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Missouri Bill Would Put Teachers On Sex Offender Registry For Affirming Trans Kids' Identities

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
But what makes a policy or law right or wrong? Whom do they favor, and whom do they injure. That's where the right or left, conservative or progressive, or authoritarian or democratic come in.
I'd address that with two points.

First, when I look at the Organic Laws, which are the standard against which all other laws and policies are (should be) measured when determining rightness or wrongness, with notable exceptions it is clear that the laws create a level social field in which to live and act; no one is favored and no one is disfavored. The law is that we all have a right to life, for example, not "some" have a right to life. Etc. Glaring affronts to that standard have, of course, existed in our history, both in society and in the law, slavery being the easiest example to cite. It may not always have been easy for some Americans to see that laws protecting or authorizing slavery were bad laws, or wrong, but they were bad and wrong nonetheless. The simplest test is one of "equal protection." If a law or policy protects one faction but not others, it is wrong. Or if it denies protection to one faction; also wrong.

Second, we look again to the Organic Laws to assess whether or not the law or policy leverages authority granted to government in the first place. If the People do not grant government authority to do the thing, the policy or law is wrong and should not be passed.

Partisanship blasts the equitableness and simplicity of the standard apart, making everything left/right, liberal/conservative, etc., funneling everything through a standard of "who is favored?" Those are the worst measures of right and wrong because they are inherently factious, prejudicial, biased, or usurp the right of people in some way (government abusing everyone equally). Government is not about favoring or disfavoring people; it is about creating and maintaining a stable social environment in which people may favor or disfavor themselves (ie, live, move about, pursue happiness, etc.) without abuse—by their neighbors or by government. Favoritism destabilizes. Abuse destabilizes. When government checks and corrects either favoritism or abuse, it is doing its job; when it exceeds that, or neglects to do it, it is wrong. Always.

If you look at the history of these laws, the debates about them, who undermined them and why, you'll find the the left or progressives proposed and supported them, and the conservative right opposed or undermined them. Almost all the things that enhance the lives, safety or prosperity of the common people were opposed by the conservatives at the time.
Without looking at specifics, I can't make a judgment of agreement. But let's say your summary is accurate; the question or rightness or wrongness of the policies, laws or agencies in question has still not been address; you've only looked at 1) if they favored someone and 2) who favors them, or not.
So yes, it is usually a party thing, with one party favoring the people, and the other the corporations and rich who exploit them.
I agree that much of what government does anymore is partisan and factious. IE, wrong. Even still, a broken clock is right twice a day, so every now and again a party does something right, even if they're doing it for the wrong reason.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Plenty evidence around already that Democrats are pathological socialists and marxists that embrace communist style rule over people.
The Dems aren't stripping people of rights and going so stupid they want to put people on the sex offenders list over being ok with a kids gender non conforming haircut.
Clearly you don't know what these terms mean, you post outrageously false claims, amd you want to yammer about your boogeyman in the government?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The Dems aren't stripping people of rights and going so stupid they want to put people on the sex offenders list over being ok with a kids gender non conforming haircut.
Clearly you don't know what these terms mean, you post outrageously false claims, amd you want to yammer about your boogeyman in the government?
How about you showing some real Republican fascist tyrants?

Maybe one that is yelling, "Fascism wins"!

I got plenty of actual socialists in the Democrat psrty that puts your fantasy fascists away.

It's a bill that obviously isn't going to be pased by other Republicans so yammer on about your boogeyman fascists tyrants yourself.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
More Republican fascism on display. And they have the temerity of saying the Democrats are weaponizing government!

House bill 2885 states that if any teacher or counselor "provides support, regardless of whether the support is material, information or other resources," to a trans youth who is transitioning could face four years in prison, a $10,000 fine, and be listed as a sex offender in that state.

The bill defines transitioning as when an individual uses names, pronouns, or even gender expression, including clothes and hair styles, that do not match their gender assigned at birth. Displaying pride flags in a classroom or introducing any book with LGBTQ-related material would also be considered felony offenses under the bill.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Jamie Gragg (R-Christian County), said the motivation behind the legislation was to support parents "who are frustrated with things that kids are being taught in school."

Is what is happening in schools; teachers advising students for life altering changes, like practicing medicine without a license? Shouldn't diagnosing and advising a child with an identity disorder/uncertainty, especially if that requires drugs and complex surgery, require a least a PhD in Psychology, a Medical degree, or even more schooling all the way to Psychiatry?

At least parents need to consult their Primary Physician who will recommend Specialists, up the proper chain of command. Can parents sue the pseudo-expert teachers for malpractice, since they can so this with the legal experts. Do teachers now need to have malpractice insurance, which can be as high as $50K/year. One botch diagnosis out of hundred can still bring a good payday and sometimes alter career trajectories.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Maybe one that is yelling, "Fascism wins"!
The Nazis didn't say that either.
It's a bill that obviously isn't going to be pased by other Republicans so yammer on about your boogeyman fascists tyrants yourself.
How's Roe V Wade doing? Oh yeah, theocratic minded fascist Republicans stacked the courts and denied Obama his rightful Supreme Court to do away with Roe V Wade.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
How about you showing some real Republican fascist tyrants?

Maybe one that is yelling, "Fascism wins"!

