Misogyny Stemming from the Abrahamic Religions Today?

[Revoltingest]

Have you carried a child to term and given that child up for adoption?

Not yet.
I strongly suspect that I never will.

Are you in a close relationship with anyone who has done so?

No.

I am. It was horrendously painful for her. She was on medication for two years.

I'm sure it's hard on some.
Still, she had that right, ie, to unilaterally
give up that responsibility/liability.

When I saw the alert by your moniker, I expected
this to be in the container garden thread.

 

[Pete in Panama]

That has become a thing in certain places but to be honest anti-men bias wouldn't have occurred if women weren't oppressed by male dominated societies.

Correct me if I err here but what I'm getting is that any anti-men bias is all the man's fault. Nevertheless, I'll understand that all anti-men bias (whoever's fault it is) is not to be discussed here by order of --- the forum admin?

 

[Heyo]

Correct me if I err here but what I'm getting is that any anti-men bias is all the man's fault. Nevertheless, I'll understand that all anti-men bias (whoever's fault it is) is not to be discussed here by order of --- the forum admin?

By common courtesy to stick to the topic.

 

[thomas t]

The idea that women must submit to their husbands...some churches take that idea way to far. There are very rare few churches that dont recoginize marital rape to be real for instance.

thank you.
Why not handle it this way: if a guy wants to marry you but does not promise equality, you can just wait for the next one?
If he promises equality but does not stick to it you could discuss it in front of some friend and eventually in front of the whole congregation, if needed.

If men are authoritative in marriage, they can "command" equality. Very much in the way the Spanish king Juan Carlos demanded democracy when the power was his (some 50 years ago).

I do know women who don't care about equality in marrige or even wish the husband to lead. Well, it's different then.

 

[VoidCat]

thank you.
Why not handle it this way: if a guy wants to marry you but does not promise equality, you can just wait for the next one?
If he promises equality but does not stick to it you could discuss it in front of some friend and eventually in front of the whole congregation, if needed.

If men are authoritative in marriage, they can "command" equality. Very much in the way the Spanish king Juan Carlos demanded democracy when the power was his (some 50 years ago).

I do know women who don't care about equality in marrige or even wish the husband to lead. Well, it's different then.

I grew up in such a church. There was a lot of brainwashing. I would get into all of the bits and pieces but from the start I was to prepare to be married and submit. I had no voice. I was taught from the start men lead women submit. Even at 10 I was already told about when I marry my body would be my husband's and I would never be allowed to say no. Equality in marriage would be unthinkable if I had stayed

 

[thomas t]

I grew up in such a church. There was a lot of brainwashing. I would get into all of the bits and pieces but from the start I was to prepare to be married and submit. I had no voice. I was taught from the start men lead women submit. Even at 10 I was already told about when I marry my body would be my husband's and I would never be allowed to say no. Equality in marriage would be unthinkable if I had stayed

thank you, now I know what you were talking about.

 

[1213]

...Prime example for me is this: many Christians want to outlaw abortion. The price would have to be paid solely by women and not men....

If misogyny is the hatred of women, is there similar word for hatred of children? After all, if that women bears the burden to have much hated child, if abortion is not allowed, the child bears the heaviest burden, if abortion is allowed, because he is the one who loses life entirely, because of the hatred and absolute contempt that people express towards small children that have not have even time to do anything.

Sad thing that Leonard Cohen was very right about the future:
“…Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow…”

 

[VoidCat]

thank you, now I know what you were talking about.

One thing I was glad is Ive never married I left that church before I was 18...can you imagine if I stayed and married a guy from that church? Specially since I am a sexrepulsed asexual... There's just soo much that could've gone wrong there. Men at that church were not held accountable for their actions. If a woman was raped they were told it was their fault somehow. That if a man reaches a certain level of arousal they cant control themselves. It was real messed up...Purity culture is messed up.Definately glad I didn't stay.

 

[Clara Tea]

In the last thread two women agreed that Abrahamic Religions inspired anti-women bias.
I'm interested as to know what cases of anti-women bias you came across in the Christian churches in todays world?
I'm also interested in knowing which are the cases you see in which Christianity inspired misogyny?

