Miracles

[Kenny]

Really? I do not believe you -- at all.

Proof? 40,000 different and distinct flavors of Christianity alone. If there really were "two way communication" as you claim?

There would only be the one (1) religion.... unless... god says vastly **different** things to each person?

What sort of chaos would THAT create?

Oh! More than 40,000 different incarnations of chaos, that's what!

In what way are they different?

Well... think of it this way... you have a different view too... is it because there has been a two way communication?

You don't have to believe me and I am fine with that.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I am happy to report that your viewpoint doesn't change mine or God's

Questions are good if you ask like Mary and they are bad if you ask like Zacharias.

Of course! Nothing anyone can say, no piece of fact anyone produces, will change your mind.

Meanwhile, if you can produce evidence and/or facts? You can change mine.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

In what way are they different?

Well... think of it this way... you have a different view too... is it because there has been a two way communication?

You don't have to believe me and I am fine with that.

In varied and fatal ways-- which is why they each claim to be the One True Version, and that none of the others qualify.

Many are so antagonistic to other versions, that wars were fought-- or are are you entirely unfamiliar with Norther Ireland?

 

[Kenny]

Of course! Nothing anyone can say, no piece of fact anyone produces, will change your mind.

Meanwhile, if you can produce evidence and/or facts? You can change mine.

Interesting.... but realistic?

If someone says, "I prayed and a miracle happened", wouldn't you answer "Coincidence and prayer doesn't work".

If I gave you an example of God speaking to me, would you believe it? (Please be honest)

And if not, then would you explain just what you mean by facts?

I remember staring into a Tom Collins at a bar appropriately named Mac's Zoo Room and wondering where are all the miracles that I had heard about in the Bible. Was I looking at (or in) the wrong place? Why do so many more miracles happen now?

 

[Kenny]

In varied and fatal ways-- which is why they each claim to be the One True Version, and that none of the others qualify.

Many are so antagonistic to other versions, that wars were fought-- or are are you entirely unfamiliar with Norther Ireland?

That isn't so hard, if you look. When a Priest would say, "Kill those prostestants" (or visa versa) - where did Jesus say that? Was it the version? Or was it something people ADDED to any version?

 

[metis]

That isn't so hard, if you look. When a Priest would say, "Kill those prostestants"...

Are those the ones with prostates, by chance?

 

[Kenny]

Are those the ones with prostates, by chance?

I'd change it... but, , you have already quoted it!

 

[viole]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

Funny that all such "miracles" involve internal medicine, usually. Something we cannot really see with our own eyes.

You see cancers disappear, but you never see an amputee grow a new arm. People with down syndrome stay with their down syndrome. People with other genetic diseases, stay with that genetic disease. Siamese twins do not magically split into two healthy individuals. No matter how much you wear your knees out by praying.

But if you have a headache, a toothache, a cancer, hay fever, or some other internal problem, then God might operate on it, if you pray to Him. And with Him I mean, the God of the Bible, Allah, some of the thousands Hindu Gods, etc. All those religions report such amazing events.

It really looks like all those Gods like to perform miracles only when they could still be no miracles, after all. Or are at least inconclusive. Or not as conclusive as a fresh new limb.

Why is that, in your opinion? Maybe They do not want to mess around with our free will to still be skeptical about Them and such?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Interesting.... but realistic?

Yes. But your worldview is Authority-Driven, so I can see how you would not understand mine, which isn't.

If someone says, "I prayed and a miracle happened", wouldn't you answer "Coincidence and prayer doesn't work".

If that was 100% of the information I had? Their "testimony" is automatically invalid, as they are highly biased. If they presented some objective evidence? One that did not rely on human's testimony?

Then I would listen, and I might change my mind-- but only then.

If I gave you an example of God speaking to me, would you believe it? (Please be honest)

Absolutely not! You are an unreliable "witness". You have An Agenda. You simply cannot be trusted to be Honest-- especially not to yourself

And if not, then would you explain just what you mean by facts?

Unadulterated photographs? Raw footage on film? Raw (unedited) sound footage? Multiple random witnesses, few of whom believe in magic/gods?

Direct observation?

