Misalignment and Disunity

[Bird123]

If I feel both misaligned and disunited with the world — usually as a consequence of suffering — then it is natural to conclude that my feeling misaligned is a result of being disunited with the world.

However, if I recognize that the feeling of misalignment has persisted even when I’ve been united with the world, then to seek truth means that I must consider decoupling general alignment with alignment with the world. At least from the known world.

At this point, the truth seeker must battle the doubts that the desire for alignment can be fulfilled or is even valid. They must choose to either identify with the desire for alignment fulfillment or unity with the world. The default, downstream choice is unity with the world.

As a result, the vast majority of people are coping with the unfulfilled desire for alignment through some combination of denial, suppression, or short term relief. This is true for the vast majority of both atheists and theists.

You are aligned and unified with this world and do not even realize it. You are among the mosaic of all those in this world. How could a masterpiece ever exist if all the pieces were exactly the same? Bland is not what life is about.

Start with yourself by taking a few steps back. How is your existence changing the world and those around you? You see it has never ever been a me. It is a We!!

Each person is capable of so much more than they realize. Instead of leading with those random feelings, lead with that logical, rational half. Look around you. Now see. What can you chose to do that will make everything better?

When you make it only about me, loneliness will set in. When you make it about WE, Your input and actions along with those of others builds the Spiritual connections that will bring meaning and accomplishment along the journey.

You will always be aligned and connected. On the other hand, you can choose to punish, isolate, and hurt yourself trying to avoid interaction, then trying to analyze the pain. Useless energy spent. You just as well jump in and start swimming. You will be much happier than avoiding the inevitable.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Treasure Hunter]

You are aligned and unified with this world and do not even realize it. You are among the mosaic of all those in this world. How could a masterpiece ever exist if all the pieces were exactly the same? Bland is not what life is about.

Start with yourself by taking a few steps back. How is your existence changing the world and those around you? You see it has never ever been a me. It is a We!!

Each person is capable of so much more than they realize. Instead of leading with those random feelings, lead with that logical, rational half. Look around you. Now see. What can you chose to do that will make everything better?

When you make it only about me, loneliness will set in. When you make it about WE, Your input and actions along with those of others builds the Spiritual connections that will bring meaning and accomplishment along the journey.

You will always be aligned and connected. On the other hand, you can choose to punish, isolate, and hurt yourself trying to avoid interaction, then trying to analyze the pain. Useless energy spent. You just as well jump in and start swimming. You will be much happier than avoiding the inevitable.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Do we identify with the desire for alignment located in the body or with the thoughts located in the head? I say the former and you seem to affirm the latter.

I would claim about your position that the desire has to first be suppressed and our rationalizations are only true for a limited duration of time. After that, we are required to self deceive and distort since the desire can no longer be fully suppressed.

Still, I agree there is truth in your view, but fulfillment across time is a higher truth. Tradeoffs: either sacrifice in the immediate for the future or sacrifice the future for the immediate.

 

[Ostronomos]

If I feel both misaligned and disunited with the world — usually as a consequence of suffering — then it is natural to conclude that my feeling misaligned is a result of being disunited with the world.

However, if I recognize that the feeling of misalignment has persisted even when I’ve been united with the world, then to seek truth means that I must consider decoupling general alignment with alignment with the world. At least from the known world.

At this point, the truth seeker must battle the doubts that the desire for alignment can be fulfilled or is even valid. They must choose to either identify with the desire for alignment fulfillment or unity with the world. The default, downstream choice is unity with the world.

As a result, the vast majority of people are coping with the unfulfilled desire for alignment through some combination of denial, suppression, or short term relief. This is true for the vast majority of both atheists and theists.

Which comes first, alignment with the world or unity?

The uncontrollable desire for suffering may cause misalignment, but a person can still feel unity.

Chew on that one.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

If I feel both misaligned and disunited with the world — usually as a consequence of suffering — then it is natural to conclude that my feeling misaligned is a result of being disunited with the world.

