Altfish
Veteran Member
So what use is the prophecy?
It has to make sense BEFORE it happens so that people can make decisions based on it.
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Mohammad in the Bible...
- Thread starter MyM
- Start date
It has to make sense BEFORE it happens so that people can make decisions based on it.
Thanks for being patient. I finally have time to discuss this in detail.
The interpretation of Song of Songs as a parable of the Exodus is an ancient Jewish one and brought in a number of midrashim. For example:
Shir Hashirim Rabbah 1:2:1:
"“Let him give me of the kisses of his mouth!” Where was this said? Rabbi Chinena bar Papa said: At the Sea it was said, as it is written: "I have likened you, my darling, to a mare in Pharaoh’s chariots"..."
Ibid. 2:14:3:
"Rabbi Elazar interpreted the passage with reference to [the Children of] Israel at the time when they were standing [to cross] the sea. [When the verse says:] "O my dove, in the cranny of the rocks..." it is because [the Israelites] were hidden within the [split] sea. "Let me see your face" is that which is referred to in "Stand by, and witness the deliverance of the LORD..." (Exodus 14:13). "Let me hear your voice" is talking of the Song of the Sea (Exodus 15:1) [where it says]: "Then Moses and the Israelites sang...". "For your voice is sweet" is talking of [other occasions of] their singing. "And your face is comely" - because the Israelites saw [the wonders performed by] God's 'finger' and said: "This is my God and I will enshrine Him..." (Exodus 15:2)"
Tanchuma (Buber) Toldot 18:1:
"(Cant. 5:2, cont.) THE SOUND OF MY BELOVED KNOCKING. This refers to Moses, since it is stated (in Exod. 11:4): THEN MOSES SAID: THUS SAYS THE LORD: ABOUT MIDNIGHT < I SHALL GO FORTH INTO THE MIDST OF EGYPT >. (Cant. 5:2, cont.) OPEN FOR ME. R. Jose said: The Holy One said: Make an opening for me as with the point of a needle so that I may open up [an opening] for you through which tents and {siege fortifications} [< even > a camp] (Cant. 5:2, cont.) MY SISTER (rt.: 'H), < so named > in Egypt, where they became grafted (rt.: 'HH) to me by < performing > two commandments through the blood of the paschal offering and through the blood of circumcision. (Ibid., cont.) MY BELOVED (rt.: R'H): They became beloved (rt.: R'H) to him at the sea and said (in Exod. 15:18): THE LORD SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER. (Cant. 5:2, cont.) MY DOVE, < so named > in Marah where they were given orders for me like a dove through commandments (see Exod. 15:23-25) (Cant. 5:2, cont.) MY INNOCENT, because they became innocent to me at Sinai and said (in Exod. 24:7): ALL THAT THE LORD HAS SPOKEN WE WILL DO AND OBEY. (Cant. 5:2, cont.) FOR MY HEAD IS DRENCHED WITH DEW, since it is stated (in Jud. 5:4): EVEN THE HEAVENS DRIPPED."
