Missionaries At My Door

[Unification]

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According to Watch Tower Society theology, Jesus Christ's crucified body did not recover from death; and its remains are squirreled away in a condition, and a location, known only to God.

One of the reasons given for their theology is located on page 237 of the April 15, 1963 issue of the Watch Tower magazine; where it's stated: "If Jesus were to take his body of flesh, blood, and bones to heaven and enjoy them there, what would this mean? It would mean that there would be no resurrection of the dead for anybody. Why not? Because Jesus would be taking his sacrifice off God's altar."

In other words: it is the Society's belief that Christ's crucified body has to remain dead in order to be an effective atonement, and it has to stay on earth. What's wrong with that?

Well according to the Society, human life is entirely physical. In other words; when people die they go completely out of existence. So then, since Jesus Christ's body is still dead, then Jesus Christ no longer exists as a human being.

Q: What about Christ's alleged post resurrection appearances?

A: According to the Society; those were not actually Christ. Those were an angel named Michael disguised in a human avatar that was, in all respects, a perfect, fully functioning knock-off of the real Christ.

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The ego of a being has to remain crucified/dead in order for at-one-ment of mind. If not, the conscious and subconscious will no longer be united, one, and whole... they will be separated back into two and divided. When one dies to themselves, they are resurrected within. Old frame of mentality is gone, new frame of mind has come.

Every being has a body of flesh, blood, and bones. The Christ is an active life force, potential state of conscious and substance within the human body made of flesh, blood, and bones. This return to at-one-ment occurs within, metaphysically. One mind. Divine marriage of husband(conscious) and wife(subconscious.)

 

[Cephus]

it seems rather narrow minded to attack someones beliefs just because they are different

It isn't because they are different, it is because they are wrong.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

the reason they are at your door is because they think you are wrong. it is still no reason to treat them badly, just say you do not wish to discuss anything

 

[Quintessence]

I've been tempted to have a stack of pamphlets about Neopaganisms and shove one in their face every time they have the disrespectful audacity to harass me with their solicitations.

 

[Desert Snake]

I've been tempted to have a stack of pamphlets about Neopaganisms and shove one in their face every time they have the disrespectful audacity to harass me with their solicitations.

Do you mean when they knock on your door, with pamphlets?

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't think that handing out pamphlets constitutes ''harrassment'', as long as their polite.

 

[wintersolstice]

I've had visits from JW and LDS missionaries and have found both to be polite and respectful. When they introduce themselves, I let them know that we are involved and active in our faith tradition and wish them well in their work. The JW folks seem to be more persistent. It must be so difficult to go door-to-door evangelizing so I have to give them credit for their committment.

 

[idea]

I'm not a JW, but I do think it is sad that someone would make judgments on a religious group based on literature that did not come from that group. Everyone is doing the best they can with what they have. The JW's extreme dedication to missionary work is interesting.

 

[Quintessence]

Do you mean when they knock on your door, with pamphlets?

Yes.

I don't think that handing out pamphlets constitutes ''harrassment'', as long as their polite.

I have difficulty viewing proselytizing - and at my front door no less - as anything other than fundamentally impolite behavior and harassment. How dare they come to my sacred space with such rot and disrespectful intentions. How DARE they.

Should hang a sign on my door too that says "religious solicitors will be hexed."

 

[InChrist]

I'm not a JW, but I do think it is sad that someone would make judgments on a religious group based on literature that did not come from that group. Everyone is doing the best they can with what they have. The JW's extreme dedication to missionary work is interesting.

I think their extreme dedication is actually very sad because I'm sure it is a heavy burden placed upon the members by the organization where they are made to feel that they must put in their door to door time quota in order to continue receiving the approval of the Watchtower and therefore Jehovah.

 

[AlbertL]

The key to any conversation is to first establish that the goal is truth above all else.
Then once you do that, you ask them if they woukd follow truth where ever it leads them. If they answer with yes, you then ask them if they would leave the JW today if you could show them that it is not true.
If they answer no, then truth is not their goal and the conversation is over.
If they answer yes, then you show them what you know and let them decide from there.
We should always be willing to listen to other peoples ideas. After all, they might know something we don't. But the goal should always be truth above all else. If not, then there is no reason to contests conversation. Either they are choosing to hold to a lie, or you are. Either way, it then becomes a waste of time.

