Moksha and who is "worthy" of it

[Kalidas]

So now for another one of my complicated questions

Do you think moksha is attainable by other religions? If so which ones?

If not what do you think happens to "good" people who have "matured" spiritually, do they reincarnate as a Hindu?

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

So now for another one of my complicated questions

Do you think moksha is attainable by other religions? If so which ones?

If not what do you think happens to "good" people who have "matured" spiritually, do they reincarnate as a Hindu?

I think "Moksha" is attained only by Vedantins and Budhdhists, and no one else. A good Christian, on the other hand, helps bringing the kingdom of Heaven on Earth. A good Hindu also does that, and much more than that.

Those who attain "moksha" attain it because they really don't want to incarnate again on earth. So instead, they end up into some other prison.

Stagnancy is the real Hell, moving (Yagya) is the real Heaven.

 

[Vinayaka]

So now for another one of my complicated questions

Do you think moksha is attainable by other religions? If so which ones?

If not what do you think happens to "good" people who have "matured" spiritually, do they reincarnate as a Hindu?

What is moksha to you?

As for other religions, I really don't know. If you ask many, since moksha isn't part of their plan, they may not know either.

I can PM you what I think. But that is only one old man's opinion, and it could well be dead wrong.

Everybody (that is, the soul, not this individual ego/one lifetime thingy) is worthy, in fact attains.

 

[Kalidas]

What is moksha to you?

As for other religions, I really don't know. If you ask many, since moksha isn't part of their plan, they may not know either.

I can PM you what I think. But that is only one old man's opinion, and it could well be dead wrong.

Everybody (that is, the soul, not this individual ego/one lifetime thingy) is worthy, in fact attains.

Moksha to me is the liberation from the cycle of birth and death(ending the cycle of reincarnation). It also removes us from the chains of karma. I not 100% sure how this happens, I hear it happens through great understanding, realizing the truths of the universe, and spiritual enlightenment.

Sure you can if you want to, feel free to PM me when ever you want to

Good point, bad choice of words for the title. I meant can a soul in a "non Hindu" body reach it

 

[Valjean]

Moksha is an aftereffect of enlightenment -- samadhi, nirvana -- whatever you choose to call it. It's not a proprietary quality of any particular religion. It's a neurolgic artifact, similar to a type of left temporal seizure.

 

[Ekanta]

Do you think moksha is attainable by other religions? If so which ones?

Moksha is not attained by religions, but by persons. The difference is that in hinduism/buddhism its propagaded straight out and there are detailed explanations, in other religions its between the lines. For example, Jesus said "I and my father are one" [tat tvam asi] and Mansur al-Hallaj said: “Anal-Haq” (I am Truth) [aham brahmasmi]

If not what do you think happens to "good" people who have "matured" spiritually, do they reincarnate as a Hindu?

That you need to reincarnate as hindu is purely a rasist hindu propaganda (I have seen it a lot among "hindu nationalists"). There is not a single hindu saint/scripture who agrees with it.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

All will eventually attain moksha, regardless of their religion today. Now, does one progress to a Hindu right before attaining moksha - I don't believe so. I think as Ekanta said, this concept it one of division, not unity and has no place in Dharmic thought.

I believe people who practice other faiths can attain moksha in this lifetime depending on how they interpret their religion and what steps they take to become self aware. It's not about the label, because you can't fool God.

:camp:

 

[Kalidas]

Moksha is not attained by religions, but by persons. The difference is that in hinduism/buddhism its propagaded straight out and there are detailed explanations, in other religions its between the lines. For example, Jesus said "I and my father are one" [tat tvam asi] and Mansur al-Hallaj said: “Anal-Haq” (I am Truth) [aham brahmasmi]

That you need to reincarnate as hindu is purely a rasist hindu propaganda (I have seen it a lot among "hindu nationalists"). There is not a single hindu saint/scripture who agrees with it.

Man my wording was horrible last night lol. Sorry this question was on my head all day and by the time I got off work (after spending all morning packing) I was sooo exhausted that my ability to write was obviously impaired

Yes of course a Religion does not attain enlightenment a person does. So let me rephrase can a person belonging to any religion attain it. You said yes.

 

[Poeticus]

If not what do you think happens to "good" people who have "matured" spiritually, do they reincarnate as a Hindu?

That you need to reincarnate as hindu is purely a rasist hindu propaganda (I have seen it a lot among "hindu nationalists"). There is not a single hindu saint/scripture who agrees with it.

Are you saying that a person who (has)* to reincarnate as a Hindu being born into an Indian Hindu family in order to attain moksha is racist propaganda? Or, are you saying that to be a Hindu, period, that a person has to born in an Indian Hindu family is racist propaganda?