Mechilta D'Rabbi Yishmael 15:2:2:
"...Yes will see Jerusalem, the peaceful habitation" (neveh sha'anan). R. Akiva says: "I shall speak of His beauty" — of the praise of the Holy One Blessed be He, who spoke and brought the world into being. The peoples of the world ask Israel (Song of Songs 5:9) "How is your Beloved (different) from the beloved (of all the other nations) that you have thus besworn us? (see Ibid. 8) that you thus die for Him and are thus murdered for Him, viz. (Ibid. 1:3) "alamoth have loved You" — they have loved You "al maveth" ("above death"), and (Psalms 44:23) "for over You we are slain all the day"? You are comely, you are strong. Come and join us. And Israel says to them: Do you know Him? Let us tell you part of His praise (Song of Songs 5:10) "My Beloved is white and ruddy, distinguished among legions." When they hear this, they say to Israel: Let us go with you, viz. (Ibid. 6:1) "Where did your Beloved go, you loveliest among the women? Whither has your Beloved turned? Let us seek Him with you." And Israel says to them (Ibid. 2:16) "My Beloved is mine, and I am His," and (Ibid. 6:3) "I am my Beloved's, and my Beloved is mine, who grazes His flock among the lilies." And the sages say (on "ve'anvehu"): "I shall accompany Him ("alavenhu") until I come with Him to His Temple. An analogy: A king's son goes abroad — he goes after him and attends upon him. He goes to a different city — he goes after him and attends upon him. Thus with Israel. When they went down to Egypt, the Shechinah was with them, viz. (Genesis 46:4) "I shall go down with you to Egypt." When they went up, the Shechinah went up with them, viz. (Ibid.) "and I shall also bring you up." When they went down to the sea, the Shechinah was with them, viz. (Exodus 14:19) "And the angel of G-d, who went before the camp of Israel, etc." When they went out to the desert, the Shechinah was with them, viz. (Ibid. 13:21) "And the Lord went before them by day, etc." — until they brought Him with them to His holy Temple, viz..."
And so forth. As you can see from these examples, the sages explained each verse as referring to a particular stage of the story of the Exodus.
There are other ancient interpretations of Song of Songs, mostly as allegories of other events (such as the Sinai Event or the building of the Tabernacle), but typically the beloved is still understood to being God and the bride is understood as the People of Israel. Such a relationship between Israel and God may be found in the words of the prophets. For example:
Hoshea 2:16-18:
"Assuredly, I will speak coaxingly to her and lead her through the wilderness and speak to her tenderly. I will give her her vineyards from there, and the Valley of Achor as a plowland of hope. There she shall respond as in the days of her youth, when she came up from the land of Egypt. And in that day—declares the LORD—You will call [Me] Ishi, and no more will you call Me Baali." (Both Ishi and Baali mean “my husband,” but the latter also means “my Baal.”)
Yirmiyahu 2:2:
"Go proclaim to Jerusalem: Thus said the LORD: I accounted to your favor the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride—how you followed Me in the wilderness, in a land not sown."
Anything else you'd like to know?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Song of Solomon 5;16 uses the word מַֽחֲמַדִּ֑ים (mahamadim) which translates as "altogether lovely." It is stating that Solomon, the groom, is altogether lovely.
1. It makes no sense to say that Solomon is Muhamed.
2. If you want to read it as muhamad, the IM at the end of the word would indicate a plural: MuhamedS. That makes no sense either.
So no, the name of Muhamed is NOT in the bible.
Triumph
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Moses died not allowed to have the promised land Moses believed Lord God would give to him because it was promised to him.
Why praise or believe in a man that God rejected? If a promise can be broken and not upheld then it has no meaning because it was a lie and not a real promise that can not be broken. Moses believed lies were truth.
firedragon
Veteran Member
ON your plural argument, does it not become a pluralis majestatis sort of thing? If not, will it not mean the plural of altogether beautiful if its a plural of numbers?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe they are usually referred to as that.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I don't remember a promise being made. There was definitely a command to lead the people.
I believe God did not reject Moses. He punished him for a lack of obedience. As Hebrews says a father will discipline his son if he loves him.
Moses believed God and for that was considered righteous.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe prophecy can help figure out what is going on while it is happening. However a good deal of prophecy is straight forward and a warning that should be heeded.
I believe the most notable one of Isaiah was never meant to be understood until after because it would have messed up the plan for Jesus to be crucified.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Give me an example of this 'good deal of prophecy being straight forward ...'
Are they historical figures?.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No. We don't make plurals of names.
Triumph
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Moses killed a man in Egypt and ran and hid from justice for the murder. It is wrong to strike a man but that is not a death penalty error.
