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Mistaken Identity and Jesus - doesn't require a look-a-like

excreationist

Married mouth-breather
Note that in all of these examples the person doesn’t look like the other person – unlike the identical twin theory.

a) Thinking Jesus was someone else (according to some people)

Matthew 16:14 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets

Mark 6:14-16 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or a prophet. King Herod says “John, whom I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!” (as Jesus)

Mark 8:28 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah or a prophet

Luke 9:18-19 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or a prophet

John 1:21 – Jesus is asked if he is Elijah or a prophet

This shows that mistaken identity doesn’t require an identical twin. Most people would just ignore these verses and maybe be puzzled by them.

b) Brief appearances – sometimes they think it isn’t Jesus

Note that in all of the stories that could involve mistaken identity, Jesus is only there for a fairly short amount of time.

1 Corinthians 15:6 – the appearance to the “more than 500” – Richard Carrier says this could have involved a mass hallucination


…but in modern times there was an event involving 6000 people believing they saw Jesus (mistaken identity).


nairobi9.jpg


Since that happened then the 500+ could also easily have been an historical event.

Matthew 28:10 – Jesus tells women that he will see the disciples in Galilee. The disciples saw Jesus there. The end.

Mark 16:14-19 – appeared when the disciples were eating then ascended to heaven.

Luke 24:13 – On the road to Emmaus Jesus appeared to two disciples, in verse 31 they recognised Jesus, eats a broiled fish with the disciples, near Bethany he ascended into heaven.

John 20:14 – Mary Magdalene saw Jesus but did not recognise him. She thought he was a gardener. Jesus appears to the disciples. Verse 26 – Jesus appeared a week later.
John 21 – Jesus appeared again by the Sea of Galilee. Verse 4 – they didn’t recognise Jesus. Verse 14 – the third time Jesus had appeared to the disciples. No mention of ascension.

Acts 1:3 – Jesus appeared to them over 40 days then ascended into heaven.

Not recognising “Jesus” is consistent with the mistaken identity theory. So is the appearances being brief. Some Christians say that Jesus could have had a glorified body but that doesn’t explain why Mary thought he was a common gardener. In other stories they did recognise it was Jesus.
 

Eddi

Christianity, Taoism, and Humanism
Premium Member
According to Christianity, Jesus will descend from the clouds, he will come down from Heaven in a very visible event

He will not be reincarnated down here on Earth

It will b e the return of Christ, not the emergence of Christ II

According to Christianity, there will be no doubt
 

excreationist

Married mouth-breather
According to Christianity, Jesus will descend from the clouds, he will come down from Heaven in a very visible event
I'm talking about the appearances of "Jesus" after he died that are mentioned in the Bible. BTW in Mark 16:19 it says Jesus was taken up to heaven after he'd spoken with his disciples. In Luke 24:51 it says after Jesus was near Bethany he was taken up to heaven. Acts 1 says that Jesus was taken up to heaven after 40 days. So I wonder what happened in those stories.... did he go to heaven early (like in Mark and Luke) then come back to earth some more then go back to heaven a couple of weeks later?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Note that in all of these examples the person doesn’t look like the other person – unlike the identical twin theory.

a) Thinking Jesus was someone else (according to some people)

Matthew 16:14 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets

Mark 6:14-16 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or a prophet. King Herod says “John, whom I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!” (as Jesus)

Mark 8:28 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah or a prophet

Luke 9:18-19 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or a prophet

John 1:21 – Jesus is asked if he is Elijah or a prophet

This shows that mistaken identity doesn’t require an identical twin. Most people would just ignore these verses and maybe be puzzled by them.

b) Brief appearances – sometimes they think it isn’t Jesus

Note that in all of the stories that could involve mistaken identity, Jesus is only there for a fairly short amount of time.

1 Corinthians 15:6 – the appearance to the “more than 500” – Richard Carrier says this could have involved a mass hallucination


…but in modern times there was an event involving 6000 people believing they saw Jesus (mistaken identity).


nairobi9.jpg


Since that happened then the 500+ could also easily have been an historical event.

Matthew 28:10 – Jesus tells women that he will see the disciples in Galilee. The disciples saw Jesus there. The end.

Mark 16:14-19 – appeared when the disciples were eating then ascended to heaven.

Luke 24:13 – On the road to Emmaus Jesus appeared to two disciples, in verse 31 they recognised Jesus, eats a broiled fish with the disciples, near Bethany he ascended into heaven.

John 20:14 – Mary Magdalene saw Jesus but did not recognise him. She thought he was a gardener. Jesus appears to the discipleVs. Verse 26 – Jesus appeared a week later.
John 21 – Jesus appeared again by the Sea of Galilee. Verse 4 – they didn’t recognise Jesus. Verse 14 – the third time Jesus had appeared to the disciples. No mention of ascension.

Acts 1:3 – Jesus appeared to them over 40 days then ascended into heaven.

Not recognising “Jesus” is consistent with the mistaken identity theory. So is the appearances being brief. Some Christians say that Jesus could have had a glorified body but that doesn’t explain why Mary thought he was a common gardener. In other stories they did recognise it was Jesus.
This means that it could result in Christians believing Jesus had come back from the dead while just involving mistaken identity.
Very good points.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
“Jesus” rose from the grave imo.
Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, I understand, when gained consciousness from the unconscious/near-dead, he hurled the stone of the grave out and came out in an injured condition and disguised himself or moved about secretly lest he is caught again and persecuted, please, right?