However, if I recognize that the feeling of misalignment has persisted even when I’ve been united with the world, then to seek truth means that I must consider decoupling general alignment with alignment with the world. At least from the known world.

At this point, the truth seeker must battle the doubts that the desire for alignment can be fulfilled or is even valid. They must choose to either identify with the desire for alignment fulfillment or unity with the world. The default, downstream choice is unity with the world.

As a result, the vast majority of people are coping with the unfulfilled desire for alignment through some combination of denial, suppression, or short term relief. This is true for the vast majority of both atheists and theists.

I would say that feeling misaligned with the current state of things is a blessed trait of sanity! Surely, you’d not wish to feel “in alignment” with the madness that we live in?

Yet, whether you take a stand for/against things or not, you are regardless very much inevitably united with whatever is.

We are All both the premise for and consequence of what is. They who find what they seek, will know this and shall clearly see that there is absolutely no way of escaping that.

Finding faith does not change this predicament of ours, but it does provide one thing that offers the sort of harmony and sense of inner peace that a seeker so often longs for: faith gives you trust. In life and in what comes. Even trust in one’s sense of misalignment.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Most of you who have responded seem familiar with the feeling of misalignment and the desire to be aligned with ultimate reality. I’m curious if you guys are able to recognize that this feeling arises in the body rather than in the head via thought?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

How much value is there in truth seeking when you are in misalignment with ultimate reality?
Would you agree that the alignment problem between the human individual and ultimate reality is foundational to truth seeking?
If so, would it then follow that denying or suppressing the feeling of being misaligned is a death sentence to truth seeking?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

How much value is there in truth seeking when you are in misalignment with ultimate reality?

I feel that it is difficult to comment meaningfully on something quite so vague.

Could you describe what it is that you have concluded to be [an/the] “ultimate reality”?

And what about that “ultimate reality” it is that you feel misaligned with…

Also, what sort of “value” is it that you would like your seeking to result in?


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[osgart]

How much value is there in truth seeking when you are in misalignment with ultimate reality?
Would you agree that the alignment problem between the human individual and ultimate reality is foundational to truth seeking?
If so, would it then follow that denying or suppressing the feeling of being misaligned is a death sentence to truth seeking?

There is a chance that ultimate reality has no grande purpose and no significant meaning to it. If life is fleeting and absurd, or there is great significance to it, who can tell? For me truth is an ideal, transcendent thing and not necessarily aligned with reality.

If ultimate reality is evolution, and also mind from mindless matter then life is only going to be what you make of it. Imagination is part of transcendence, to rise above the given reality. Without imagination life would be miserable. Humans impose their imagination on reality to make better of life for humanity. For me it's best to have one foot in actuality, and one foot in the possibilities of imagination as it pertains to actuality.

If God then the possibilities are endless.
If nature then the possibilities are finite.
If ultimate reality is non existence then I should live for today.
If ultimate reality is the existence of life then transcending reality to a truth beyond the natural world is something to strive for.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

There is a chance that ultimate reality has no grande purpose and no significant meaning to it.

Good point. This is very important and where faith become unavoidable. We will not pursue the desire for alignment unless we choose to believe that ultimate reality is good AND that we belong to it.

From another perspective, by not pursuing alignment I am casting judgment on reality or on myself. Going even more in the religious direction, by not pursuing alignment I am sinning against God (ultimate reality) and damning myself.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Could you describe what it is that you have concluded to be [an/the] “ultimate reality”?

In this context, I am simply defining ultimate reality as that which we desire to be in alignment with. As long as the desire for alignment persists, then I remain to some degree misaligned with reality.

 

[osgart]

In this context, I am simply defining ultimate reality as that which we desire to be in alignment with. As long as the desire for alignment persists, then I remain to some degree misaligned with reality.

