Modesty In Islam

[maro]

Don't forget me.

Oops !

What I meant was that, to my admittedly limited understanding, the basic design hasn't changed much. Loose, flowing garments with veils of varying coverage.

They're quite pretty, not that it matters.

In contrast, Western dress has gone through much wilder variations

They have to be loose and covering to hide the woman's charms .
the variation can still be made in colours and designs ,as long as they are loose and covering
and we can still wear whatever we want in our homes

I know Hiding a woman's charms may seem unnecessary to you...but this is a value we belive is important for keeping the individuals close to Allah ,the families coherent and happy ,and keep the society from many social perils

 

[Storm]

Oops !



They have to be loose and covering to hide the woman's charms .
the variation can still be made in colours and designs ,as long as they are loose and covering
and we can still wear whatever we want in our homes

I know Hiding a woman's charms may seem unnecessary to you...but this is a value we belive is important for keeping the individuals close to Allah ,the families coherent and happy ,and keep the society from many social perils

ssainhu just pointed out that Muslim modesty is broader than I thought.

the Islamic community center I visited requires all women to wear salwar kameez and hijab, even if they're visiting unbelievers. I assumed this was typical.

 

[beenie]

ssainhu just pointed out that Muslim modesty is broader than I thought.

the Islamic community center I visited requires all women to wear salwar kameez and hijab, even if they're visiting unbelievers. I assumed this was typical.

That's cultural. The Islamic center must be run by Indo-Pakistanis. It is out of respect to cover hair within a mosque/Islamic center (some do require it, some don't), but the shalwar kameez is entirely 100% culture-driven.

 

[Storm]

Is the fact that they require it of visitors a bad sign to a liberal like me?

I'm starting to think I should go elsewhere in my studies.....

 

[beenie]

Is the fact that they require it of visitors a bad sign to a liberal like me?

I'm starting to think I should go elsewhere in my studies.....

They require NON-MUSLIMS to wear a shalwar kameez and a hijab just to visit? If they ask that of Muslims, it's justifiable, but of non-Muslims...that's just nonsense. Do you even own a shalwar kameez? Are you supposed to buy one to visit?

People never cease to amaze me.

 

[Storm]

They require NON-MUSLIMS to wear a shalwar kameez and a hijab just to visit? If they ask that of Muslims, it's justifiable, but of non-Muslims...that's just nonsense. Do you even own a shalwar kameez? Are you supposed to buy one to visit?

People never cease to amaze me.

That's the dress code they posted, yeah.

I kinda improvised... I have long loose dresses, and trousers. I looked kinda silly 'cause they didn't really match, but I was trying....

 

[beenie]

I'd ask, very clearly, if they expect that of you. My educated guess is that the posted dress code is intended for the Muslim members, not non-Muslim guests. Definitely ask to be clear. We may be assuming something they haven't intended.

 

[Storm]

I'd ask, very clearly, if they expect that of you. My educated guess is that the posted dress code is intended for the Muslim members, not non-Muslim guests. Definitely ask to be clear. We may be assuming something they haven't intended.

No, it said clearly "all women." They even have loaner hijab for visitors.

 

[beenie]

No, it said clearly "all women." They even have loaner hijab for visitors.

Ugh, there is so much wrong with that I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Storm]

You see why I was so confused? I thought it was typical.

 

[beenie]

It's not typical, it's cultural in this case.

 

[Storm]

OK. Thank you.

 

[beenie]

Sure thing.

 

[beenie]

This is yet another case that leads back to Caladan's excellent suggestion to read about pre-Islamic and early Islamic cultures as well as contemporary articles, books, etc. about current cultural practices to understand WHY certain cultures hang on to traditions we see as "archaic". Progressive societies would not require these trivial adherences, especially from non-Muslims.

 

[beenie]

Sorry for the triple post...thoughts keep coming.

