Modesty In Islam

[Storm]

So, with the kind assistance of several of our Muslim brethren, I now understand why modesty is important.

Since the DIR thread threatened to veer into debate, I've been encouraged to start this one. Happy to oblige! :angel2:

So, while I don't dispute the emphasis on modesty, I do wonder why it clings to ancient fashion.

Take the hijab. It's gone from being an item of clothing to the symbol of Islamic womanhood. Certain (misguided) Western institution try to ban it, while certain (also misguided) Islamic nations mandate it. A lot of fuss for a piece of clothing, don't you think?

Anyway, one of the explanations was that values don't change. I think that's obviously incorrect, as it should be. Society progresses, and Muslims are not immune.

That said, fashion doesn't hurt anyone. If Muslims prefer to clothe themselves traditionally, what's the big deal?

 

[Oneatatime]

Do you mean within Muslim communities or in general? If in general could you provide a brief summary of why modesty by Islamic standards is important?

On the issue of Islamic dress it does seem to be more a case of tradition than anything else but I do occasionally see what I assume to be Muslim women dressed in colourful cloths. Strict adherence to the black is seems to be more of an issue in more conservative countries and communities.

The area where I work is very multicultural and I often see women fully covered up but it doesn't bother. I don't really see what the fuss is all about personally. Unless a woman is being forced to wear it against her will I don't see that its anybody elses concern.

 

[Storm]

Do you mean within Muslim communities or in general?

As a point of Islamic morality.

If in general could you provide a brief summary of why modesty by Islamic standards is important?

In short, because they believe the glory of God's handiwork is best celebrated privately.

On the issue of Islamic dress it does seem to be more a case of tradition than anything else but I do occasionally see what I assume to be Muslim women dressed in colourful cloths. Strict adherence to the black is seems to be more of an issue in more conservative countries and communities.

The area where I work is very multicultural and I often see women fully covered up but it doesn't bother. I don't really see what the fuss is all about personally. Unless a woman is being forced to wear it against her will I don't see that its anybody elses concern.

Agreed.

 

[Yerda]

If Muslims prefer to clothe themselves traditionally, what's the big deal?

The only problem that I percieve is the men forcing the women to dress that way.

I say we should all get ultra traditional and dress like Tarzan.

 

[Vendetta]

Remember Islam stems from patriarchal tradition so the emphasis on how women dress is perhaps more emphasized than anything else.

 

[outhouse]

A lot of fuss for a piece of clothing, don't you think?

I do think. It is allot of fuss


Its a lack of freedom in my eyes

what's the big deal?

The only negative I see is they want special treatment in some sports that require a dress code

the lack of freedom without social or cultural punishement

 

[beenie]

The area where I work is very multicultural and I often see women fully covered up but it doesn't bother. I don't really see what the fuss is all about personally. Unless a woman is being forced to wear it against her will I don't see that its anybody elses concern.

The only problem that I percieve is the men forcing the women to dress that way.

I agree with both of these statements.

Modesty is important, but it goes beyond clothing; it's actions too. Modesty is also stressed for men as well...often overlooked by most people.

 

[maro]

So, while I don't dispute the emphasis on modesty, I do wonder why it clings to ancient fashion.

storm ,i don't wear ancient fashion . I wear modern and fashionable clothes ,and yet modest...so do Sahar and Peace...and so do many educated classy muslim women .

Anyway, one of the explanations was that values don't change. I think that's obviously incorrect, as it should be. Society progresses, and Muslims are not immune.

When you believe your values stem from a divine revealation , that makes them immune from being changed

I also agree that 'Modesty' is a value that goes beyond the dresscode...and is not restricted to women

 

[sojourner]

If Muslims prefer to clothe themselves traditionally, what's the big deal?

For the same reason that some schools don't allow students to wear known gang colors.

I understand from NPR yesterday that Australia has succeeded in banning the veil, after a woman accused of assaulting a police officer was acquitted following the judge's decision that a positive ID could not be established. When the clothing becomes more than just a simple statement of faith, it can become problematic.