Murder carries a death penalty and is in total disobedience to the command of God to not kill. Moses did not want to obey God or uphold justice. Moses wanted to do as Moses pleased without punishment. The people following Moses saw him commit murder and feared for their own life by a man that will not hold himself accountable for his crimes. That is why they left seeking another God to worship, because they saw the man that was leading them was evil not righteous as Moses claimed. God knew what happened and gave the 10 commandments to Moses as the Laws to live by except Moses the murderer did not want to show the command not to kill to thousands of people he wanted to kill for leaving his command. So Moses destroyed the tablets, Words of GOD, so the people would not see them and commanded brother to kill brother and friend to kill friend until all that were left were heartless murderers that would obey the command of a heartless disobedient to God murderer.
God told Moses to show the commandments to the people and Moses refused to obey God because Moses wanted to lead killers willing to kill anyone if Moses told them to kill. Moses is Satanic not righteous and only proclaims he is righteous because that murderer willing to kill his people has no problem lying to them.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I didnt say "Its a name".
The question I asked was, if its a plural in numbers, is it a plural of "altogether beautiful"? Does that mean there were many Solomons? Or one Solomon was a plural of "altogether beautiful"?
Spoken like someone who has never read the Bible. What tales you weave.
Que diable?
Triumph
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Most people that read the Bible do it blind to what is being said. Just because a man has his scribes write he is righteous does not mean he is and that is why Jesus said WOE to Scribes. Scribes will write what they are told to write by their superiors out of fear for their own life.
Jesus wants people to look at the spirit within a man to see if his actions are good or evil. Destroying the tablets, Words of God, Good or Evil action?
Do you think God is pleased with it and the disobedience of Moses that refused to show the tablets to the people so they could see the 10 Commandments of God?
Moses never repented of that disobedience just like he never repented for killing the man in Egypt. Moses never repented for killing anyone.
And by the way, that gold taken out of Egypt he said was "borrowed" but had no intention of ever returning that gold that he demonically had beaten to powder forcing the people he was about to have murdered to drink it. Bodies thrown on a burning pyre would leave that melted gold behind so Moses could collect it after making the point to the survivors what happens when people take Gold away from Moses. Moses expected to end up owning that gold because Moses had written laws that people were required to pay money to Moses and his brother for their sins. Moses saw that stolen from Egypt gold as HIS gold. Moses loved gold more than human life. Jesus said all that came before Jesus were robbers and thieves.
*Snort* Per your logic, I can read whatever I want into your NT. Jesus was a heretical Chinese-Canadian hippie priest, son of a Norse Viking and a Samaritan woman who robbed the poor and gave money to his fellow commune brothers.
Triumph
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
A lot of people have described Jesus in terms he refused to accept. But as a prophet with compassion, Jesus did tell people what is going to happen in the future final war (which is nuclear WW3) if Jesus is not believed and followed.
Jesus never robbed anyone. Jesus is not the Son of man, killer thief, and asks why people think he is. He is called the Son of man but is not. The Son of man is a lost Lamb that will lead nations to battle in WW3 and he will die in it, slain. but he lies saying he will win it to get people to fight and die to support him.
The Son of God does not fight in WW3 but does return to Earth after that war starts to collect and mercifully remove his selected followers from a doomed by the hand of man planet. The ecology of Earth is destroyed in WW3 and will never recover as it will become unable to sustain biological life.
Triumph
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
A Seraphim is a fighter jet like a F-35 that flies with DAS, placed in the exact positions described in the Bible, in twain= 2 units each.
The jet flies with DAS in twain, 2 jets together to use DAS to locate and destroy tanks, missiles and other fighter jets.
It comes in clouds, a vapor cone on the wings and sounds like thunder. It has coals of fire beneath the wings, missiles and when those
missiles are fired the jet looks like a candlestick. It is a column of smoke during the day and fire at night.
When it carries a nuclear missile it becomes the cage of everything vile and unclean.
The Seraphim never marries because the pilot=messenger=angel never changes sides in battle and is faithful to it's nation.
Interesting deflection, rather than facing the fallacy of your argument.
What does this have to do with what I said?