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Modern man like footprints found, evolution theory in doubt.

stevevw

Member
If the prints are newly discovered, then no, it has not been “securely dated”.

There would also be barrages of more tests, before it can be considered “securely dated”, especially like metis say, if the dating methods have such a huge “degree of error”.

The margin of error should be a lot smaller than the current age given.

You do know what metis is talking about, when he referred to “degree of error”, don’t you?

It is basic science and engineering practices, when measuring anything, to include plus-and-minus value to any measurement, including that measuring the age.

For instance, the age of the Earth would be given as -

4.54±0.04 bya​

The degree of error is “±0.04 bya“ or “± 40 million years”. This is a degree of error at about 1%, which is the norm for scientific researches.

If the age is given “±1 bya”, then the degree of error is way too large.

In your article, the age of 5.6 million years with ±3 million years, there is something wrong with such large degree of error.
I think you may have the wrong article or have misunderstood the original article and how they dated the footprints. The footprints are dated at 5.7 million years and have not used any radiometric dating or similar but used the layers they were found in which have already been securely dated and accepted for a long time because of the type of marine fossils in them above and below the footprints as well as the fact that the footprints also lie just below a destictive sedimentary rock layer formed when the Mediterranean sea dried up which has also been previously accepted as correct. The + or - period was for the time period of the total area not for the footprints themselves. The foot prints were actually ranged between 8.5 and 5.6 based on a number of factors so has a possible time period assessed as older than stated. But they conclude that the exact time period is 5.7ma in amoung those possibilities becuase of the closeness to the dry up of the Mediterranean sea which is a more secure measuremnet.

Its position close to the Hellenikon Group contact suggests that it represents the latest part of that interval, immediately prior to the desiccation event (Fig. 4b); to reflect this, we approximate its age as 5.7 Ma.

These factors have previously been accepted and used for dating other fossils and times so if it is good enough for that then it must be good enough for the dating of the footprints otherwise the many other datings and fossils in that period can also be excluded as wrong. But I doubt that because they contain a lot of other supports that need to be maintained. The fact is the layers have already been accepted as the correct time period from other sources over a very long period and have held up. As stated by the article

However, the Trachilos footprints are securely dated using a combination of foraminifera (marine microfossils) from over- and underlying beds, plus the fact that they lie just below a very distinctive sedimentary rock formed when the Mediterranean Sea briefly dried out, 5.6 million years ago.

Another thing that makes sense with the correct time period for dating is the fact that the footprints were found in sand during the Miocene period when there were savanahs which extended up from North Africa and around the eastern Mediterranean which had sandy enviroments. Crete where the footprints were found had not yet detached from the mainland making it possible for creatures to access the area where the prints were found.

During the time when the Trachilos footprints were made, a period known as the late Miocene, the Sahara Desert did not exist; savannah-like environments extended from North Africa up around the eastern Mediterranean. Furthermore, Crete had not yet detached from the Greek mainland. It is thus not difficult to see how early hominins could have ranged across south-east Europe and well as Africa, and left their footprints on a Mediterranean shore that would one day form part of the island of Crete.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170831134221.htm
Possible hominin footprints from the late Miocene (c. 5.7 Ma) of Crete?
 
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dad1

Active Member
Been there done that. You have been shown how distant novae have been tested.
False. Whatever you think they were tested for does not include time, and how distant they are depends on that. Be honest.
Assumptions of the sort that you mentioned are not allowed in the scientific method.
The issue is not what 'is allowed' in a limited method. The issue is what is known regardless.


We can observe the past too.
Yes, we can. How far back and what we see is the issue.

And dad, where is the evidence for a "different state past"? Since the Bible is in doubt it is not a valid source of evidence.
For those who deny bible and history, you can stick to the limited science you hold dear. That is fine. In that case you will have to remain ignorant though because science doesn't cover it.
Believe whatever you like.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Sometimes I read through creationists' posts here and think to myself......man, I sure am glad these people aren't on my side. :cool:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
False. Whatever you think they were tested for does not include time, and how distant they are depends on that. Be honest.
The issue is not what 'is allowed' in a limited method. The issue is what is known regardless.[/quoite]

They have been. Just because someone does not understand those tests does not mean that they have not been done. I can't help denial.

Yes, we can. How far back and what we see is the issue.

Since it takes time for light to travel anything that we see is "in the past". If someone wants to claim a "different state" the burden of proof is upon that person. If I say I can't see a change in state and treat all observations equally I am not making a claim about the past. I have no burden of proof.

So where is the evidence of a "different state" past?

For those who deny bible and history, you can stick to the limited science you hold dear. That is fine. In that case you will have to remain ignorant though because science doesn't cover it.
Believe whatever you like.

The Bible is clearly a flawed source. We have been over this countless times with failed prophecies that cannot be explained, bad science that no one accepts, bad morals that would put anyone in jail that applied them and countless other problems with that book that make it worthless in a debate. Of course if someone wants to make claims about the Bible being a flawless source once again the burden of proof is upon that person.

