. Not that I think the bird flu isn't real. But these kinds of purges often do hit small farmers hard while the big producers somehow get by without repercussions... see this all the time in my area. I guess you could call it a conspiracy, if it's a conspiracy every time money talks.

 

[BSM1]

To me, the real tragedy here is the double standard for other-than-human persons. We'd bend over backwards, compromising both safety and going to extraordinary expense, to save human persons. But not other-than-human persons. In the face of such news, few probably even care that these creatures are dying, except for it hurting human interests. Sad.

Other-than-human persons?? For a minute there I thought you were talking about my in-laws.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

No, people who draw outlandish conclusions in the absence of any evidence are conspiracy theorists. Sorry, but I'm detecting a significant absence of evidence.

I just listened to a podcast about conspiracy theorists today from a former conspiracy theorist. You'd probably enjoy it, actually, since the guy who does the podcast is an occultist of sorts. It's episode 21 right here: The Infinite and the Beyond

Of course even when they do provide some evidence such as with 9/11 it's still rejected. And really? Governments betraying the people is such an outlandish idea? It's all over in history so I don't know why people think the idea is implausible.

It seems like nothing outside of undeniable proof would convince you but even then you wouldn't accept it because you wouldn't want to accept it.

 

[Quintessence]

Of course even when they do provide some evidence such as with 9/11 it's still rejected. And really? Governments betraying the people is such an outlandish idea? It's all over in history so I don't know why people think the idea is implausible.

I don't think "betrayal" by governments is implausible. I think the claim you are making in this specific thread is entirely implausible because no evidence has been presented to make me conclude otherwise, and an awful lot of common knowledge and common sense stacks against it.

It seems like nothing outside of undeniable proof would convince you but even then you wouldn't accept it because you wouldn't want to accept it.

It seems you want to believe that I will refuse to listen to what you have to say. That is telling, I think, considering I did not suggest anything of the sort. If you can actually provide substance behind your accusations here, I can and will listen to it. So far, you've presented nothing other than baseless speculations. Start by showing me which farms are engaging in these unethical cullings. Prove to me that small farms (which are pretty darned rare, honestly) are being disproportionately targeted, and not the far more common industrial-scale operations that exist throughout my area. From there, maybe we can move forward.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I don't think "betrayal" by governments is implausible. I think the claim you are making in this specific thread is entirely implausible because no evidence has been presented to make me conclude otherwise, and an awful lot of common knowledge and common sense stacks against it.



It seems you want to believe that I will refuse to listen to what you have to say. That is telling, I think, considering I did not suggest anything of the sort. If you can actually provide substance behind your accusations here, I can and will listen to it. So far, you've presented nothing other than baseless speculations. Start by showing me which farms are engaging in these unethical cullings. Prove to me that small farms (which are pretty darned rare, honestly) are being disproportionately targeted, and not the far more common industrial-scale operations that exist throughout my area. From there, maybe we can move forward.

Bakers Green Acres. Look that up. That was when they talked of killing some pigs, due to a similar event. It's well known that governments can get corrupt especially the bigger they are. It's common sense to get rid of the small farms. You have to think like a totalitarian. If you wanted total control, you don't want people to be self sufficient, that can take care of themselves. You need to wipe out other competition and means of which people could use to sustain them selves sufficiently. You want everyone to depend on you and your farms and your food.

Why don't you check out what Stalin did when he was wiping out smaller farms. He did it in a much brutal fashion of course but look at that and you'll see what I mean. Also notice how bigger farms don't get targeted as often? They still have lots of money and resources but the smaller farms get the short end of the stick. It's not difficult to see why.

 

[Quintessence]

@Theweirdtophat , I'm not interested in rhetoric and anecdotes, I'm interested in data.

Also, I hate to point this out, but the removal of poultry from the American diet really doesn't compromise our self-sufficiency. At all. It means we don't get chicken. Big deal. You want an example of reduction of self-sufficiency? Look at the entire industrialization of Western culture. The migration of people off farms and the shrinking population of people who live anything resembling a self-sufficient lifestyle due to advances in technology. Look at the dependence on fossil fuels for all of this. We already lack self-sufficiency, dude. Almost none of us are farmers!

 

[Theweirdtophat]

@Theweirdtophat , I'm not interested in rhetoric and anecdotes, I'm interested in data.

