kai
ragamuffin
wow! banned prophets
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Modern day prophets & revealed scripture
- Thread starter kadzbiz
- Start date
TrueBlue2
Member
The name of the President of the LDS church today is Gordon B. Hinckley. I agree that a true prophet will have the spirit of prophecy but ONLY if needed, or required by God. A true prophet will act as God's messenger, but that message is often a call to righteousness, or to denounce evil. A prophet will be a preacher of righteousness. President Hinckley has done all these things admirably but I am not aware of any specific "prophecy" that he has made, either about the end of the world, or otherwise.
Joseph Smith, on the other hand, did make a few prophecies. Perhaps the most famous one is the one on war published in 1832. It is part of LDS canon today. Here, in effect is what he said:
"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death of many souls; And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations...For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States...And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn...and be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God...wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come..." (D&C 87)
The revelation was given in 1832. The Civil war started in 1860.
Smoke
Done here.
Oddly enough, what they think they need is your money.
I have no use at all for religious hucksters, frauds, confidence men, oracles, seers, revelators, and other mouthpieces of the spirit world. To me, a prophet is one who tells an uncomfortable truth in the service of peace and justice; deities are entirely optional -- if anything, they seem to be a bit of a hindrance. Examples of the good and useful kind of prophet are people like George Fox, Elias Hicks, Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglass, Mohandas Gandhi, Bertrand Russell, Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon, Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King, Bayard Rustin, Harry Hay, Urvashi Vaid, and the dreaded Richard Dawkins.
Quickest way to determine a religious huckster:
1) He wants your money.
2) He wants your unthinking loyalty.
TrueBlue2
Member
I agree with your definition of a "religious huckster" Midnight. While the men you mention were all good men, and each of them accomplished something admirable, none of them claimed to be a prophet, or even a spokesman for God. The most influential prophet who has lived on the earth since Jesus Christ is a man named Joseph Smith.:yes:
kadzbiz
..........................
Apologies for the name error. A lot of people preach righteousness, but they don't call themselves a prophet. Some people predict the future, but don't call themselves a prophet. If Smith made true prophecies, and I'm sure he would have preached righteousness also, why aren't the LDS member adhering to Smith's words instead of Hinckley's?
Smoke
Done here.
That's right. I'm using the word prophet in a non-religious sense -- although some of the people I named were religious -- because that's usually the sense that makes the most ... sense.
Claiming to be god's spokesman is a pretty good indication that somebody is a huckster, too.
TrueBlue2
Member
If you've been around many LDS people you will recognize that they revere the prophet Joseph Smith. He is considered the great prophet of the restoration. However, members also are taught to follow the LIVING prophet who today happens to be Hinckley. But you will find no inconsistencies between the teachings of Joseph Smith and Gordon B. Hinckley as it pertains to the gospel of Jesus Christ. (But I can guess what's coming next!)
kadzbiz
..........................
If you've been around many LDS people you will recognize that they revere the prophet Joseph Smith. He is considered the great prophet of the restoration. However, members also are taught to follow the LIVING prophet who today happens to be Hinckley. But you will find no inconsistencies between the teachings of Joseph Smith and Gordon B. Hinckley as it pertains to the gospel of Jesus Christ. (But I can guess what's coming next!)
Aha, you must be a prophet - or is it me because I knew you would raise that? We don't need to go there today.
Back to Hinckley, how did he get his position and who and how will his predecessor get it?
TrueBlue2
Member
Not if he can back up his claim. Actually, I see a true prophet as one who would boldly proclaim the word of God without fear of reprisal.
TrueBlue2
Member
Aha, you must be a prophet - or is it me because I knew you would raise that? We don't need to go there today.
God's house (church) is a house of order. The church is built on the foundation of apostles and prophets. As in Christ's day the church has a quorum of twelve apostles, and each of these have been ordained as "prophets, seers, and revelators." The senior apostle, not the oldest but the one who has been in the quorum the longest, and with the most experience, is considered to be the next successor to the prophet. This is the revealed order of the church.
Smoke
Done here.
I agree. Unfortunately, no one has ever been able to back up such a claim.
A. Ben-Shema
Active Member
There is only one purpose for a true Spiritual Teacher from God, and that is to reveal (personally) the Sacred Mysteries of the Holy Spirit, i.e. the Light ('Fire') of God - through 'Fire' Baptism/Initiation.
This is also how one might know if a Master is genuine or not.
When one is actually experiencing the Light, there is no more need for books of any kind.
PLU
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
There is only one purpose for a true Spiritual Teacher from God, and that is to reveal (personally) the Sacred Mysteries of the Holy Spirit, i.e. the Light ('Fire') of God - through 'Fire' Baptism/Initiation.
This is also how one might know if a Master is genuine or not.
When one is actually experiencing the Light, there is no more need for books of any kind.
PLU
Who makes the Master in the first place?
As to not being able to write down the Master's words for posterity--balderdash.
Regards,
Scott
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
XX. Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: "Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise." He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 49)
Regards,
Scott
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 49)
Regards,
Scott
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
So how does this guy claim anything specific about God at all?
Is this suggesting that the self-proclaimed prophet's mere presence is proof enough of his truthfulness?
kadzbiz
..........................
Ah, I have dealt with many people who have bodly proclaimed the word of God without the fear of reprisal, shortly before I left them in the hands of psych ward staff.
But they're not recessarily considered a prophet are they?
TrueBlue2
Member
No. They hold all the keys of the office. They are very capable men. As it pertains to revelation I believe that God can and will inspire any truth seeker (even you
). Revelation is given to other men within their sphere of influence (a bishop of a small congregation, for example. As it pertains to the entire church or kingdom, the revelation only comes to one individual at a time - the Prophet.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Greetings!
You couldn't be more wrong!
It speaks of rejecting FALSE prophets.
But it also specifically says "Test the spirits!" and further, promises "Seek and ye shall find!"
It also gives tests for determining TRUE prophets, including things like the "by their fruits" test along with the associated list of fruits listed in Galatians, and also gives First John 4:2 as an acid test for who is of God!
There are also numerous Biblical prophecies about the One Christ promised to send us!
So I wish you good hunting!
Best,
Bruce
You couldn't be more wrong!
It speaks of rejecting FALSE prophets.
But it also specifically says "Test the spirits!" and further, promises "Seek and ye shall find!"
It also gives tests for determining TRUE prophets, including things like the "by their fruits" test along with the associated list of fruits listed in Galatians, and also gives First John 4:2 as an acid test for who is of God!
There are also numerous Biblical prophecies about the One Christ promised to send us!
So I wish you good hunting!
Best,
Bruce
TrueBlue2
Member
Greetings!
You couldn't be more wrong!
It speaks of rejecting FALSE prophets.
But it also specifically says "Test the spirits!" and further, promises "Seek and ye shall find!"
It also gives tests for determining TRUE prophets, including things like the "by their fruits" test along with the associated list of fruits listed in Galatians, and also gives First John 4:2 as an acid test for who is of God!
There are also numerous Biblical prophecies about the One Christ promised to send us!
So I wish you good hunting!
Best,
Bruce
I agree with all this Bruce. Thanks.