Monotheists: convince me your god exists

[Rational Agnostic]

Greetings Abrahamic Monotheists:

As an agnostic, I haven't ruled out the possibility that god(s) may exist. However, I am extremely skeptical about the existence of god(s) particularly the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god for the following reasons. I'd like to see what Abrahamic monotheists have to say about these reasons, and if they can offer any refutations to any of the reasons, or any faults in my reasoning (I see none).

1. I can't see him, smell him, touch him, taste him, or hear him.----this is a biggy....when I am told that a being exists, I expect that I should be able to verify its existence with my senses. I am told that God's existence is an incontrovertible fact. Why can't I shake his hand?

2. I've tried talking to him, but he never responds----I have prayed at various times in my life when I was religious, and attempted to speak to this entity. Generally, when speaking to an entity, one would expect a clear, communicative response (many characters in the books supposedly written by God were able to directly converse with him, so why can't I?).

3. People say he's written books, yet all of his books are written by man----this one is huge. In essence, why does your god need prophets, scribes, and preachers to write down and spread "his word" for him? If God exists, why in the world would he make "his words" be indistinguishable from the writings of ancient nomads?

4. Large-scale "miracles" never occur today-----A god who is capable of making bread fall from the sky, parting oceans, speaking in a loud voice, etc. would certainly be apparent in one's everyday life. However, none of these types of miracles have been documented since the invention of video cameras. Why was God so wildly active in the world in ancient times when his actions could never be accurately documented, but nowadays, he never shows up and simply wants us to just trust the ancient scribes?

5. Religions have to use scare tactics to retain members-----Why is the punishment for disbelief (at least in Christianity) eternal hellfire? How in the world does skepticism about the existence of a concept for which the evidence is lacking warrant eternal torture? Also, why is the threat of "hell" even needed to convince people to believe? If there were substantial evidence, threats would be unnecessary.

 

[Kemosloby]

A skeptic needs to wait for until God comes back, in order to believe. So just grab a chair and wait. Like Thomas you won't believe until you see with your own eyes.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Greetings Abrahamic Monotheists:

As an agnostic, I haven't ruled out the possibility that god(s) may exist. However, I am extremely skeptical about the existence of god(s) particularly the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god for the following reasons. I'd like to see what Abrahamic monotheists have to say about these reasons, and if they can offer any refutations to any of the reasons, or any faults in my reasoning (I see none).

1. I can't see him, smell him, touch him, taste him, or hear him.----this is a biggy....when I am told that a being exists, I expect that I should be able to verify its existence with my senses. I am told that God's existence is an incontrovertible fact. Why can't I shake his hand?

2. I've tried talking to him, but he never responds----I have prayed at various times in my life when I was religious, and attempted to speak to this entity. Generally, when speaking to an entity, one would expect a clear, communicative response (many characters in the books supposedly written by God were able to directly converse with him, so why can't I?).

3. People say he's written books, yet all of his books are written by man----this one is huge. In essence, why does your god need prophets, scribes, and preachers to write down and spread "his word" for him? If God exists, why in the world would he make "his words" be indistinguishable from the writings of ancient nomads?

4. Large-scale "miracles" never occur today-----A god who is capable of making bread fall from the sky, parting oceans, speaking in a loud voice, etc. would certainly be apparent in one's everyday life. However, none of these types of miracles have been documented since the invention of video cameras. Why was God so wildly active in the world in ancient times when his actions could never be accurately documented, but nowadays, he never shows up and simply wants us to just trust the ancient scribes?

5. Religions have to use scare tactics to retain members-----Why is the punishment for disbelief (at least in Christianity) eternal hellfire? How in the world does skepticism about the existence of a concept for which the evidence is lacking warrant eternal torture? Also, why is the threat of "hell" even needed to convince people to believe? If there were substantial evidence, threats would be unnecessary.

Do you want to know god?

If so, whose god do you want to know?

 

[_nameX]

you have to seek and keep seeking. pray and keep praying. have faith, know that what he has spoken shall come to pass.