Also, I hate to point this out, but the removal of poultry from the American diet really doesn't compromise our self-sufficiency. At all. It means we don't get chicken. Big deal. You want an example of reduction of self-sufficiency? Look at the entire industrialization of Western culture. The migration of people off farms and the shrinking population of people who live anything resembling a self-sufficient lifestyle due to advances in technology. Look at the dependence on fossil fuels for all of this. We already lack self-sufficiency, dude. Almost none of us are farmers!

That' entirely my point...we ARE getting less self sufficient and getting rid of the small farms is part of it. I think you're seriously underestimating the gravity of the situation here. It IS a big deal. They haven't done it with JUST poultry, they have done it with pigs, cows ect. It isn't just in America either. Industrialization, epidemics, ect, is all a part of the big picture here.

 

[Sleeppy]

...

I am not about to shed a single tear for dead birds. We're humans. If this were a mass culling of dogs or elephants or seals or other animals capable of abstract thought, I might agree with you. But these were birds. Birds that could've started an epidemic.

Birds are capable of abstract thought.. But that's kind of an interesting prerequisite for compassion.

 

[Quintessence]

That' entirely my point...we ARE getting less self sufficient and getting rid of the small farms is part of it. I think you're seriously underestimating the gravity of the situation here. It IS a big deal. They haven't done it with JUST poultry, they have done it with pigs, cows ect. It isn't just in America either. Industrialization, epidemics, ect, is all a part of the big picture here.

I'm with you up until you start claiming there's some "they." There's no "they" there's we. Industrialization and the shift to modern civilization as we know it wasn't directed by some "them" it was done by us. We moved away from self-sufficient ways of life. And, in many parts of the country we are moving back towards it. I really don't see anything conspiratorial going on here; it's perfectly normal and ordinary shifts and sways of human cultures. I'd still suggest you listen to that podcast. Not just that episode, but others too. You'd probably like it.

 

[Stevicus]

That' entirely my point...we ARE getting less self sufficient and getting rid of the small farms is part of it. I think you're seriously underestimating the gravity of the situation here. It IS a big deal. They haven't done it with JUST poultry, they have done it with pigs, cows ect. It isn't just in America either. Industrialization, epidemics, ect, is all a part of the big picture here.

I would agree that there are some concerns about big business gobbling up small business, whether it's the family farm or various mom-and-pop enterprises around the country. That's been going on for quite some time now, and a lot of people have lamented how the big corporations are squeezing out the little guy.

As for all those millions of dead birds, I don't know if they had bird flu or not. Even if they didn't have bird flu, they would have eventually ended up on someone's plate anyway. I don't think one has anything to do with the other, though. If they want take over the small farms, that's one thing, but they could do that just as easily without killing millions of healthy birds. They must have had a reason for doing that, and they're the ones losing money and getting negative press for it. You mentioned Stalin earlier, but not even he would have slaughtered healthy livestock. He would have just killed the people, which he did a lot of.

I have to admit that part of me is slightly worried about this. When I saw the thread title "Millions of birds killed," I thought of the Alfred Hitchcock movie The Birds, which I saw at an early age. What if the birds all band together for revenge? Then we'd really be up the creek.

 

[Flankerl]

This smells to me.

Yeah bird flu is like totally made up. Its not like you can go to a random market in south east Asia, buy a chicken and find some bird flu string in it.

No no no. Its the man.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's threads like this that makes one question Intelligent Design.

 

[freethinker44]

My father-in-law ran a dairy farm for almost 40 years, and losing a herd to disease is common. And they're all insured so he was never at risk of losing his farm over it. He just cashes the insurance check and buys more cows. In the ten years I've known him, this happened twice. Once to fire and once to disease, but he only lost about two thirds of the herd when they got sick. It's really not that big of a deal, at least not "government conspiracy" level.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Yeah bird flu is like totally made up. Its not like you can go to a random market in south east Asia, buy a chicken and find some bird flu string in it.

No no no. Its the man.

I never said bird flu itself is made up, so let's not exaggerate. They say some had bird flu, but anyone can say that. How do we know any of those birds were infected? They did a similar thing for cows when they talked about foot-mouth disease. These were unnecessary deaths. AND more often than not the government doesn't even compensate for their losses. And if you honestly think that some governments would never do this, you haven't read enough history.

It's threads like this that makes one question Intelligent Design.

And it's comments like this that make me wonder why some people are still on this forum.