------------------------
As a Christian I must admit that, sadly, I see misogyny occurring in Christianity.

Prime example for me is this: many Christians want to outlaw abortion. The price would have to be paid solely by women and not men.

This is a measure that noone knows will have any beneficial effect for the unborn life. And yet it will make life more difficult for those wanting to obtain an abortion: they would have to travel or even resort to an unsafe backstreet abortion. There are tens of thousands of women dying every year from unsafe backstreet abortions. https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/75173/WHO_RHR_12.01_eng.pdf

Don't get me wrong: I am against abortion of course (I'm a Christian).
However, I am also against all sorts of measures, such as criminalizing abortion, that cannot be documented to have any positive effect on abortion numbers at all.

To me, any demands for abortion to be punishable comes down to a lack of education. Those who want abortions to be banned should know first that there are no studies available that document a decrease in the overall abortion numbers after abortion is outlawed somewhere. This is at least my point of view.

------------
This thread is about today - lets say the last ten years or so. Looks into the more distant past like the Middle Ages or even 100 years ago will be considered off topic here (cause the thread gets too long in this case, I'm afraid).

The pregnancy (if normal) would be the woman's (not the man's). But, a man could love the unborn child as much as a woman could, and it is his baby, too. A man could agree to finance the woman and the baby (so, at least the finances are shared).

Since the United States is evenly split over the abortion issue (women deciding not to stretch their bodies with a baby and bring up a baby, vs. objections to murdering babies, some of which might still live if aborted in the third month, though blind and retarded). So, if we decide one way, half the nation would lose. If we decide the opposite way, half the nation would lose.

Trump suggested passing the issue to the states. Still, the states are almost 50-50 on the abortion issue. Yet, slightly more people will get their way. So, I think that abortion should be decided by states.

Then we would have issues of people going across state borders, defying the laws of their own state, and having illegal abortions. There could be laws to prosecute them, but that might be harsh (death penalty, 20 years in prison).

By passing the abortion issue to states, anti-abortion states would finally be able to show the world what it would be like. They could show that babies are in great demand to be adopted. They could show that some adopted babies would grow up to be good and smart (maybe cure a disease). They could make their state's laws shining examples to the rest of the world, and convince the world.

 

[Clara Tea]

I am a sexrepulsed asexua

Difficult to pick up chicks around here. Only worse place is the maternity ward.

 

[rational experiences]

When I was life harmed by science the occult condition I asked our father for his reasons.

Life a baby human knows the first two origin parents deceased he said. Baby adults claim consciously they returned from the deceased parent.

When a living parent had sex.

So I asked what rights did a baby own for self?

None at all.

So I thought would men stop having sex if a woman said I don't want baby life to be born suffering mutations?

No said father.

What about adult baby life suffering multi not asked for human suffering?

Would men stop having sex?

No father said they would rape the female.

Father said why his first sex act was innocent but considered evil by my science brother. Who hurt our life.

Abortion is a human choice. That for a female is not an easy choice to live with.

I believe in pro life. But I also believe in not my choice to make.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

In the last thread two women agreed that Abrahamic Religions inspired anti-women bias.
I'm interested as to know what cases of anti-women bias you came across in the Christian churches in todays world?
I'm also interested in knowing which are the cases you see in which Christianity inspired misogyny?

------------------------
As a Christian I must admit that, sadly, I see misogyny occurring in Christianity.

Prime example for me is this: many Christians want to outlaw abortion. The price would have to be paid solely by women and not men.

This is a measure that noone knows will have any beneficial effect for the unborn life. And yet it will make life more difficult for those wanting to obtain an abortion: they would have to travel or even resort to an unsafe backstreet abortion. There are tens of thousands of women dying every year from unsafe backstreet abortions. https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/75173/WHO_RHR_12.01_eng.pdf

Don't get me wrong: I am against abortion of course (I'm a Christian).
However, I am also against all sorts of measures, such as criminalizing abortion, that cannot be documented to have any positive effect on abortion numbers at all.