This makes all the difference. Whatever a person's ultimate is, if they have one, that is what they are going to strive their utmost to live for. I know my ultimate and see that it is good and not destructive to anybody. I live and die by it, though I'm often at odds with actuality about it.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Also, there is something untrue about the unwillingness to distort what we associate ultimate reality with. That lack of creativity and perseverance is untrue.

For instance, if I view at the macro level that ultimate reality is indifferent or hostile, and if I view some superficial goal like having more money would be good, then it is untrue of me to not creatively distort reality by coupling the aim of making more money with ultimate reality. It’s something like.. it is less true to associate ultimate reality with indifference than to couple ultimate reality with a superficial aim that I believe is good.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Also, there is something untrue about the unwillingness to distort what we associate ultimate reality with. That lack of creativity and perseverance is untrue.

For instance, if I view at the macro level that ultimate reality is indifferent or hostile, and if I view some superficial goal like having more money would be good, then it is untrue of me to not creatively distort reality by coupling the aim of making more money with ultimate reality. It’s something like.. it is less true to associate ultimate reality with indifference than to couple ultimate reality with a superficial aim that I believe is good.

Flipping this, would it then be true that if we don’t pursue alignment with that which we associate with ultimate reality, then it necessarily follows that we must believe either that thing we call reality is indifferent or that we are unworthy of aligning with it?

In other words, if a believer says that God is good and that they are worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven, but they suppress the desire for alignment, then what they say about what they believe is untrue. If they actually believed that God is good and that they are worthy, then it would be impossible to deny or suppress the desire for alignment. By suppressing the feeling of misalignment, they are casting judgment on what they say they believe.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Since the desire for alignment is directly coupled with the feeling of misalignment, taking the bitter pill of misalignment is the cross to bear in order to actually be worthy of alignment. The suppression of the desire for alignment is due to the aversion to accepting, and even surrendering to, the reality of misalignment.

The acceptance of being misaligned with the highest good threatens self identity at the deepest level. It is a test of faith.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Since the desire for alignment is directly coupled with the feeling of misalignment, taking the bitter pill of misalignment is the cross to bear in order to actually be worthy of alignment. The suppression of the desire for alignment is due to the aversion to accepting, and even surrendering to, the reality of misalignment.

The acceptance of being misaligned with the highest good threatens self identity at the deepest level. It is a test of faith.

This is why God rejecting Cain’s offering is good. When Cain is rejected, it is surfacing the reality of his misalignment. The awareness of misalignment is step one to seeking alignment. If Abel never convinces Cain to risk rejection, then the reality of his misalignment would continue to be hidden.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

In this context, I am simply defining ultimate reality as that which we desire to be in alignment with. As long as the desire for alignment persists, then I remain to some degree misaligned with reality.

Ah! Thanks for clarifying. This makes different sense to me now.

Very interesting. I shall need to reread your comments and see what I make of them in light of this idea!

Spontaneously though: unless you’re a solipsist; we’d now be talking about realities in plural, as we do not have one thing that we all wish to align with, yes? Can one use the word “ultimate” about multiple “realities” without it too easily leading to misunderstanding…?


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Bird123]

Do we identify with the desire for alignment located in the body or with the thoughts located in the head? I say the former and you seem to affirm the latter.

I would claim about your position that the desire has to first be suppressed and our rationalizations are only true for a limited duration of time. After that, we are required to self deceive and distort since the desire can no longer be fully suppressed.

Still, I agree there is truth in your view, but fulfillment across time is a higher truth. Tradeoffs: either sacrifice in the immediate for the future or sacrifice the future for the immediate.

WE are Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are trapped within this physical body in order to bind us to the physical laws of this universe. Why? The time-based causal nature of this universe is perfect for learning. Our physical bodies are our transportation in this physical universe. It does no choosing.

Be true to yourself. If you do this, there is never a need to deceive or distort. Making your free choices ,whether those choices turn out to be the best choice or not, is the true path to the future, growth, and perfection. There is no need to sacrifice anything for anything. If you allow others to choose for you, you can wander from the journey your path should take. On the other hand, even with wandering, one, in time, will acquire the path to that journey. Since there is no time limit on learning, even the wandering will be a learning experience.