It is NOT out of the norm for people, even non-Muslims to cover their hair in a mosque when they enter the actual prayer area AND when there is a religious ceremony (prayer, weddings) any time there is Qur'anic recitation. Outside of that, it's not the norm to ask when in the common areas and even within the mosque if there is no activity going on in there. However, even in this instance, it may be asked, but NEVER forced. I've seen non-Muslims observing the prayer from the back of a mosque without wearing Islamic dress or the hijab. Most of them do, however, not out of force, but they ask themselves out of respect.

Do you see the difference?

 

[Storm]

Sorry for the triple post...thoughts keep coming.

No worries!

It is NOT out of the norm for people, even non-Muslims to cover their hair in a mosque when they enter the actual prayer area AND when there is a religious ceremony (prayer, weddings) any time there is Qur'anic recitation. Outside of that, it's not the norm to ask when in the common areas and even within the mosque if there is no activity going on in there. However, even in this instance, it may be asked, but NEVER forced. I've seen non-Muslims observing the prayer from the back of a mosque without wearing Islamic dress or the hijab. Most of them do, however, not out of force, but they ask themselves out of respect.

Of course.

Do you see the difference?

Yeah... that's why I asked about emulation in the DIR.

 

[LuisDantas]

You know, I sympathize with the desire for keeping people honest and well-meaning. I truly do.

Yet at the same time, I don't think simply being careful to follow certain rules is very useful.

Rules are no substitute to inspiration, nor to moral virtues proper. At best they work as deterrents to avoid harm when people aren't capable of knowing better by other means.

If I can give myself as an example, I can easily feel attracted by women who cover most of their faces but their eyes; eyes are often very exciting indeed, and most men can tell you how difficult it can be to avoid imagining the charms of a hidden body. Yet I have also on occasion had the opportunity to peek at the bodies of women that I know for a fact to be very attractive, yet chosen to avoid doing so out of respect.

Granted, I don't personaly believe that it is necessarily disrespectful to appreciate the beauty of a woman who is not my wife or close family. But neither am I unaware of the dangers of going by my instincts alone. Respect is not at all the same thing as obeying rules.

What I mean is that I don't expect people to rely on rules for me to behave, nor do I think any rules would necessarily make a better person out of me. Rules are often, if not usually, prone to misuse and abuse.

When you believe your values stem from a divine revelation, that makes them immune from being changed

It is my understanding that this statement of yours is a fair description of the Muslim stance on that matter, but isn't it a bit more specific than just being originated by divine revelation?

It could conceivably happen of moral values learned due to a divine revelation being valid yet also suitable to some degree of revision or perhaps even becoming obsolete due to cultural change.

For what it is worth, it happens often enough with human laws.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

For the same reason that some schools don't allow students to wear known gang colors.

I understand from NPR yesterday that Australia has succeeded in banning the veil, after a woman accused of assaulting a police officer was acquitted following the judge's decision that a positive ID could not be established. When the clothing becomes more than just a simple statement of faith, it can become problematic.

Australia has not banned anything...
The law has been changed to give police the right to have any face coverings removed for identification. This was agreed with Muslim leaders in the country.

 

[Peace]

I thought pants were frowned on?

This is why I didn't want to start with debate.

Storm, these are the requirements of the hijab:

• Covering the whole body except the face and the hands
• The hair should be covered along with the ears, neck and chest.
• The clothing should not be transparent and should be loose in order not to describe the body of the woman.
• The woman should not wear make up while in public.

We have these requirements, so we multiple choice to choose the dresses that we like, modern and fashionable, and which meet the hijab requirements at the same time. For example, I do wear trousers but I wear with them shirts, dresses... that are loose and long under the knees.

But one should know that wearing the hijab and being modest doesn't mean only the covering but also good manners and behaviors. Hijab is an entire way of dressing, believing and behaving.

 

[Peace]

You see why I was so confused? I thought it was typical.

You could visit another Islamic center, which should be for all Muslims and non-Muslims, if there is any one nearby.