I remember staring into a Tom Collins at a bar appropriately named Mac's Zoo Room and wondering where are all the miracles that I had heard about in the Bible. Was I looking at (or in) the wrong place? Why do so many more miracles happen now?

What makes you so certain that they are "miracles" and not ordinary coincidences?

Never forget: People only remember what they perceive as IMPORTANT! STUPENDOUS!

Or? What feeds into what they WISH were true.

They conveniently forget the 1 million times there were no "miracles".... because those are very forgettable non-events.

Finally: You keep assuming that the alleged "miracles" in the bible really happened..... !

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That isn't so hard, if you look. When a Priest would say, "Kill those prostestants" (or visa versa) - where did Jesus say that? Was it the version? Or was it something people ADDED to any version?

Matthew 10, 34 'I come not to bring peace, but with a sword'.

 

[Kenny]

Yes. But your worldview is Authority-Driven, so I can see how you would not understand mine, which isn't.

If that was 100% of the information I had? Their "testimony" is automatically invalid, as they are highly biased. If they presented some objective evidence? One that did not rely on human's testimony?

Then I would listen, and I might change my mind-- but only then.

Absolutely not! You are an unreliable "witness". You have An Agenda. You simply cannot be trusted to be Honest-- especially not to yourself

Unadulterated photographs? Raw footage on film? Raw (unedited) sound footage? Multiple random witnesses, few of whom believe in magic/gods?

Direct observation?

What makes you so certain that they are "miracles" and not ordinary coincidences?

Never forget: People only remember what they perceive as IMPORTANT! STUPENDOUS!

Or? What feeds into what they WISH were true.

They conveniently forget the 1 million times there were no "miracles".... because those are very forgettable non-events.

Finally: You keep assuming that the alleged "miracles" in the bible really happened..... !

Eliminating all the argumentative points...



http://www.sgbcmodesto.com/Audio/Non...tVisualExt=jpg

The actual interview starts around the 3 minute mark and the recording of his voice being restored "live" at the 11:40 mark.

 

[Kenny]

Matthew 10, 34 'I come not to bring peace, but with a sword'.

No... Remember, he said to Peter... put away the sword.

John Gill:
Matthew 10:34

Think not ye that I am come to send peace on earth
The Jews had a notion of great outward peace and prosperity in the days of the Messiah; which was grounded on several prophecies of the Old Testament, not rightly understood by them; and the disciples of Christ had imbibed the same notion: wherefore our Lord thought fit to let them know the contrary; and that they must not expect outward ease and quiet, and worldly tranquillity would attend their ministry; for though he came to be a peace maker between God and sinners, by the blood of his cross; and was both the author and donor of spiritual peace to his people; and the Gospel he brought with him, and sent them to preach, was the Gospel of peace; which, accompanied with his power, would produce peace in the consciences of men, and be the means of cultivating and maintaining peace among the saints; yet "peace on earth" in a temporal sense, whether in the world in general, or in Judea in particular, must not be expected as the consequence of his coming; so far from it, that he subjoins,

I came, not to send peace, but a sword.
By the "sword" may be meant the Gospel, which is the means of dividing and separating the people of Christ from the men of the world, and from their principles and practices, and one relation from another; as also of divisions, discords, and persecutions arising from it: not that it was the intention and design of Christ, in coming into the world, to foment and encourage such things; but this, through the malice and wickedness of men, was eventually the effect and consequence of his coming; see ( Luke 12:51 ) where, instead of a "sword", it is "division"; because the sword divides asunder, as does the sword of the Spirit, the word of God.

Scofield:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

peace

Cf. John 14:27 . Peace is spoken of in Scripture in three ways:

(1) "Peace with God" Romans 5:1 this is the work of Christ into which the individual enters by faith ; Ephesians 2:14-17 ; Romans 5:1 .

(2) "The peace of God" Philippians 4:7 inward peace, the state of soul of that believer who, having entered into peace with God through faith in Christ, has also committed to God through prayer and supplication with thanksgiving all his anxieties ; Luke 7:50 ; Philippians 4:6 .