 

[jeager106]

faith1
/fāTH/ trust, belief, confidence, conviction, optimism, hopefulness;
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Proof that God exists?
Right off hand I can't do that.
Ergo why FAITH is essential.
If someone doesn't understand the concept of faith...........................well
that is beyond my meager ability to help them.
In my mind believing is a choice.
You consider, perhaps study a bit, read a lot, talk to others, and make a
decision. Believe or not.
Choice you see. We humans are allowed to choose.
I believe choice is a gift from God but that's an opinion of mine worth nothing.
Note some of the words above that define faith.
trust and hopefulness are the words that have the best meaning and more
important MAKE meaning for me.
For me it would be awful, empty, hollow, in a world with no hope, no trust,
no Super Spirit of the universe to pray to, believe in.
When all else fails, when one has lost all, when there is no other there
for you, God takes on serious meaning.
Perhaps you've never "been there". I have and without my faith in God
I may not have survived to be writing this here.
I doubt any mere mortal can convince another that God exists.
A question. What if the miracles in the Bible really DID happen?
What if Jesus did live and die for us then rose again?
Perhaps some need to see that on the 6 o'clock news.
Even then many would scoff and doubt.
Hell man I KNOW a few that swear man never landed on the Moon.
So it goes.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Greetings Abrahamic Monotheists:

As an agnostic, I haven't ruled out the possibility that god(s) may exist. However, I am extremely skeptical about the existence of god(s) particularly the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god for the following reasons. I'd like to see what Abrahamic monotheists have to say about these reasons, and if they can offer any refutations to any of the reasons, or any faults in my reasoning (I see none).


1. I can't see him, smell him, touch him, taste him, or hear him.----this is a biggy....

If you see 'HELP' written with rocks on a deserted island beach, no evidence of anyone ever being there, do you suspect the random action of the waves?

2. I've tried talking to him, but he never responds----I have prayed at various times in my life when I was religious, and attempted to speak to this entity. Generally, when speaking to an entity, one would expect a clear, communicative response (many characters in the books supposedly written by God were able to directly converse with him, so why can't I?).

I would say that like many, I did get a clear communicative response, but obviously this isn't something I can offer as evidence to you or anyone else.

However I only received this after I first believed- did you really believe for yourself when you prayed?, or were you looking to have that belief given to you?

3. People say he's written books, yet all of his books are written by man----this one is huge. In essence, why does your god need prophets, scribes, and preachers to write down and spread "his word" for him? If God exists, why in the world would he make "his words" be indistinguishable from the writings of ancient nomads?

The most widely read, published, influential book in the history of mankind, I think that's consistent with divine influence.- but again it has to be a personal discovery, how else could it work? You can't force a person to have faith in you and love you.

4. Large-scale "miracles" never occur today-----A god who is capable of making bread fall from the sky, parting oceans, speaking in a loud voice, etc. would certainly be apparent in one's everyday life. However, none of these types of miracles have been documented since the invention of video cameras. Why was God so wildly active in the world in ancient times when his actions could never be accurately documented, but nowadays, he never shows up and simply wants us to just trust the ancient scribes?

Total eclipse of the sun this year if you are in N America!

5. Religions have to use scare tactics to retain members-----Why is the punishment for disbelief (at least in Christianity) eternal hellfire? How in the world does skepticism about the existence of a concept for which the evidence is lacking warrant eternal torture? Also, why is the threat of "hell" even needed to convince people to believe? If there were substantial evidence, threats would be unnecessary.

