Miracles: Myth or Fact

[Vendetta]

Let me put it this way, I'm using this definition of miracle.

miracle |ˈmirikəl|
noun
a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency

I think neither of those cases follow that definition.

How so? Do you expect sprinkles of light to follow someone's recovery? I need s detailed statement instead of "its not true."

 

[Warren Clark]

No, it really isn't. Yes, if I said that Jesus did miracles, that would be misleading. When I qualify that statement, by saying that in the perspective of his audience, he did miracles, that is not misleading. That is how it is.

However no one ever says "In the percpective of his audience, He performed miracles".
It is always said, "He performed miracles".

So I agree with what you are trying to say, but the reality is no pastor or Christian I have ever encountered has ever worded it the way you have.
Many of the Christians I know truly believe that Jesus walked on water and rose the sick from the dead with nothing but the "blessing of God".

 

[Warren Clark]

Not really. What time period are you talking about when an illusionist did an effect that it was considered magic? Because I can't think of a time period that has ever been true. At least not more true then it is today.

It wasn't until the mid-1700's until magic lost its mysteriousness.
The term illusion in place of magic gained its popularity with Harry Houdini in the late 1800's - early 1900's.

 

[sojourner]

but the reality is no pastor or Christian I have ever encountered has ever worded it the way you have.

Your reality is limited.

 

[fallingblood]

It wasn't until the mid-1700's until magic lost its mysteriousness.
The term illusion in place of magic gained its popularity with Harry Houdini in the late 1800's - early 1900's.

It was even before that. Before Houdini, there were other greats, really going back to Robert-Houdin at least. Even back to the 1400's one can see the same being true with street magicians.

However, I still wouldn't say that magic lost its mysteriousness. Even today, with people such as David Blaine and Criss Angel, just in the United States (Derren Brown in the UK), magic still has its mystery side. It has transformed from the stage illusionist, to the street magician, doing street magic.

 

[fallingblood]

However no one ever says "In the percpective of his audience, He performed miracles".
It is always said, "He performed miracles".

So I agree with what you are trying to say, but the reality is no pastor or Christian I have ever encountered has ever worded it the way you have.
Many of the Christians I know truly believe that Jesus walked on water and rose the sick from the dead with nothing but the "blessing of God".

We're not talking about what other Christians say though. That hasn't been the point that was made. I have always made my point clear, by specifying that it was in the perspective of the audience that miracles occurred.

 

[fallingblood]

[youtube]_-agl0pOQfs[/youtube]

Just thought I'd add it.

 

[Warren Clark]

Only if you are using a very specific definition of miracle. Saying that some people thought that what they saw were miracles is not misleading. It is stating what people thought they say.

I guess I can compromise on that...

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Do you believe in miracles, particularly those attributed to Jesus? What is it that separates the miracles of Jesus from those that appear in any other mythology?

Absolutely. Miracles happen everyday. Isn't the fact that this ball of mass floating in space that we live on that produces life and is just in perfect harmony to allow good living for all a miracle in of itself?

 

[Warren Clark]

Absolutely. Miracles happen everyday. Isn't the fact that this ball of mass floating in space that we live on that produces life and is just in perfect harmony to allow good living for all a miracle in of itself?

From a specific standard of what constitutes a miracle sure.
But science has a theory that explains why the ball is floating.
But nothing is impossible. So long the conditions are right, anything can happen.
There is a strong chance there is another floating ball with life somewhere out there.
I mean space is infinite and we can only see so much with our resources.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

From a specific standard of what constitutes a miracle sure.
But science has a theory that explains why the ball is floating.
But nothing is impossible. So long the conditions are right, anything can happen.
There is a strong chance there is another floating ball with life somewhere out there.
I mean space is infinite and we can only see so much with our resources.

Very true, but in time everything can be explained by science. The problem is some miracles that occur are beyond the minds of scientists and their means of experimenting. People can levitate and materialize things out thin air. These types of miracles are explainable but people other than the Saints who can produce them don't understand how. There are subtle realms just beyond this material realm that allow for such miracles to take place.

 

[Warren Clark]

Very true, but in time everything can be explained by science. The problem is some miracles that occur are beyond the minds of scientists and their means of experimenting. People can levitate and materialize things out thin air. These types of miracles are explainable but people other than the Saints who can produce them don't understand how. There are subtle realms just beyond this material realm that allow for such miracles to take place.

Who can levitate things? Who can form something out of nothing?

Maybe an illusionist, but it would only be an illusion.
Have you seen any of Criss Angel's illusions?
Its a miracle, no its explainable. The illusionist just refuses to explain it.

 

[Revoltingest]

A miracle....
Kansas golfers hit consecutive holes-in-one on same hole in Hesston | Wichita Eagle

Well....maybe just highly improbable.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Who can levitate things? Who can form something out of nothing?

Maybe an illusionist, but it would only be an illusion.
Have you seen any of Criss Angel's illusions?
Its a miracle, no its explainable. The illusionist just refuses to explain it.

Ever heard of Satya Sai Baba? He really does materialize things. Many saints can levitate and do these things. They are not illusionists whether you want to believe that or not is up to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ever heard of Satya Sai Baba? He really does materialize things. Many saints can levitate and do these things. They are not illusionists whether you want to believe that or not is up to you.

What astounding things have you seen him do?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Ever heard of Satya Sai Baba? He really does materialize things. Many saints can levitate and do these things. They are not illusionists whether you want to believe that or not is up to you.

Actually, it isn't up to me. I have a complete inability to believe things for which no actual evidence exists.

 

[Warren Clark]

Ever heard of Satya Sai Baba? He really does materialize things. Many saints can levitate and do these things. They are not illusionists whether you want to believe that or not is up to you.

Illusions. Unless you can say for yourself as his apprentice or whatever that it there was no trick and it was supernatural...

Criss Angel walked on water, levitated, materialized items, etc.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

What astounding things have you seen him do?

Materialize anything you can think of.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Actually, it isn't up to me. I have a complete inability to believe things for which no actual evidence exists.

That's fine.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

That's fine.

Thanks for endorsing my reality-based perspective.