Perhaps, now is the time to analyze yourself. Why do you really have the need or desire to distort, deceive, or suppress yourself? Who has convinced you of this need and for what reason? So many times people run or hide from real truth, yet truth, whether one likes or agrees with it, is the answer forward and to make things better.

True resolution can never happen hiding, deceiving or suppressing the real truth. Maybe, you should ask. Do I really want to stay in my box of beliefs or am I brave and wise enough to venture into undiscovered country toward understand real truth and how real truth does make things better, advancing one to the capability of seeing what those best choices really are?

What if? What if?? I find what ifs rarely happen. That should never stop one. Further, generating fear from the unknown should never cause one to alter that journey. When understanding is reached, so often it is Discovered that there was nothing ever to be afraid of all along. We are all meant to Discover the Truth. There is really nothing to be afraid of.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that really counts!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Spontaneously though: unless you’re a solipsist; we’d now be talking about realities in plural, as we do not have one thing that we all wish to align with, yes? Can one use the word “ultimate” about multiple “realities” without it too easily leading to misunderstanding…?

Ultimate reality is the reality you place at the top of your hierarchy of realities. The one you seek alignment with. Subjectivity is unavoidable and should be utilized with the trust that the pursuit of truth will converge our individual ultimate realities in the end. Under the assumption that ultimate reality is good and truth corresponds with it.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

WE are Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are trapped within this physical body in order to bind us to the physical laws of this universe. Why? The time-based causal nature of this universe is perfect for learning. Our physical bodies are our transportation in this physical universe. It does no choosing.

Be true to yourself. If you do this, there is never a need to deceive or distort. Making your free choices ,whether those choices turn out to be the best choice or not, is the true path to the future, growth, and perfection. There is no need to sacrifice anything for anything. If you allow others to choose for you, you can wander from the journey your path should take. On the other hand, even with wandering, one, in time, will acquire the path to that journey. Since there is no time limit on learning, even the wandering will be a learning experience.

Perhaps, now is the time to analyze yourself. Why do you really have the need or desire to distort, deceive, or suppress yourself? Who has convinced you of this need and for what reason? So many times people run or hide from real truth, yet truth, whether one likes or agrees with it, is the answer forward and to make things better.

True resolution can never happen hiding, deceiving or suppressing the real truth. Maybe, you should ask. Do I really want to stay in my box of beliefs or am I brave and wise enough to venture into undiscovered country toward understand real truth and how real truth does make things better, advancing one to the capability of seeing what those best choices really are?

What if? What if?? I find what ifs rarely happen. That should never stop one. Further, generating fear from the unknown should never cause one to alter that journey. When understanding is reached, so often it is Discovered that there was nothing ever to be afraid of all along. We are all meant to Discover the Truth. There is really nothing to be afraid of.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that really counts!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I’m having trouble finding motivation to provide a response to this post because I find it so misrepresentative. We are too far apart in what I view I am doing in this thread and what I perceive your view of what I’m doing. Sorry that you took the time.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Ultimate reality is the reality you place at the top of your hierarchy of realities. The one you seek alignment with. Subjectivity is unavoidable and should be utilized with the trust that the pursuit of truth will converge our individual ultimate realities in the end. Under the assumption that ultimate reality is good and truth corresponds with it.

I like it!

I call it trust.
I trust that “divine” will -which I consider to be accessible to mankind- shall be understood by those who seek to find it and I have faith in that “divine” will, when understood, does make good of us and leads us to a life in harmony with selves and others.

Different faiths use different words for these ideas and though details (and above all, customs) vary greatly; their core is usually surprisingly similar.

I know I said I found your wording a little vague, but I can see the benefits of your choice of words now, precisely because they are a little vague - I like it!

Humbly,
Hermit