*has to? needs to? Why "has to"? Can you please clarify?

Let's take a look at the OP:

If not what do you think happens to "good" people who have "matured" spiritually, do they reincarnate as a Hindu?

There is no immediate-need expressed. As in, there is no "has to", "needs to" expressed in the question of the OP quoted above. It simply asks whether if people of other religions that do well spiritually, socially, etc. will be reborn as Hindu....I see nothing being asked about Indian Hindus, and rightly so.

I, personally, would love to reincarnate as a Balinese Hindu. You what that would mean? Surfing at the beaches non-stop.

But, I would rather reincarnate than attain moksha because I don't want it. Dharma (conduct, duty) is more important to me.

There is not a single hindu saint/scripture who agrees with it.

There are many scriptures that express Guna and rebirth into "pious"** families.

**By "pious", I mean Hindu - born into a family that keeps the Vrata-rites and various Samskaras. First one that comes to mind is one of the Upanishads, from 600-400 BCE.

[sarcasm]How unfortunate, eh?[/sarcasm]

 

[Kalidas]

Are you saying that a person who (has)* to reincarnate as a Hindu being born into an Indian Hindu family in order to attain moksha is racist propaganda? Or, are you saying that to be a Hindu, period, that a person has to born in an Indian Hindu family is racist propaganda?

*has to? needs to? Why "has to"? Can you please clarify?

Let's take a look at the OP:


There is no immediate-need expressed. As in, there is no "has to", "needs to" expressed in the question of the OP quoted above. It simply asks whether if people of other religions that do well spiritually, socially, etc. will be reborn as Hindu....I see nothing being asked about Indian Hindus, and rightly so.

I, personally, would love to reincarnate as a Balinese Hindu. You what that would mean? Surfing at the beaches non-stop.

But, I would rather reincarnate than attain moksha because I don't want it. Dharma (conduct, duty) is more important to me.



There are many scriptures that express Guna and rebirth into "pious"** families.

**By "pious", I mean Hindu - born into a family that keeps the Vrata-rites and various Samskaras. First one that comes to mind is one of the Upanishads, from 600-400 BCE.

[sarcasm]How unfortunate, eh?[/sarcasm]

Yes Hindu not Indian Hindu. I have heard that this idea of needing to be Indian to be a "full fledged Hindu" was propagated by Christians and Muslims to help deter people from leaving their faith to join the ranks of the Hindu.

 

[Ekanta]

Are you saying that a person who (has)* to reincarnate as a Hindu being born into an Indian Hindu family in order to attain moksha is racist propaganda? Or, are you saying that to be a Hindu, period, that a person has to born in an Indian Hindu family is racist propaganda?

There is a mix up of the terms santana dharma and hindu. Anyone can adhere to sanatana dharma, whatever religion. "Hindu" can indicate sanatana dharma or etnicity. Hence, for moksha, etnicity is irrelevant. But sanatana dharma is essential for moksha.

There are many scriptures that express Guna and rebirth into "pious"** families.

I know, and thats no surprise as it gives better opportunitets.

**By "pious", I mean Hindu - born into a family that keeps the Vrata-rites and various Samskaras. First one that comes to mind is one of the Upanishads, from 600-400 BCE.

And here we go again... the mix up of hindu (etnicity) with sanatana Dharma wich is nothing but racism and complete missunderstanding of your own religion. The upanishads are written in India, but the message is universal. Brahman is universal, gunas are universal, pious families are everywhere. As a whole I can hence not agree with you. The only thing I can add is that, OK, India is the gold mine of spirituality on the earth, and its a great place to be reborn. But taken as a general rule its not correct.
And please... (sarcasm?) can we refer to the great sages of India when we interpret the upanishads and not your personal opinion?

 

[Poeticus]

And here we go again... the mix up of hindu (etnicity) with sanatana Dharma wich is nothing but racism and complete missunderstanding of your own religion.

Please tell me more about "my"...I mean our religion. You are very knowledgeable.

The upanishads are written in India, but the message is universal. Brahman is universal, gunas are universal, pious families are everywhere. As a whole I can hence not agree with you.

Um. I never made an affirmation.

The only thing I can add is that, OK, India is the gold mine of spirituality on the earth, and its a great place to be reborn.

Um. No it's not. True spirituality is found within one's self. It doesn't matter if the person is born in India or on Jupiter or Mars.

And please... (sarcasm?) can we refer to the great sages of India when we interpret the upanishads and not your personal opinion?