To me, any demands for abortion to be punishable comes down to a lack of education. Those who want abortions to be banned should know first that there are no studies available that document a decrease in the overall abortion numbers after abortion is outlawed somewhere. This is at least my point of view.

------------
This thread is about today - lets say the last ten years or so. Looks into the more distant past like the Middle Ages or even 100 years ago will be considered off topic here (cause the thread gets too long in this case, I'm afraid).

Hi thomas t. I can't answer for other Abrahamic religions, but when it comes to the Bible, how do you think it is misogynist? I read the Bible and I don't see that. The definition of misogyny is "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.". Sure, women could not be priests but priests could marry women. Paul says he does not permit a women to preach. So, is that misogyny? Yahweh has set things up so that there is a hierarchy in the family, within a marriage and within the assembly. The key word is headship. Without headship, the marriage is bound to fall apart. The husband is to be in subjection to Yahshua, and the wife subject to the husband according to Ephesians 5:22 and onwards.

I know in todays world, where male and females can be thought to be interchanged with gender reassignment, the lines have been blurred as to the differences between male and female. But in Yahweh's perfect Law, there is a difference between males and females. Males aren't to hate females (misogyny), and females aren't to hate males (misandry). The Bible in no way teaches this.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Correct me if I err here but what I'm getting is that any anti-men bias is all the man's fault. Nevertheless, I'll understand that all anti-men bias (whoever's fault it is) is not to be discussed here by order of --- the forum admin?

It is more complicated than that. Anti-men bias is a reaction to something. But it also isn't the fault of all men.

This point is off topic so it is best to stick to the topic in the OP (most of the time people go off topic in a thread though. It would be best to start your own thread about what you spoke about.

 

[Heyo]

Trump suggested passing the issue to the states. Still, the states are almost 50-50 on the abortion issue. Yet, slightly more people will get their way. So, I think that abortion should be decided by states.

An idea to keep and develop. Why stop at state level? Maybe county would be more appropriate? Or district, town?
What about putting it in the hand of the women and their doctors?

Then we would have issues of people going across state borders, defying the laws of their own state, and having illegal abortions.

They wouldn't illegal where they are performed. (And, see above, giving the decision to smaller units, would reduce travel distances.)

There could be laws to prosecute them, but that might be harsh (death penalty, 20 years in prison).

Then you'd better not return.

By passing the abortion issue to states, anti-abortion states would finally be able to show the world what it would be like. They could show that babies are in great demand to be adopted. They could show that some adopted babies would grow up to be good and smart (maybe cure a disease). They could make their state's laws shining examples to the rest of the world, and convince the world.

Yeah, one other chance at showing what hasn't worked in hundreds of other cases. We know what it's like in countries (and US states) with bans on abortion.

 

[thomas t]

if abortion is allowed,

this comes across as saying that abortion won't happen if it was not allowed.
That's a myth, I think. At least you cannot prove it right using decent sourcing.
Why spread rumors about abortion then?

“…Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow…”

Sounds like you think women are having an abortion because they don't like the child?
If this is what you claim, provide the evidence of it please.
There are a thousand reasons why women opt for ending their pregnancy early, I think.
If you claim it is because they dislike children, please go ahead and provide the evidence for your claim.
Unsourced opinions are not welcome here.
Rumor spreading is the last thing we need in this topic.

The only thing that happens when people spread rumors is that all sorts of emotions are going to be pushed.
I like it facts based.
Even if it's a topic in which emotions are involved.
Lets talk about facts here.

Can you please proceed like this in our conversation: back up what you say by using decent sourcing for your claims or - I ignore it.

 

[thomas t]

One thing I was glad is Ive never married I left that church before I was 18...can you imagine if I stayed and married a guy from that church? Specially since I am a sexrepulsed asexual... There's just soo much that could've gone wrong there. Men at that church were not held accountable for their actions. If a woman was raped they were told it was their fault somehow. That if a man reaches a certain level of arousal they cant control themselves. It was real messed up...Purity culture is messed up.Definately glad I didn't stay.

thank you for sharing.

Victim blaming. That's horrible.