 

[beenie]

storm ,i don't wear ancient fashion . I wear modern and fashionable clothes ,and yet modest...so do Sahar and Peace...and so do many educated classy muslim women .

Don't forget me.

 

[Storm]

storm ,i don't wear ancient fashion . I wear modern and fashionable clothes ,and yet modest...so do Sahar and Peace...and so do many educated classy muslim women .

What I meant was that, to my admittedly limited understanding, the basic design hasn't changed much. Loose, flowing garments with veils of varying coverage.

They're quite pretty, not that it matters.

In contrast, Western dress has gone through much wilder variations.

 

[beenie]

Storm, women can wear pants, dresses, jeans, tops, dresses, saris, shalwar qamees (Pakistani dress), abayas...all modestly and appropriate. Most dress is culturally driven, but with the same goal in mind to be modest. Of course, just like any culture/religion, it will vary from liberal to conservative. Some will wear full head to toe covering, and some won't.

 

[outhouse]

Modesty is important,

Just how important is modesty???

 

[beenie]

Just how important is modesty???

It varies from person to person, culture to culture. To understand Islamic thinking, you have to understand the culture in which you're questioning. There are progressive Islamic societies and very primitive ones. In order to understand why modesty is so important to some, you have to understand how those cultures operate in general...and from where they originated.

 

[outhouse]

It varies from person to person, culture to culture. To understand Islamic thinking, you have to understand the culture in which you're questioning. There are progressive Islamic societies and very primitive ones. In order to understand why modesty is so important to some, you have to understand how those cultures operate in general...and from where they originated.

I understand that, I have muslim family and try not to stereotype.

I was curious why "you" stated modesty is important

 

[Storm]

Storm, women can wear pants, dresses, jeans, tops, dresses, saris, shalwar qamees (Pakistani dress), abayas...all modestly and appropriate. Most dress is culturally driven, but with the same goal in mind to be modest. Of course, just like any culture/religion, it will vary from liberal to conservative. Some will wear full head to toe covering, and some won't.

I thought pants were frowned on?

This is why I didn't want to start with debate.

 

[Erebus]

It's a tricky issue in my view largely because of the need to see a person's face for so many things in the west. Covering hair etc shouldn't be a problem at all in my eyes, but clothing that covers most or all of the face can be. Throw in the fact that here in the UK a lot of places won't allow you to even wear a hood and it becomes even more problematic.

Personally I would like for people to be able to wear what they want, but unfortunately some people will always abuse that.

 

[beenie]

I understand that, I have muslim family and try not to stereotype.

I was curious why "you" stated modesty is important

I stated it's important because our doctrine says modesty is important. I just feel that it's over-emphasized and modesty is so variable based on culture and individual comfort. i'm outgoing, but modest as well. It's possible to be both.

I thought pants were frowned on?

This is why I didn't want to start with debate.

There is no evidence that pants are not allowed in Islam; it's all interpretation-based. Again, culture is a huge factor. Wearing pants in Saudi Arabia would certainly draw more attention than wearing pants in Egypt, Syria, Turkey, etc.

 

[Storm]

There is no evidence that pants are not allowed in Islam; it's all interpretation-based. Again, culture is a huge factor. Wearing pants in Saudi Arabia would certainly draw more attention than wearing pants in Egypt, Syria, Turkey, etc.

I'm beginning to think the community center across the street is not a good resource....

 

[Oneatatime]

For the same reason that some schools don't allow students to wear known gang colors.

I understand from NPR yesterday that Australia has succeeded in banning the veil, after a woman accused of assaulting a police officer was acquitted following the judge's decision that a positive ID could not be established. When the clothing becomes more than just a simple statement of faith, it can become problematic.

If the charges were dropped on that basis then they couldn't have had that good a case against her.

Even if she had done it I don't think one women wearing a veil assaulting a police officer and getting away with it justifies a ban on wearing veils. The acceptance of such weak justification opens the door for all kind of harrassment of groups when one of their members steps out of line.

I can't help but feel that those who wanted to ban the veil have exploited anything, no matter how feeble, to justify their position.