You are free to reject it entirely, But most free thinking humanity believes in God. Atheism gained it's largest influence only where religion was oppressed, e.g. in USSR, N Korea, Communist China. And where religious oppression recedes, faith invariably returns.[/QUOTE]

 

[Rational Agnostic]

faith1
/fāTH/ trust, belief, confidence, conviction, optimism, hopefulness;
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Proof that God exists?
Right off hand I can't do that.
Ergo why FAITH is essential.
If someone doesn't understand the concept of faith...........................well
that is beyond my meager ability to help them.
In my mind believing is a choice.
You consider, perhaps study a bit, read a lot, talk to others, and make a
decision. Believe or not.
Choice you see. We humans are allowed to choose.
I believe choice is a gift from God but that's an opinion of mine worth nothing.
Note some of the words above that define faith.
trust and hopefulness are the words that have the best meaning and more
important MAKE meaning for me.
For me it would be awful, empty, hollow, in a world with no hope, no trust,
no Super Spirit of the universe to pray to, believe in.
When all else fails, when one has lost all, when there is no other there
for you, God takes on serious meaning.
Perhaps you've never "been there". I have and without my faith in God
I may not have survived to be writing this here.
I doubt any mere mortal can convince another that God exists.
A question. What if the miracles in the Bible really DID happen?
What if Jesus did live and die for us then rose again?
Perhaps some need to see that on the 6 o'clock news.
Even then many would scoff and doubt.
Hell man I KNOW a few that swear man never landed on the Moon.
So it goes.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I think differently than you in the sense that I do not see belief as a choice; I see it as an uncontrollable state of mind that is a function of evidence and the way the mind interprets evidence. For instance, few of us could "choose" to believe that the moon is made of cheese or that reindeer can fly no matter how badly we wanted to make that choice. The absence of evidence in favor of these propositions (as well as the massive amounts of evidence against them) forces us to disbelieve in them, all desires aside. Am I saying belief in God is akin to belief in these nonsensical ideas? No, but I am using them as illustration for why I believe it is not possible to "choose" what we believe in. I am glad that your faith in God has had a positive impact on your life. I also understand the value of believing in a higher power when life becomes unbearable. However, I do not think that I could simply make a "choice" to believe in something for which I see very little evidence in favor of.

 

[jeager106]

@Hubert Farnsworth
I would absolutely hate to live in such a way to demand proof of the intangible.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

@Hubert Farnsworth
I would absolutely hate to live in such a way to demand proof of the intangible.

Can't say I'm demanding proof, just abundant evidence which seems to be lacking. But each to his own. I can respect your faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can't say I'm demanding proof, just abundant evidence which seems to be lacking. But each to his own. I can respect your faith.

I can't. What he described is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

@Hubert Farnsworth
I would absolutely hate to live in such a way to demand proof of the intangible.

Rather than the high bar of "proof", how about the lower, very reasonable bar of "good justification"?

There's nothing wrong with not believing until you have a good reason to believe.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I can't. What he described is nothing more than wishful thinking.

You are being a bit too harsh in my opinion. Sometimes people need a bit of wishful thinking to get through life. Even Carl Sagan said "If it takes a little myth and ritual to get us through a night that seems endless, who among us cannot sympathize and understand?"

 

[2X4]

Greetings Abrahamic Monotheists:

As an agnostic, I haven't ruled out the possibility that god(s) may exist. However, I am extremely skeptical about the existence of god(s) particularly the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god for the following reasons. I'd like to see what Abrahamic monotheists have to say about these reasons, and if they can offer any refutations to any of the reasons, or any faults in my reasoning (I see none).

1. I can't see him, smell him, touch him, taste him, or hear him.----this is a biggy....when I am told that a being exists, I expect that I should be able to verify its existence with my senses. I am told that God's existence is an incontrovertible fact. Why can't I shake his hand?

2. I've tried talking to him, but he never responds----I have prayed at various times in my life when I was religious, and attempted to speak to this entity. Generally, when speaking to an entity, one would expect a clear, communicative response (many characters in the books supposedly written by God were able to directly converse with him, so why can't I?).

3. People say he's written books, yet all of his books are written by man----this one is huge. In essence, why does your god need prophets, scribes, and preachers to write down and spread "his word" for him? If God exists, why in the world would he make "his words" be indistinguishable from the writings of ancient nomads?