"That if a man reaches a certain level of arousal they cant control themselves." - that's a messed up view on man's sexuality, I think. It all comes down to excuses for rape, I suppose.
They cannot provide but one scientific source to back their claim up that men in general can't help but rape women in certain instances.
It's presumption passed off as factual. Their presumption. I don't buy into it!

 

[crossfire]

In the last thread two women agreed that Abrahamic Religions inspired anti-women bias.
I'm interested as to know what cases of anti-women bias you came across in the Christian churches in todays world?
I'm also interested in knowing which are the cases you see in which Christianity inspired misogyny?

------------------------
As a Christian I must admit that, sadly, I see misogyny occurring in Christianity.

Prime example for me is this: many Christians want to outlaw abortion. The price would have to be paid solely by women and not men.

This is a measure that noone knows will have any beneficial effect for the unborn life. And yet it will make life more difficult for those wanting to obtain an abortion: they would have to travel or even resort to an unsafe backstreet abortion. There are tens of thousands of women dying every year from unsafe backstreet abortions. https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/75173/WHO_RHR_12.01_eng.pdf

Don't get me wrong: I am against abortion of course (I'm a Christian).
However, I am also against all sorts of measures, such as criminalizing abortion, that cannot be documented to have any positive effect on abortion numbers at all.

To me, any demands for abortion to be punishable comes down to a lack of education. Those who want abortions to be banned should know first that there are no studies available that document a decrease in the overall abortion numbers after abortion is outlawed somewhere. This is at least my point of view.

------------
This thread is about today - lets say the last ten years or so. Looks into the more distant past like the Middle Ages or even 100 years ago will be considered off topic here (cause the thread gets too long in this case, I'm afraid).

I wouldn't say that misogyny is limited to Abrahamic religion. There is also plenty of misogyny in non-Abrahamic religions and Atheism. Regarding Christianity specifically, I would say that the misogyny perpetuated by it comes from the Greek Hellenistic culture. You can see the culture wars going on in early Christianity between the Jews and the Gentiles, and whether Gentile Christians should follow Jewish traditions and vice-versa. The early Christian church somewhat shielded itself by pandering to the extreme misogyny of the Greek Hellenistic culture. (The Greeks were the original propagators of the "religious police," called "Censors of Women." Even the Roman Patriarchial culture was called out for being too lax on their women by the Greeks.) The pattern of pandering to the Hellenistic culture became encoded within the religion of Christianity and remains long after the need to pander to it as a means of protection has long ended.

 

[thomas t]

By passing the abortion issue to states, anti-abortion states would finally be able to show the world what it would be like. They could show that babies are in great demand to be adopted. They could show that some adopted babies would grow up to be good and smart (maybe cure a disease). They could make their state's laws shining examples to the rest of the world, and convince the world.

I think these states can show the world what it's like when all those women who want to obtain an abortion just travel to the neighboring state to get a legal one.
That's a "shining example" of restrictive laws inspring abortion tourism in the US.

They could perhaps show the world that their laws were unable to convince women to carry their pregnancy to term offering their babies for adoption.
That would be smart - and honest, I suggest.

 

[crossfire]

I think these states can show the world what it like when all those women who want to obtain an abortion just travel to the neighboring state to get a legal one.
That's a "shining example" of restrictive laws inspring abortion tourism in the US.

They could perhaps show the world that their laws were unable to convince women to carry their pregnancy to term offering their babies for adotion.
That would be smart - and honest, I suggest.

The maternal death rate from childbirth is increasing--not decreasing, and healthcare for women is being defunded by political activists. Many women cannot afford to take the physical risk of childbirth, much less be able to afford it financially.

 

[thomas t]

how do you think it is misogynist?

no. What makes you think that I thought so? Provide a quote please...

Paul says he does not permit a women to preach. So, is that misogyny?

in the context of Galatians 3:28 - gender equality at church, please.

So when in some congregation the women can't preach - and there's gender equality in place - this means either men cannot preach either or the men of that congregation ask the women what they want in return. If the women of that church are willing to negotiate, at least.
If they are not, it's going to be a very silent service at church, I'm afraid.