Regards
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, I understand, when gained consciousness from the unconscious/near-dead, he hurled the stone of the grave out and came out in an injured condition and disguised himself, please, right?

Regards

Source please?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Nowhere in the Bible I read. Albeit this was 22 years ago.
That is because even the four anonymous Gospels have been doctored by Pauline-Christianity people by Paul, his associates and the Church, so one has to ascertain the clues from it by deep thinking, many of them are just obvious in the Gospels, right?:



Regards
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Note that in all of these examples the person doesn’t look like the other person – unlike the identical twin theory.

a) Thinking Jesus was someone else (according to some people)

Matthew 16:14 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets

Mark 6:14-16 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or a prophet. King Herod says “John, whom I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!” (as Jesus)

Mark 8:28 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah or a prophet

Luke 9:18-19 – Jesus is believed to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or a prophet

John 1:21 – Jesus is asked if he is Elijah or a prophet

This shows that mistaken identity doesn’t require an identical twin. Most people would just ignore these verses and maybe be puzzled by them.

b) Brief appearances – sometimes they think it isn’t Jesus

Note that in all of the stories that could involve mistaken identity, Jesus is only there for a fairly short amount of time.

1 Corinthians 15:6 – the appearance to the “more than 500” – Richard Carrier says this could have involved a mass hallucination


…but in modern times there was an event involving 6000 people believing they saw Jesus (mistaken identity).


nairobi9.jpg


Since that happened then the 500+ could also easily have been an historical event.

Matthew 28:10 – Jesus tells women that he will see the disciples in Galilee. The disciples saw Jesus there. The end.

Mark 16:14-19 – appeared when the disciples were eating then ascended to heaven.

Luke 24:13 – On the road to Emmaus Jesus appeared to two disciples, in verse 31 they recognised Jesus, eats a broiled fish with the disciples, near Bethany he ascended into heaven.

John 20:14 – Mary Magdalene saw Jesus but did not recognise him. She thought he was a gardener. Jesus appears to the disciples. Verse 26 – Jesus appeared a week later.
John 21 – Jesus appeared again by the Sea of Galilee. Verse 4 – they didn’t recognise Jesus. Verse 14 – the third time Jesus had appeared to the disciples. No mention of ascension.

Acts 1:3 – Jesus appeared to them over 40 days then ascended into heaven.

Not recognising “Jesus” is consistent with the mistaken identity theory. So is the appearances being brief. Some Christians say that Jesus could have had a glorified body but that doesn’t explain why Mary thought he was a common gardener. In other stories they did recognise it was Jesus.
You left out some context in the response to a question by Jesus about his true identity. It would be more accurate to say that people thought Jesus was a reincarnation of past figures:

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” <-----all dead by the time the question was posed!

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

As for Mary she went to the tomb in the early dawn, saw the tomb open, Jesus's body was gone. She assumed that the figure in his hoodie nearby was the gardener. Mary didn't assume a resurrection, she went to properly wrap the body.
 

excreationist

Married mouth-breather
You left out some context in the response to a question by Jesus about his true identity. It would be more accurate to say that people thought Jesus was a reincarnation of past figures:

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” <-----all dead by the time the question was posed!
There could also be cases of mistaken identity when Jesus was dead. In the case of John the Baptist he was fairly freshly dead.
As for Mary she went to the tomb in the early dawn, saw the tomb open, Jesus's body was gone. She assumed that the figure in his hoodie nearby was the gardener. Mary didn't assume a resurrection, she went to properly wrap the body.
I think mistaken identity makes more sense than Mary being unable to recognise "Jesus" (where Mary originally didn't mistake him for Jesus but later did). BTW what do you think of the time when 6000 people thought they saw Jesus I mentioned?
BTW after Jesus "rose" he usually only sees the disciples, etc, for short amounts of time rather than staying with them all of the time like he used to....
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
There could also be cases of mistaken identity when Jesus was dead. In the case of John the Baptist he was fairly freshly dead.

I think mistaken identity makes more sense than Mary being unable to recognise "Jesus" (where Mary originally didn't mistake him for Jesus but later did). BTW what do you think of the time when 6000 people thought they saw Jesus I mentioned?
BTW after Jesus "rose" he usually only sees the disciples, etc, for short amounts of time rather than staying with them all of the time like he used to....
I would point out that the original sightings of Jesus were a surprise, unanticipated. The 6000 were believers who were eager to see a return of Jesus. Eager to believe!
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
and he did not meet the "adulterous" Jews to whom he had promised to show the "Sign of Jonah" lest he is caught again, right?

Regards
No wrong! ------> "no sign be given to it" No sign was given to the unbelievers, only those who believed.



But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


That "generation" was given the story of the resurrection but rejected it. They still reject it today! So as Jesus said, the kingdom will be given to other people.
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
This means that it could result in Christians believing Jesus had come back from the dead while just involving mistaken identity.
I believe nail prints in the hands identify well enough.
Why did King Herod think that John the Baptist had been raised from the dead? (answer: mistaken identity) This thread talks about an explanation that doesn't require the impossible (in terms of physics, etc).
I believe he may not have considered that any more preposterous than someone performing miracles. However there is no record of John the Baptist doing any miracles.
 
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