Where is the evidence that supports the Bible?
 

dad1

Active Member
We only ever saw light travel on or near earth and the solar system area. Here time does exist. Beyond that you can't say how much time is involved in any travel...or anything else. Hoo ha.

As for your bad mouthing the bible, sorry, you have the wrong number. Save your little tirades for someone else.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We only ever saw light travel on or near earth and the solar system area. Here time does exist. Beyond that you can't say how much time is involved in any travel...or anything else. Hoo ha.

As for your bad mouthing the bible, sorry, you have the wrong number. Save your little tirades for someone else.

Once again, if you want to claim that conditions are different elsewhere the burden of proof is upon you. I have evidence for my claims. All you have is a book of myths.
 

dad1

Active Member
Once again, if you want to claim that conditions are different elsewhere the burden of proof is upon you. I have evidence for my claims. All you have is a book of myths.
I ask why you claim as science that nature was the same. You do not know. Either we know or not. If we do not know, we simply just believe. I believe God is not a liar so I have no reason to assume that history and the bible record of the past, which are of a different nature, are not accurate. Science doesn't know . Period.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I ask why you claim as science that nature was the same.

Because the evidence supports that claim.

You do not know.

Actually I do know. You may not know. Once again the evidence supports that claim.

Either we know or not.

No, this is an error. It is called a black and white fallcy:

Your logical fallacy is black or white

If not, we believe. I believe God is not a liar so I have no reason to assume that history and the bible record of the past, which are of a different nature, are not accurate. Science doesn't know . Period.

But your argument states that God is a liar. The evidence all supports my claim and by your reasoning God had to make that evidence. Therefore you are calling God a liar. Logic, as well as evidence, is on my side.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
We only ever saw light travel on or near earth and the solar system area. Here time does exist. Beyond that you can't say how much time is involved in any travel...or anything else. Hoo ha.

As for your bad mouthing the bible, sorry, you have the wrong number. Save your little tirades for someone else.
The bible is a collection of folk and fairy tales. That is not bad mouthing, that is just fact. You turn it into bad mouthing by striving to make your bible something it never was and never will be. The issue is with your presupposition prior to reading your bible.
 

dad1

Active Member
Because the evidence supports that claim.



Actually I do know. You may not know. Once again the evidence supports that claim.



No, this is an error. It is called a black and white fallcy:

Your logical fallacy is black or white



But your argument states that God is a liar. The evidence all supports my claim and by your reasoning God had to make that evidence. Therefore you are calling God a liar. Logic, as well as evidence, is on my side.
You posted no evidence for a same state past. Gong
 

dad1

Active Member
The bible is a collection of folk and fairy tales. That is not bad mouthing, that is just fact. You turn it into bad mouthing by striving to make your bible something it never was and never will be. The issue is with your presupposition prior to reading your bible.
The bible is true. I know. Peddle your dark doubts elsewhere.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You posted no evidence for a same state past. Gong

I could. Would you understand it? But since you are the one making the extraordinary claim I don't need to. You are the one that needs evidence for your claims, until then you lose.

And as usual every time that you lose you ring your gong.

Thank you for admitting your loss.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The bible is true. I know. Peddle your dark doubts elsewhere.


Prove it. You know that it is filled with failed prophesies, bad morals, and worse science. The Bible fails on all levels if one insists that it be read literally. There is some good in the Bible, but one has to thresh quite a lot of wheat to pick out the few grains of wisdom from the massive amounts of chaff in it.
 

dad1

Active Member
I could. Would you understand it? But since you are the one making the extraordinary claim I don't need to. You are the one that needs evidence for your claims, until then you lose.

And as usual every time that you lose you ring your gong.

Thank you for admitting your loss.
My claim is that science doesn't know the nature of the past. Nothing extraordinary about that.
 

dad1

Active Member
Prove it. You know that it is filled with failed prophesies, bad morals, and worse science. The Bible fails on all levels if one insists that it be read literally. There is some good in the Bible, but one has to thresh quite a lot of wheat to pick out the few grains of wisdom from the massive amounts of chaff in it.
Far as I know the amazing fulfilled prophesies of the bible, and power of the living words today make the power of the sun look like a flashlight battery. Your vague accusations are garbage. But maybe find someone who takes you seriously and chat it up with them.
 

dad1

Active Member
You shoulders are not broad enough and your credibility is not high enough make your pronouncement worth attending to.
You are entitled to your opinions of the bible. Not that it has anything to do with who made the footprints in the OP. Ho hum.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Far as I know the amazing fulfilled prophesies of the bible, and power of the living words today make the power of the sun look like a flashlight battery. Your vague accusations are garbage. But maybe find someone who takes you seriously and chat it up with them.

Yet you can't name any and I can and have wiped the floor with you when it comes to failed prophecies.

Until you find some evidence, you lose.
 
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