(3) Peace "on earth" Luke 2:14 ; Psalms 72:7 ; 85:10 ; Isaiah 9:6 Isaiah 9:7 ; 11:1-12 the universal prevalency of peace in the earth under the kingdom. Matthew 10:34 was Christ's warning that the truth which He was proclaiming would not bring in the kingdom age of peace, but conflict rather. John 14:27 .


Every reference has nothing to do with hating your enemy but the results of believing the gospel.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It would be SUCH goodness, of such a magnitude that nobody could possibly question the Divinity of the Good.
But.
.... that never happens. Ever. Why?

The coming ' magnitude ' of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is that nobody could possibly question the Divinity of the Good.
I say ' magnitude ' because the saying of ' Peace and Security ' is going to be on a grand scale.
No body will be able to question God's goodness toward righteous mankind.
True, that proclaiming magnitude about 'Peace and Security ' has Not yet happened, but it will.
As it is written, so it shall be.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew 10:34 'I come not to bring peace, but with a sword'.

By content we can read that Jesus was Not talking about a literal sword as he was at Matthew 26:52; Rev. 13:10.

 

[Milton Platt]

Guys, let's see if my beliefs are of any use to you to clarify why God helps some people and not others...

I believe a Universal God, if He exists, is totally indifferent to us puny humans. He (although assigning "Him" a gender is probably ridiculous) is more busy with great tasks as the spin of galaxies, the orbits of planets and the making of new suns... He doesn't care if you suffer because of testicles cancer or you burn slowly alive in a fire.

What happens in our lives is the result of the state of our minds. The Buddha said it. If only that would be taught at schools... but it's not. So the result is people looking for a God as the responsible for their lives and that's a big mistake. It all comes down to ourselves.

I do believe though that there are compassionate superior beings in other levels/planes/dimensions of the Universe who are willing to help us, only if we call them. And the reason why we must give them energy (e.g. candles) and repeat prayers or mantras to them is because we must open our minds to get their help. We must even open our minds for them to help them change our minds! If we don't change our mind, we don't change our lives. Notice most mantras, prayers and affirmations are repeated. That is to get them into our subconscious minds.

If we have in our minds the ideas of a complex of inferiority or punishment, we will be continually underestimated and suffer the most horrible punishments; because those ideas become manifest in our lives!

That's why "God" didn't care about what Nazis did. Some Jews even thought they were getting what they deserved because they were "sinners". And "I'm a sinner who deserves to be punished" is a horrible concept to have in your mind!

So it's always the victim's fault? Yes and no. Yes, because the victim didn't make any effort to change his or her mind. And no, because the victim was never taught that he or she had to change his mind in the first place.

That's why the Elites that ruled this World for thousands of years have most of the time, hidden occult knowledge. Because they want our lives to go on in misery, enslaved by them. That "occult knowledge" is nothing else than the methods to improve our own minds. Elites just take advantage of the sorry state of our minds; not considering that their minds, although more illuminated than ours, are still not fully awakened of course.

I would have to categorically reject this assertion: "What happens in our lives is the result of the state of our minds".
Not everything that happens in one's life is the result of the state of our minds. Sure, we cause some events by our actions, but explain how our minds cause us to be caught in a Hurricane, or Tsumnami, for instance. Explain how our minds cause us to be involved in an earthquake, or to contract a head cold. So that statement needs qualification.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The coming ' magnitude ' of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is that nobody could possibly question the Divinity of the Good.
I say ' magnitude ' because the saying of ' Peace and Security ' is going to be on a grand scale.
No body will be able to question God's goodness toward righteous mankind.
True, that proclaiming magnitude about 'Peace and Security ' has Not yet happened, but it will.
As it is written, so it shall be.

I ask for "Divine Good" and you quote me a Bronze Age Book Of Evil instead?

*sigh*

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

By content we can read that Jesus was Not talking about a literal sword as he was at Matthew 26:52; Rev. 13:10.

Says WHO? YOU?

Your opinion is hardly worthy of such things. I can read-- and it's pretty clear to me that Jesus meant a sword to smite his enemies.

But I was expecting some sort of "apology" as to why the bible is evil (and makes no sense) and I was not disappointed.

 

[Kenny]

I ask for "Divine Good" and you quote me a Bronze Age Book Of Evil instead?

*sigh*

did you have a comment on that radio "miracle" that I cited?