Monopolies

[PureX]

What do you think about monopolies such as Amazon, Disney and, perhaps to an extent, Twitter? Would you prefer them broken up?

Amazon is not a retailer. It's not buying and reselling. As long as Amazon isn't setting prices (like Walmart does) and remains just an online access enabler between buyers and sellers, I don't consider it a monopoly. Or a problem. If they start gouging their users, someone will create an alternative.

Disney doesn't create and sell anything that anyone cannot easily live without. So it is basically a luxury market. Which means it cannot become a proper monopoly because we can simply decide not to buy what they sell if they try to price-gouge us. And the same is true of Twitter. So these particular examples are not good examples of a monopoly. A good example of a monopoly would be a privatized 'public' utility company. Because they are operating in a very clear and obviously captive market, where the buyers have to "buy or die" and there is no alternative utility company for them to buy from. Leaving their one and only utility provider to charge whatever it wants for the minimum product and service and everyone living in their area will have to pay them because they need it to live.

Health care services, medicines, fuels, transportation, communication, education, housing, and food... these are all captive markets because humans have to buy them, now, to live in a large, modern, inter-dependent society. And these are the markets that invite monopoly and are now effectively being monopolized.

These are the real modern day monopolies: the corporate conglomerates that people never see the face of, but only see the many names and logos under their control.

We go the the store and see all these different brand names on the shelves and we think they are all competing with each other for our business, keeping the prices low and the quality high. But in fact they are all owned and controlled by one or two giant corporate conglomerates that are seeking to exploit our ignorance for their profit. And even when they are competing with each other, they still aren't going to lower prices and raise quality because NONE OF THEM have that as their goal. Their goal is just the opposite. So all competition does is make them cautious as they mutually raise their prices and cut their quality. Because that is their ultimate goal. In fact, if they could find a way to charge us every penny we have, and give us NOTHING in return, that would be their ultimate "trade". Because that's an absolute maximum profit for them.

 

[Secret Chief]

A monopoly is a market phenomenon. Government is not.

Rocket science huh

 

[Twilight Hue]

What do you think about monopolies such as Amazon, Disney and, perhaps to an extent, Twitter? Would you prefer them broken up?

I would love to see extensions, subsidiaries, and restructuring of those monopolies eliminated. Facebook is a good example with its Meta alter ego.

Having the ability of sister companies under different unrelated names to exist should meet the chopping block and remain with only one identification and purpose.

Also the elimination of corporations as people would temper monopolies significantly.

 

[halbhh]

It's kinda cute that you think people can just take Amazon to court without bankrupting themselves in the process, or that Amazon don't have a permanent team of lawyers employed to look for legal loopholes they can exploit.

In 2017...which is a LOOOOONG time ago when you're talking about a company that has grown like Amazon...they employed a legal department of more than 800 permanent employees, of which more than 400 were lawyers.
The way monopolies win is that they become so powerful, they can make the rules enforcing equitable access and protection a joke, quite frankly.

I'd encourage you to watch the John Oliver video in the earlier link, if you haven't. It's as much to amuse as inform, but even at a simple level, there is a pretty stark message to take in on Amazon (as an example).

I'm not that cynical to think that regardless of the legal heft Amazon can bring, that the eventual judgements of courts depend on how many lawyers one can hire. Sure, one would need to have an idealistic lawyer that is willing to speculatively work on it without being sure how long until a favorable settlement comes.

 

[exchemist]

By the way, on the subject of Amazon, does anyone else experience the same fear as I do, of finding myself accidentally signing up to Amazon Prime? On the occasions when I reluctantly decide I have to use Amazon to get something, I have the devil of a job trying to avoid signing on for a "free trial" of bloody Prime.

If you do get on a free trial by mistake, as I once did, you have to jump through a lot of hoops to find the obscure backdoor that enables you to turn the damned thing off before the trial period expires, otherwise they start taking money from your bank account every month, for ever.

In the UK there used to be a law against "inertia selling", meaning the (mal)practice of of giving you something for a temporary "free trial" and charging you if you did nothing to cancel. I am mystified as to why this law cannot be used to stop this iniquitous practice by Jeff Penis-Features* Bezos.


*You may think this harsh, but let's just say Bezos would be well advised to avoid roll-neck sweaters.

And as for his spacecraft, well.......my son and I christened it Bellend One.

 

[Secret Chief]

What do you think about monopolies such as Amazon, Disney and, perhaps to an extent, Twitter? Would you prefer them broken up?

As an expert in economics, I don't think they are monopolies. A monopoly is a market structure that consists of only one seller or producer. (Yes, I just googled it).

What amazon sell I can buy elsewhere, I can watch films not made by disney, I can communicate publicly without twitter. Whether or not I do is my choice. In a monopoly there is not a choice.

 

[Secret Chief]

By the way, on the subject of Amazon, does anyone else experience the same fear as I do, of finding myself accidentally signing up to Amazon Prime? On the occasions when I reluctantly decide I have to use Amazon to get something, I have the devil of a job trying to avoid signing on for a "free trial" of bloody Prime.

If you do get on a free trial by mistake, as I once did, you have to jump through a lot of hoops to find the obscure backdoor that enables you to turn the damned thing off before the trial period expires, otherwise they start taking money from your bank account every month, for ever.