4. Large-scale "miracles" never occur today-----A god who is capable of making bread fall from the sky, parting oceans, speaking in a loud voice, etc. would certainly be apparent in one's everyday life. However, none of these types of miracles have been documented since the invention of video cameras. Why was God so wildly active in the world in ancient times when his actions could never be accurately documented, but nowadays, he never shows up and simply wants us to just trust the ancient scribes?

5. Religions have to use scare tactics to retain members-----Why is the punishment for disbelief (at least in Christianity) eternal hellfire? How in the world does skepticism about the existence of a concept for which the evidence is lacking warrant eternal torture? Also, why is the threat of "hell" even needed to convince people to believe? If there were substantial evidence, threats would be unnecessary.

You simply haven't been called by God yet and used for his purpose.

Romans 9:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

[pearl]

I've tried talking to him, but he never responds----I have prayed at various times in my life when I was religious, and attempted to speak to this entity. Generally, when speaking to an entity, one would expect a clear, communicative response (many characters in the books supposedly written by God were able to directly converse with him, so why can't I?).

You talk to much. You must learn to be still.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You simply haven't been called by God yet and used for his purpose.

Romans 9:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Ahh, the Calvinist response. You are one of "God's chosen people" while I am a "vessel of wrath," right?

 

[2X4]

Ahh, the Calvinist response. You are one of "God's chosen people" while I am a "vessel of wrath," right?

You and I are IN GOD but it's obvious you haven't learned that yet. Don't worry, you will know who you are IN GOD after all the enemies have been destroyed.

 

[David T]

Greetings Abrahamic Monotheists:

As an agnostic, I haven't ruled out the possibility that god(s) may exist. However, I am extremely skeptical about the existence of god(s) particularly the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god for the following reasons. I'd like to see what Abrahamic monotheists have to say about these reasons, and if they can offer any refutations to any of the reasons, or any faults in my reasoning (I see none).

1. I can't see him, smell him, touch him, taste him, or hear him.----this is a biggy....when I am told that a being exists, I expect that I should be able to verify its existence with my senses. I am told that God's existence is an incontrovertible fact. Why can't I shake his hand?

2. I've tried talking to him, but he never responds----I have prayed at various times in my life when I was religious, and attempted to speak to this entity. Generally, when speaking to an entity, one would expect a clear, communicative response (many characters in the books supposedly written by God were able to directly converse with him, so why can't I?).

3. People say he's written books, yet all of his books are written by man----this one is huge. In essence, why does your god need prophets, scribes, and preachers to write down and spread "his word" for him? If God exists, why in the world would he make "his words" be indistinguishable from the writings of ancient nomads?

4. Large-scale "miracles" never occur today-----A god who is capable of making bread fall from the sky, parting oceans, speaking in a loud voice, etc. would certainly be apparent in one's everyday life. However, none of these types of miracles have been documented since the invention of video cameras. Why was God so wildly active in the world in ancient times when his actions could never be accurately documented, but nowadays, he never shows up and simply wants us to just trust the ancient scribes?

5. Religions have to use scare tactics to retain members-----Why is the punishment for disbelief (at least in Christianity) eternal hellfire? How in the world does skepticism about the existence of a concept for which the evidence is lacking warrant eternal torture? Also, why is the threat of "hell" even needed to convince people to believe? If there were substantial evidence, threats would be unnecessary.

How does a person who builds a $100 million building modeled after an oil tamker, with dinosaurs and Jesus on it wake up in the morning and is even able to tie his shoes? How is Ken ham who isn't even wrong he is so wrong function say to day? How does a scientist with a straight face claim that reality is based on non dimensional point like particles? How can a mathematician even breathe he is so stupid in claiming math determines the strength of a 2"x 4"x ' 8' board? How do these very different aNd yet very self deluded un self aware individuals even function they are so clueless? There is from the beginning of time till the end of time always always a deeper narrative than either science math or religion.most monotheists are lost in fantasy that's "NORMAL".

 

[pearl]

You talk to much. You must learn to be still.

I ought to have offered an explanation to what may have seem quite rude. Sometimes the meaning is clearer in poetry.