I got plenty of actual socialists in the Democrat psrty that puts your fantasy fascists away.

It's a bill that obviously isn't going to be pased by other Republicans so yammer on about your boogeyman fascists tyrants yourself.
Read the OP.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Plenty evidence around already that Democrats are pathological socialists and marxists that embrace communist style rule over people.
You know, it's really easy to sling that kind of scurrilous rubbish -- especially when you're anonymous.

I'll tell you, as a Canadian, I live in a nation that is quite a bit to the left of pretty much everybody in the U.S., although we still have a capitalist economy, with just such restrictions as are necessary for the protection of basic human needs. And from my vantage point, there are very, very few Democrats who behave anything like a regular socialist, much less a pathological one.

So would you be so kind as to give this poor, uninformed Canuck the benefit of your obviously superior knowledge and provide some details about just how we can see that "Democrats are pathological socialists and marxists that embrace communist style rule over people?"
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You know, it's really easy to sling that kind of scurrilous rubbish -- especially when you're anonymous.

I'll tell you, as a Canadian, I live in a nation that is quite a bit to the left of pretty much everybody in the U.S., although we still have a capitalist economy, with just such restrictions as are necessary for the protection of basic human needs. And from my vantage point, there are very, very few Democrats who behave anything like a regular socialist, much less a pathological one.

So would you be so kind as to give this poor, uninformed Canuck the benefit of your obviously superior knowledge and provide some details about just how we can see that "Democrats are pathological socialists and marxists that embrace communist style rule over people?"
How many times do I have to post this stuff before it sinks in through the layers?









Stop pretending you know more than Americans who actually live in this country unlike you.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Is what is happening in schools; teachers advising students for life altering changes, like practicing medicine without a license? Shouldn't diagnosing and advising a child with an identity disorder/uncertainty, especially if that requires drugs and complex surgery, require a least a PhD in Psychology, a Medical degree, or even more schooling all the way to Psychiatry?

At least parents need to consult their Primary Physician who will recommend Specialists, up the proper chain of command. Can parents sue the pseudo-expert teachers for malpractice, since they can so this with the legal experts. Do teachers now need to have malpractice insurance, which can be as high as $50K/year. One botch diagnosis out of hundred can still bring a good payday and sometimes alter career trajectories.
Good post IMO.
Mainly what I see being argued about or debated on those issues involves the left did this, the right did that. You didnt make it political. Bravo!
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
How many times do I have to post this stuff before it sinks in through the layers?








There’s nothing wrong with being a socialist. They actually have many platforms that the majority of Americans agree with, like social security and Medicaid. The USA needs to progress to universal healthcare. Subsidized college would help students not face massive debt.

Stop pretending you know more than Americans who actually live in this country unlike you.
There are many people who live in this country who are poorly informed or choose poor quality media and are disinformed.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
You know, it's really easy to sling that kind of scurrilous rubbish -- especially when you're anonymous.

I'll tell you, as a Canadian, I live in a nation that is quite a bit to the left of pretty much everybody in the U.S., although we still have a capitalist economy, with just such restrictions as are necessary for the protection of basic human needs. And from my vantage point, there are very, very few Democrats who behave anything like a regular socialist, much less a pathological one.

So would you be so kind as to give this poor, uninformed Canuck the benefit of your obviously superior knowledge and provide some details about just how we can see that "Democrats are pathological socialists and marxists that embrace communist style rule over people?"
Isn't Canada a capitalist country?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
How many times do I have to post this stuff before it sinks in through the layers?









Stop pretending you know more than Americans who actually live in this country unlike you.
If you don't want to get corrected by a Canadian then don't post stuff so obviously wrong.
According to the first link there have been socialists in office since 1847. But your doomsday prediction been failing for about 180 years.
Are you going to denying that the Republicans are fascist theocrats who are axing the liberties of women, lgbt amd certain religious groups? Are going to accept they love a treasonous whelp who has a long history of fraud and celebrating dictators?
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Isn't Canada a capitalist country?
There is a long way from merely left wing to socialist. You will often hear people on the right claiming "socialist" when it comes to any tax funded services that they do not like. The problem is that with people that use the phrase "socialist" far too often is that the police, the fire departments, the schools, the roads, in fact most of the government that they rely upon and approve of are by their poor definition "socialist". That even includes the armed forces since they are supported by taxpayer funds.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
If you don't want to get corrected by a Canadian then don't post stuff so obviously wrong.
According to the first link there have been socialists in office since 1847. But your doomsday prediction been failing for about 180 years.
Are you going to denying that the Republicans are fascist theocrats who are axing the liberties of women, lgbt amd certain religious groups? Are going to accept they love a treasonous whelp who has a long history of fraud and celebrating dictators?
Sounds like the same thing the nanny state democrats are doing.

Tell me what's so fascist here?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
How many times do I have to post this stuff before it sinks in through the layers?









Stop pretending you know more than Americans who actually live in this country unlike you.
How many of the people on those lists are currently serving? Out of how many serving in total?

Because, you see, you gave me a list of 41 Members of Congress, for example, going back to 1847. Now, I would suppose that way more than 3,000 members in all that time. since at present there are 535 members, which means you are making big claims about a tiny percentage of people.
 
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