 

[rusra02]

Sounds like most of your information about Jws has come from apostates and opposers. Sort of like going to the Pharisees and Sanhedrin for accurate information about Jesus Christ and his followers.

 

[WeberHome]

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According to Watch Tower Society theology, there are two kinds of resurrections; neither of which is a true resurrection but rather a re-creation because its theology supports the notion that human life is entirely physical; viz; when people die, they go completely out of existence. So in order to get them back in existence, God has to re-create them.

One of the Society's re-creation resurrections brings people back in a spirit body; which is based upon a variety of passages like Matt 22:30 and portions of the 15th chapter of first Corinthians.

I'm going to deliberately misquote 1Cor 15:44. Watch for the changes.

"It is sown a solid body; it is raised a spirit body. There is a solid body, and there is a spirit body."

I did it like that to bring out the point that the koiné Greek word for "spiritual" is ambiguous; viz: it doesn't always indicate thin air. Below is a list of spiritual things that bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to things consisting of spirit.

Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

So, with all that under our belts; I propose that we paraphrase 1Cor 15:44 to read as follows:

"It is sown a normal body, it is raised up a superhuman body. There is a natural body, and there is a supernatural body."

That works for me because "supernatural" implies a human body similar in some respects to the man of steel popularly known at Comic Con as Superman. The heroic figure from the planet Krypton isn't constructed of spirit; but rather; of some sort of indestructible tissue. It looks like ordinary human tissue; but in his case, appearances can be deceiving.

I sincerely believe that the spiritual body spoken of at 1Cor 15:44 is in no way composed of spirit. Of what material it is composed I don't know; but I do know at least three things about it. One is that the material is totally unknown to modern physics, and two; it's living tissue, and the third is that it's impervious to death and putrefaction.

The spiritual body is a glorious body.

†. Matt 16:28-17:2 . .Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. And six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and brought them up to a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light." (Matt 16:28-17:2)

A glorious body is capable of dining upon ordinary foods.

†. Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.

A glorious body is capable of imbibing ordinary beverages.

†. Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

A glorious body is a heavenly body.

†. Php 3:20-21 . . Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Q: How do you get around "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1Cor 15:50)

A: The answer to that question is located in 1Cor 15:35-44

All of the natural elements listed on the periodic table are those that God created in the first chapter of Genesis. But those elements were custom crafted for the current cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy. Heavenly elements are not of this cosmos. They are unknown to modern physics; and it is those elements that God used to construct Christ's glorious body. It resembles normal flesh and blood, but that's where the resemblance ends.

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[Cephus]

I've been tempted to have a stack of pamphlets about Neopaganisms and shove one in their face every time they have the disrespectful audacity to harass me with their solicitations.

I did something similar once, I made up a whole stack of pamphlets for an imaginary Satanic church, complete with things about eating babies and dark ceremonies and the like. I gave one to a door knocker and they literally ran away. It was funny.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Demons are theists (Jas 2:19) but I do not accept them as fellows.

Allow me to offer some clarification and make an additional inquiry:

1.) I wasn't inquiring about the theism of demons. I was inquiring about the theism of Jehovah's Witnesses.
2.) Are you trying to imply that Jehovah's Witness are demons?

Webster's defines a cult as-- among other things --a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous.

So it's really just a function of size, correct? Because any given religion is almost certain to hold beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous (if only dangerous for the well-being of one's alleged-to-exist soul in some purportedly-true afterlife) correct?

If we were to use traditional Christianity as a baseline

Which one? Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant? And how long does a brand of faith have to exist before it can proclaim itself to be "traditional?"

then non traditional forms of Christianity would fall into the cult category.

So does it follow that Catholics view the Orthodox church as a cult? And vice versa?

Non traditional forms of Christianity need not always be dangerous to qualify as a cult: they just need to be extreme.

All non-traditional forms of Christianity probably do qualify as heresies, however ... right?

 

[WeberHome]

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Are you trying to imply that Jehovah's Witness are demons?

No.

So it's really just a function of size, correct? Because any given religion is almost certain to hold beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous (if only dangerous for the well-being of one's alleged-to-exist soul in some purportedly-true afterlife) correct? Which one? Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant? And how long does a brand of faith have to exist before it can proclaim itself to be "traditional?"

Sorry; but you have to decide for your own self how best to apply Webster's definition of a cult.

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