A lover pressed his suit unsuccessfully for many months, suffering the atrocious pain of rejection. Finally his sweetheart yielded. "Come to such and such a place, at such and such an hour." At that time and place the lover finally found himself seated beside his beloved. He then reached into his packet and pulled out a sheaf of love letters that he had written to her over the past months. They were passionate letters, expressing the pain he felt and his burning desire to experience the delights of love and union. He began to read them to his beloved. The hours passed by but still he read on and on. Finally the woman said, 'What kind of a fool are you? These letters are all about me and your longing for me. Well, here I am sitting with you at last and you are lost in your stupid letters.

"Here I am with you," says God, "and you keep reflecting about me in your head, talking about me with your tongue, and searching for me in your books. When will you shut up and see?" de Mello

 

[Sully]

I like to think of Biblical Prophesy as God's introduction. The Old Testament contains over 60 major prophesies of the coming Messiah (Jesus) hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. Josh McDowell in his book "More than a Carpenter" puts the probably of one person fulfilling only 48 of the 61 prophesies as 1:10E157 or 1 in 10 to the 157 power.

The Messiah would be of the lineage of Seth, then Abraham, then Isaac, Jacob, 12 sons (the 12 Tribes of Israel) of those the Messiah would come from the lineage of Juda...then the Messiah would be of the lineage of Jessie, then of her son David. Then you take that much narrowed possibility and add the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. The Book of Daniel further gives the exact day of Christ's arrival centuries before Jesus rode into Jerusalem and for the first time publically accepted the role of Messiah. For more info on this read "The Coming Prince" by Sir Robert Anderson.

Jesus of Nazareth was born into the Jewish world and proclaimed himself as the Messiah 483 years after the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem was issued. In the year 30 C. E., Jesus was executed by crucifixion. Daniel indicated that he would be cut off, not for himself, but rather for others. Isaiah 53 also prophesied the death of the Messiah, pointing out that he would die a substitutionary death on behalf of his people Israel. The teaching of the New Covenant is that Jesus died a penal death by taking upon himself the penalty of the Law as a substitute for his people. In keeping with Daniel 9:24, he died for the purpose of making an atonement for sins. Then Jesus himself proclaimed we would be resurrected 3 days after his crucifixion. These are just a few of God's calling cards there are many more

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I like to think of Biblical Prophesy as God's introduction. The Old Testament contains over 60 major prophesies of the coming Messiah (Jesus) hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. Josh McDowell in his book "More than a Carpenter" puts the probably of one person fulfilling only 48 of the 61 prophesies as 1:10E157 or 1 in 10 to the 157 power.

The Messiah would be of the lineage of Seth, then Abraham, then Isaac, Jacob, 12 sons (the 12 Tribes of Israel) of those the Messiah would come from the lineage of Juda...then the Messiah would be of the lineage of Jessie, then of her son David. Then you take that much narrowed possibility and add the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. The Book of Daniel further gives the exact day of Christ's arrival centuries before Jesus rode into Jerusalem and for the first time publically accepted the role of Messiah. For more info on this read "The Coming Prince" by Sir Robert Anderson.

Jesus of Nazareth was born into the Jewish world and proclaimed himself as the Messiah 483 years after the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem was issued. In the year 30 C. E., Jesus was executed by crucifixion. Daniel indicated that he would be cut off, not for himself, but rather for others. Isaiah 53 also prophesied the death of the Messiah, pointing out that he would die a substitutionary death on behalf of his people Israel. The teaching of the New Covenant is that Jesus died a penal death by taking upon himself the penalty of the Law as a substitute for his people. In keeping with Daniel 9:24, he died for the purpose of making an atonement for sins. Then Jesus himself proclaimed we would be resurrected 3 days after his crucifixion. These are just a few of God's calling cards there are many more

The fact that the NT parallels the OT is not evidence of fulfilled prophecy, since the NT authors could have easily written the text in such a manner as to intentionally appear to be a fulfillment of prophecy.