In the UK there used to be a law against "inertia selling", meaning the (mal)practice of of giving you something for a temporary "free trial" and charging you if you did nothing to cancel. I am mystified as to why this law cannot be used to stop this iniquitous practice by Jeff Penis-Features* Bezos.


*You may think this harsh, but let's just say Bezos would be well advised to avoid roll-neck sweaters.

And as for his spacecraft, well.......my son and I christened it Bellend One.

Meh, you're just old
I've opted for prime twice to get something I needed quickly then immediately cancelled it. It didn't seem "backdoor" to me, old timer.

 

[exchemist]

Rocket science huh

Erm, well, our poster sometimes seems to get things a little confused.......

 

[exchemist]

Meh, you're just old
I've opted for prime twice to get something I needed quickly then immediately cancelled it. It didn't seem "backdoor" to me, old timer.

Heh heh.

Admittedly this was some years ago. They may have made it easier to cancel now - possibly even due to threats of action under inertia selling legislation, which I see, having looked it up, remains a feature of both UK and EU consumer protection law. But, once bitten twice shy, I make damned sure now that I avoid the default, which always seems to be offered, of signing up for a trial of Prime. This involves seeking out the tiny blue writing that says if you want to proceed without Prime click here

 

[Valjean]

What about the biggest monopoly of all, government?

If we left al the regulation, enforcement, public safety, &c entirely up to individuals we'd have chaos, misery, and stone-age level poverty, wouldn't we?

 

[Secret Chief]

Heh heh.

Admittedly this was some years ago. They may have made it easier to cancel now - possibly even due to threats of action under inertia selling legislation, which I see, having looked it up, remains a feature of both UK and EU consumer protection law. But, once bitten twice shy, I make damned sure now that I avoid the default, which always seems to be offered, of signing up for a trial of Prime. This involves seeking out the tiny blue writing that says if you want to proceed without Prime click here

Yes, you're right about being led but it is easy to opt out (I think there's even a link on the email you get when the trial is due to end). I'm not on commission here, but my partner has Prime and we've watched a heck of a lot of free stuff from being with it (including BBC stuff that's not on iplayer). I'd say we get our money's worth from that alone, aside from things like dodging P&P.

 

[Valjean]

Lots of problems. And yet we can vote out the ruling party, so we have SOME level of agency.

Very little, though, when the monopolists choose -- and own -- the candidates.
"I don't care who does the electing, as long as I get to do the nominating."
--- Boss Tweed

 

[Revoltingest]

What do you think about monopolies such as Amazon, Disney and, perhaps to an extent, Twitter? Would you prefer them broken up?

Those aren't monopolies.
I deal with their competition regularly.

 

[Valjean]

Can't we all live in close-knit communities of communes with unions providing opt-in standards for various industries?

SOCIALISM!!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

After all, anything you can get on Amazon can also be bought through other channels

Maybe for physical goods, but definitely not for digital media and Amazon does also have their own product line so it's getting even bigger. Amazon's music library is getting closer to on par with Spotify and the quality is better. The Kindle has many things you can't get elsewhere and it does blow wide open your potential reading selection. Even the video line has some things going for it, though it's not much compared to Netflix.
Disney makes a much better example, in my opinion, because it's very hard to avoid them in their own "home turf" markets and have expanded outwards into related markets and businesses.

 

[Revoltingest]

Can't we all live in close-knit communities of communes with unions providing opt-in standards for various industries?

You've never met my neighbors.
(You think I'm a jerk? Hah! There's a reason that
I'm here talking to you instead of those bozos.)
No one would want to form a commune with them.
I prefer dealing with far flung people of my own choosing.

 

[PureX]

I would love to see extensions, subsidiaries, and restructuring of those monopolies eliminated. Facebook is a good example with its Meta alter ego.

Having the ability of sister companies under different unrelated names to exist should meet the chopping block and remain with only one identification and purpose.

Also the elimination of corporations as people would temper monopolies significantly.

Propose any of that in the Congress or the Senate and you will witness an amazing non-partisan howl of outrage. Suggest price caps to stop the current price gouging and you'll see the same total and unanimous rejection. The hold these giant conglomerates have over our government is near absolute. Every single politician in elected office owes their job, their retirement, and their bank account to those corporate conglomerate's lobbying money. EVERY ONE of them.

 

[HonestJoe]

Shopping and media.

I've not shopped on Amazon for months and I've never used Twitter for "media" at all. They're certainly not monopolies at anything like such a general level, if at all.

Note that I'm not saying these companies business practices are necessarily good (or sometimes, even legal), I just think we need to be clear and honest about what the problems actually are if they're going to be addressed.

Unless, of course, this is just empty moaning.

 

[Rival]

I've not shopped on Amazon for months and I've never used Twitter for "media" at all. They're certainly not monopolies at anything like such a general level, if at all.

Note that I'm not saying these companies business practices are necessarily good (or sometimes, even legal), I just think we need to be clear and honest about what the problems actually are if they're going to be addressed.

Unless, of course, this is just empty moaning.

I was watching a short documentary about Disney and how it owns tens of companies such as Fox, Pixar, Marvel etc. and wondered what people thought about it, that's all. I fail to see how Disney isn't a monopoly when you will likely end up using it at some point for something media based. It also has its fingers in political pies.

Companies You Didn't Realize Disney Owns (insider.com)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Amazon is not a retailer.

They actually are.