Boy, you have this whole thing misunderstood. I apologize for any dumb Indian Hindus that may have bullied you. But, you've got to stop thinking that I am doing the same. Re-read my posts.

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you think moksha is attainable by other religions? If so which ones?

Which other religions speak of it?

 

[Kalidas]

Which other religions speak of it?

I am not entirely sure if speaking of it is necessary. Maybe they are all unknowingly striving for the same goal? Maybe a Christian who is trying to have a better relationship with God "stumbles upon it."

This is a whole other question I didn't pose. Must someone knowingly reach for moksha to attain it? Or is it possible to be reaching without knowing. Like your favorite analogy the mountain . What if someone is trying to get some where else entirely but they end up on the top because the path they chose did lead there?

 

[Ekanta]

Please tell me more about "my"...I mean our religion. You are very knowledgeable.

Thanks! But since you mix up hindu, Santana Dharma, family, pious and samskaras and God knows what else in a big soup, its hard to know what you are talking about.

**By "pious", I mean Hindu - born into a family that keeps the Vrata-rites and various Samskaras. First one that comes to mind is one of the Upanishads, from 600-400 BCE.

What do you mean by pious, hindu, rites and samskaras? An ethnic hindu or hinduism or universal righteousness?
The way I have responded so far seems logical and if thats wrong, I'd have to say its because of your wording.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am not entirely sure if speaking of it is necessary. Maybe they are all unknowingly striving for the same goal? Maybe a Christian who is trying to have a better relationship with God "stumbles upon it."

This is a whole other question I didn't pose. Must someone knowingly reach for moksha to attain it? Or is it possible to be reaching without knowing. Like your favorite analogy the mountain . What if someone is trying to get some where else entirely but they end up on the top because the path they chose did lead there?

Yes, the vocabulary might change. It might. But only in mystical branches of any faith is the idea even at all similar, as far as I know. and I certainly don't know much. I'm not much of a religion studier.

 

[Poeticus]

Ekanta,

Brother. There was nothing inconsistent in my wording. I requested you to go back to the OP.

The OP, himself, made it clear that he could have worded it differently because it was vague and unclear - written in haste.

Then, you replied with a statement expressing displeasure at the racist views sprouted by various Hindu groups. I truly think that you misunderstood what the OP was asking. It was you that brought up the racial card.

I can guarantee that no one thought about Indians or Nepalese or Pakistani Hindus or Bangladeshi Hindus etc. etc. when they were reading this thread.

I pointed out that in the OP there was no necessary-need expressed, to which I asked how you came to "has to". I can't proceed because you have still yet to answer that question for me.

And, what do you mean by "universal righteousness"? Is that what Sanatana Dharma means to you? What does Hindu mean to you?

Also, you said that there are no scriptures that express agreement with being born in an Hindu family. I clearly said that there are. But, you mistakingly took that as my personal opinion or as a self-justification for an assumed notion that non-Indians can't be Hindus or whatever it is that you were thinking. That was not what I was trying to say. You simply made a claim that Hindu scriptures do not agree with rebirth into a Hindu family, and all I did was simply contest that claim by pointing out that there are a few scriptures that profess admiration for being born into a Hindu family. But, the whole concept of "Hindu" and Sanatana Dharma is subjective.

You clearly misunderstood my words and all I did was point out fallacies in your postings. There was no need to paint me as a racist if that is what you were doing.

Ask anyone in the HinduDIR. I am one of the biggest advocates for people of all backgrounds becoming Hindu/Sanatani by their own accord.

- - - - - - -

Dear OP,

Look what your vague question did to this thread. It made a mole hill out of nothing. Next time, take sufficient time before posting something. It's all your fault. It's all your fault. It's all your fault. Muahahaha!

 

[Ekanta]

I understand now that somehow magically I should have interpreted "reincarnate as a Hindu" as "anyone adhering to hinduism". :sarcastic

 

[Poeticus]

I understand now that somehow magically I should have interpreted "reincarnate as a Hindu" as "anyone adhering to hinduism". :sarcastic

Putting your sarcastic tone to the side:

Well, that's subjective in and of itself, Ekanta.

Because, you could have been reincarnated as a Balinese Hindu, as a Bangladeshi Hindu, as a Pakistani Hindu, as an Afghani Hindu (yes they exist), as an Ukrainian, Russian, Irish, Swedish, etc. etc. etc. Hindu (Iskconite/Krishna Bhakta).

I still don't understand what you mean by "has to". Expand on that for me, will ya please?

 

[Ekanta]

I still don't understand what you mean by "has to". Expand on that for me, will ya please?

Searching the thread from start, I find that its you who introduces the "has to", hence I have not clue what you mean.